NEW NARRATIVE ON TYROD

[twoandfourteen]

26 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Of the QBs who have started at least 15 games from 2015 to 2017 I have him 19th out of 39. ANY/A would put him 18th, Passer Rating would put him 15th.

 

Great. I'm curious to see who the 20 guys behind him are, but you don't have to waste your time posting that. 

 

However, I'm talking about the 40-50 guys playing QB on teams in the NFL heading into the 2018 season. By "better", I'm looking at their overall value -- talent, potential, past performance, etc. 

 

I also just realized I forgot about Mahomes in KC. So there's 37 guys who are "better" than Tyrod Taylor in the NFL right now. 

 

Edit -- also forgot about Winston in TB, so now it's 38.

 

 

Edited August 28, 2018 by twoandfourteen

[BuffaloHokie13]

11 minutes ago, twoandfourteen said:

Great. I'm curious to see who the 20 guys behind him are, but you don't have to waste your time posting that. 

 

However, I'm talking about the 40-50 guys playing QB on teams in the NFL heading into the 2018 season. By "better", I'm looking at their overall value -- talent, potential, past performance, etc. 

 

I also just realized I forgot about Mahomes in KC. So there's 37 guys who are "better" than Tyrod Taylor in the NFL right now. 

[Teddy KGB]

11 hours ago, COTC said:

And why did Beane trade our starting QB away with no backup plan?

 

hes in WAY over his head. 

 

Did you sleep through last season ?   Taylor was cringeworthy bad. 

 

He’s gone for a reason 

Edited August 28, 2018 by Teddy KGB

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, twoandfourteen said:

 

Great. I'm curious to see who the 20 guys behind him are, but you don't have to waste your time posting that. 

 

However, I'm talking about the 40-50 guys playing QB on teams in the NFL heading into the 2018 season. By "better", I'm looking at their overall value -- talent, potential, past performance, etc. 

 

I also just realized I forgot about Mahomes in KC. So there's 37 guys who are "better" than Tyrod Taylor in the NFL right now. 

 

Edit -- also forgot about Winston in TB, so now it's 38.

 

 

I'll take PFR over your opinion. His AV value was 23rd overall in the NFL in 2016 - a season in which after 15 games the Bills' offense ranked 7th in yards, 10th in points, and first in fewest turnovers given up (he of course was benched for the final game). This occurred in a season in which they Hogan had left, Watkins was mostly hurt, and Woods was playing with a torn groin. The Bills' offense was 9th in DVOA in 2015 and 10th in 2016 -- their best showings since 1999. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&year_min=2016&year_max=2016&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&league_id=&team_id=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos_is_qb=Y&pos_is_rb=Y&pos_is_wr=Y&pos_is_te=Y&pos_is_e=Y&pos_is_t=Y&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_ol=Y&pos_is_dt=Y&pos_is_de=Y&pos_is_dl=Y&pos_is_ilb=Y&pos_is_olb=Y&pos_is_lb=Y&pos_is_cb=Y&pos_is_s=Y&pos_is_db=Y&pos_is_k=Y&pos_is_p=Y&c1stat=&c1comp=gt&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5comp=&c5gtlt=lt&c6mult=1.0&c6comp=&order_by=av&draft=0&draft_year_min=1936&draft_year_max=2015&type=&draft_round_min=0&draft_round_max=99&draft_slot_min=1&draft_slot_max=500&draft_pick_in_round=0&draft_league_id=&draft_team_id=&college_id=all&conference=any&draft_pos_is_qb=Y&draft_pos_is_rb=Y&draft_pos_is_wr=Y&draft_pos_is_te=Y&draft_pos_is_e=Y&draft_pos_is_t=Y&draft_pos_is_g=Y&draft_pos_is_c=Y&draft_pos_is_ol=Y&draft_pos_is_dt=Y&draft_pos_is_de=Y&draft_pos_is_dl=Y&draft_pos_is_ilb=Y&draft_pos_is_olb=Y&draft_pos_is_lb=Y&draft_pos_is_cb=Y&draft_pos_is_s=Y&draft_pos_is_db=Y&draft_pos_is_k=Y&draft_pos_is_p=Y

 

I realize you're an anti-Taylor crusader, but come on. I wish him well. He's a decent, likable player who is a true gamer despite not being elite. 

Edited August 28, 2018 by dave mcbride

[SouthNYfan]

6 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I'll take PFR over your opinion. His AV value was 23rd overall in the NFL in 2016 - a season in which after 15 games the Bills' offense ranked 7th in yards, 10th in points, and first in fewest turnovers given up (he of course was benched for the final game). This occurred in a season in which they Hogan had left, Watkins was mostly hurt, and Woods was playing with a torn groin. The Bills' offense was 9th in DVOA in 2015 and 10th in 2016 -- their best showings since 1999. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&year_min=2016&year_max=2016&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&league_id=&team_id=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos_is_qb=Y&pos_is_rb=Y&pos_is_wr=Y&pos_is_te=Y&pos_is_e=Y&pos_is_t=Y&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_ol=Y&pos_is_dt=Y&pos_is_de=Y&pos_is_dl=Y&pos_is_ilb=Y&pos_is_olb=Y&pos_is_lb=Y&pos_is_cb=Y&pos_is_s=Y&pos_is_db=Y&pos_is_k=Y&pos_is_p=Y&c1stat=&c1comp=gt&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5comp=&c5gtlt=lt&c6mult=1.0&c6comp=&order_by=av&draft=0&draft_year_min=1936&draft_year_max=2015&type=&draft_round_min=0&draft_round_max=99&draft_slot_min=1&draft_slot_max=500&draft_pick_in_round=0&draft_league_id=&draft_team_id=&college_id=all&conference=any&draft_pos_is_qb=Y&draft_pos_is_rb=Y&draft_pos_is_wr=Y&draft_pos_is_te=Y&draft_pos_is_e=Y&draft_pos_is_t=Y&draft_pos_is_g=Y&draft_pos_is_c=Y&draft_pos_is_ol=Y&draft_pos_is_dt=Y&draft_pos_is_de=Y&draft_pos_is_dl=Y&draft_pos_is_ilb=Y&draft_pos_is_olb=Y&draft_pos_is_lb=Y&draft_pos_is_cb=Y&draft_pos_is_s=Y&draft_pos_is_db=Y&draft_pos_is_k=Y&draft_pos_is_p=Y

 

I realize you're an anti-Taylor crusader, but come on. I wish him well. He's a decent, likable player who is a true gamer despite not being elite. 

 

He has perpetually stated that he is talking about after last season, and at this current moment, yet you continue to bring up 2016 statistics.

NOBODY IS TALKING ABOUT 2016.

[dave mcbride]

11 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

He has perpetually stated that he is talking about after last season, and at this current moment, yet you continue to bring up 2016 statistics.

NOBODY IS TALKING ABOUT 2016.

Um ... no. The person I'm responding to (not you) cited a record of failure over 3 seasons. See the previous page and my initial response. That's what I'm reacting to. That poster than shifted the goalposts and starting referring to his fantasy draft as a source of authority.

[Teddy KGB]

20 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

 who is a true gamer despite not being elite. 

 

Thats a lie.   Gamers show up for big games 

[dave mcbride]

Just now, Teddy KGB said:

 

Thats a lie.   Gamers show up for big games 

Gamers are players who gut it out and play hurt, don't complain, and don't cause internal problems. Clutch players show up for big games. I never said he was a clutch player. It's a flaw of his and makes him average instead of good. 

[SouthNYfan]

2 hours ago, twoandfourteen said:

 

Great. I'm curious to see who the 20 guys behind him are, but you don't have to waste your time posting that. 

 

However, I'm talking about the 40-50 guys playing QB on teams in the NFL heading into the 2018 season. By "better", I'm looking at their overall value -- talent, potential, past performance, etc. 

 

I also just realized I forgot about Mahomes in KC. So there's 37 guys who are "better" than Tyrod Taylor in the NFL right now. 

 

Edit -- also forgot about Winston in TB, so now it's 38.

 

 

 

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

Um ... no. The person I'm responding to (not you) cited a record of failure over 3 seasons. See the previous page and my initial response. That's what I'm reacting to. That poster than shifted the goalposts and starting referring to his fantasy draft as a source of authority.

 

Reading is hard.

[COTC]

10 hours ago, KD in CA said:

 

Actually, he traded him away with a starting AND backup plan.

What happened to our starter and backup? Were they cut?? The scrubs we have now are exactly that. Bench warmers and a rookie. 

 

So what exactly was the plan other than sacrifice he year?

[Big Gun]

1 minute ago, COTC said:

What happened to our starter and backup? Were they cut?? The scrubs we have now are exactly that. Bench warmers and a rookie. 

 

So what exactly was the plan other than sacrifice he year?

Hah, not going to be hard to improve upon the 31st ranked passing attack. There is a reason TT is gone, open your eyes.

[dave mcbride]

4 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

 

Reading is hard.

Apparently not as hard as reading what I was initially responding to. Via an attack on Taylor, he flat out stated that the Bills had the worst passing attack in the league for three seasons. That is unequivocally false. That's what I was responding to, and the fact that he shifted the conversation to his fantasy league because he didn't have a legitimate answer doesn't obviate the initial (flawed) point that was made. 

 

Anyway, you're arguing with me for sticking to my guns regarding a longer body of work, which was clearly part of the conversation -- until it wasn't. I'm not letting that go because the argument about Taylor (from both sides, pro and con) hinges on a longer view. 

Edited August 28, 2018 by dave mcbride

[COTC]

Just now, pop gun said:

Hah, not going to be hard to improve upon the 31st ranked passing attack. There is a reason TT is gone, open your eyes.

Why is he gone? Couldn’t he of competed with the rookie?

 

 our o-cord got  fired, it would’ve been a fresh start for both. 

 

Now we are stuck once again in qb pergatory while we wait a year for Allen to develop. And look at who’s developing him. Not smart. 

[SouthNYfan]

5 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Apparently not as hard as reading what I was initially responding to. Via an attack on Taylor, he flat out stated that the Bills had the worst passing attack in the league for three seasons. That is unequivocally false. That's what I was responding to, and the fact that he shifted the conversation to his fantasy league because he didn't have a legitimate answer doesn't obviate the initial (flawed) point that was made. 

 

Anyway, you're arguing with me for sticking to my guns regarding a longer body of work, which was clearly part of the conversation -- until it wasn't. I'm not letting that go because the argument about Taylor (from both sides, pro and con) hinges on a longer view. 

 

And your most recent responses, which I quoted with his, were in response to him stating that currently there are 30+ QBs who teams would not trade straight up for Tyrod.

Then you started bringing in prior seasons.

 

[Wagon Circler]

Peterman will be a significant improvement on Tyrod.

At a much lower cost. ?

[Big Gun]

6 minutes ago, COTC said:

Why is he gone? Couldn’t he of competed with the rookie?

 

 our o-cord got  fired, it would’ve been a fresh start for both. 

 

Now we are stuck once again in qb pergatory while we wait a year for Allen to develop. And look at who’s developing him. Not smart. 

Purgertory is your opinion, I happen to think Peterman or McCarron will be an improvement to the 31st passing attack from last year.

[BuffaloHokie13]

1 minute ago, pop gun said:

Purgertory is your opinion, I happen to think Peterman or McCarron will be an improvement to the 31st passing attack from last year.

I guess we'll see if they can move the ball and score points or not.

[C.Biscuit97]

2 minutes ago, Wagon Circler said:

Peterman will be a significant improvement on Tyrod.

At a much lower cost. ?

And that was clearly proven true last year in one of the worst starts in nfl history.

 

i was not a Tyrod fan but this narrative that he was terrible and anyone is an improvement is completely false.

[COTC]

16 minutes ago, pop gun said:

Purgertory is your opinion, I happen to think Peterman or McCarron will be an improvement to the 31st passing attack from last year.

 

Our old GM admited the year before last that we were in qb purgatory. Our qb current situation is worse. 

 

We are in pergatory until the rookie develops, face it, this is a developmental/ sacrificial  year. 

Edited August 28, 2018 by COTC

[Big Gun]

6 minutes ago, COTC said:

 

Our old GM admited the year before last that we were in qb purgatory. Our qb current situation is worse. 

 

We are in pergatory until the rookie develops, face it, this is a developmental/ sacrificial  year. 

Says who?

[dave mcbride]

40 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

And your most recent responses, which I quoted with his, were in response to him stating that currently there are 30+ QBs who teams would not trade straight up for Tyrod.

Then you started bringing in prior seasons.

 

No, my initial response referred to the three years (see below), but as I said above, I did not change the subject from that three-year assessment. Others may have, but I didn't. Evaluating Taylor, who is still young, requires taking a longer view and not simply looking at last season when he had awful receivers and a terrible OC. He didn't play well himself either (although he least took care of the ball), but 2017 is only one piece in a larger body of work. 

 

[SouthNYfan]

8 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

No, my initial response referred to the three years (see below), but as I said above, I did not change the subject from that three-year assessment. Others may have, but I didn't. Evaluating Taylor, who is still young, requires taking a longer view and not simply looking at last season when he had awful receivers and a terrible OC. He didn't play well himself either (although he least took care of the ball), but 2017 is only one piece in a larger body of work. 

 

 

Except he is referring to last year specifically.

He is 29 which is not young for a running QB who's game is predicted on his athleticism

If he was so good then why was the only offer a 3rd round pick from the Browns?

[KD in CA]

1 hour ago, COTC said:

What happened to our starter and backup? Were they cut?? The scrubs we have now are exactly that. Bench warmers and a rookie. 

 

So what exactly was the plan other than sacrifice he year?

 

Maybe it was to build a team that has the potential to someday be better than average.

 

I know this four year run of winning seven to nine games per year seems pretty glorious compared to the 6-10 era, but it's possible they may be aiming higher.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

And that was clearly proven true last year in one of the worst starts in nfl history.

 

i was not a Tyrod fan but this narrative that he was terrible and anyone is an improvement is completely false.

Tyrod  had season RAT of 89.2   and a QBR of  56.4.  A sack % of 9.9     1 of every 10 drop backs.  Nearly 4 sacks per game and  one 4th QTR comeback.

 

Those are not #'s for a good starter to have.  

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Tyrod is better than anything we have right now. It's not even close. 

 

Please stop.

practice what you preach.  

 

Tyrod failed  and now,  he's not only in QB purgatory, he's in QB hell!

 

I'd take sucking with Josh or Nate or AJ and I'm damn glad he's gone.  

 

[SouthNYfan]

21 minutes ago, KD in CA said:

 

Maybe it was to build a team that has the potential to someday be better than average.

 

I know this four year run of winning seven to nine games per year seems pretty glorious compared to the 6-10 era, but it's possible they may be aiming higher.

 

People would rather settle for mediocrity.

 

8 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Tyrod  had season RAT of 89.2   and a QBR of  56.4.  A sack % of 9.9     1 of every 10 drop backs.  Nearly 4 sacks per game and  one 4th QTR comeback.

 

Those are not #'s for a good starter to have.  

 

Especially when he was due what? $18milly?

Please.

Dude had his chance.

Amazes me how people act like we traded away the greatest QB in Bills history.

 

The Knights of Taylor will defend him to the death, yet when confronted with one simple question, they have no answer:

 

If he was so amazing, why, in a passing, QB-centric league, where the best teams year in, year out, rely on a good passing attack, was NOBODY willing to pony up in a trade for him, and the only team that was, gave up nothing more than a 3rd round pick, then STILL drafted a QB #1 overall?

 

The answer is easy, but the Tyrod lovers won't admit it.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

17 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

We know you are. We ALL know you are. 

 

 

Its not hate Scott.    It was the accumulation of 3 years of frustration ! 

 

I promise to be nicer to Josh Allen. 

 

Can't I be granted forgiveness Cardinal Scott?  (of the CoT)

 

 

Edited August 28, 2018 by ShadyBillsFan

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

On 8/27/2018 at 12:46 PM, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

........oddly, the Bills were one of the pioneers with black QB's ala James Harris and Marlin "The Magician" Briscoe".......yet TT was not  accepted here because of skin color?...go figure.....

 

For the record, Lou Saban sent both Harris and Briscoe packing when he came into town in 1972, leaving the Bills with a sore-armed Dennis Shaw and such Titans of the Pivot as Mike Taliaferro and Leo Hart that year, until forced to start rookie Joe Ferguson in 1973. And why? Because (as Marlin Briscoe, who had been demoted from QB by Saban in Denver already) Saban would not play a black QB. Imagine how much better the team would have been with Harris in 72 and 73....

 

That's racism at work there. Not in Tyrod's case, where he had multiple chances to justify further faith.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

8 minutes ago, RJ (not THAT RJ) said:

 

For the record, Lou Saban sent both Harris and Briscoe packing when he came into town in 1972, leaving the Bills with a sore-armed Dennis Shaw and such Titans of the Pivot as Mike Taliaferro and Leo Hart that year, until forced to start rookie Joe Ferguson in 1973. And why? Because (as Marlin Briscoe, who had been demoted from QB by Saban in Denver already) Saban would not play a black QB. Imagine how much better the team would have been with Harris in 72 and 73....

 

That's racism at work there. Not in Tyrod's case, where he had multiple chances to justify further faith.

 

..thanks for clarification......never really remembered that side of Saban......wondered if that ever entered into Ralph's disdain for him for so long......fleeing the coop was certainly a factor..........

[26CornerBlitz]

Whoa! Like moths to a flame this should gather all of the Taylor "fans"   

 

 

[Gugny]

26 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

Whoa! Like moths to a flame this should gather all of the Taylor "fans"   

 

 

 

"Nick Wright is the co-host of First Things First on FS1 and is a regular contributor to FS1’s studio shows. Wright joined FOX Sports following successful a four-year tenure at Houston’s KILT 610 AM, where he hosted the morning drive show “In the Loop with Nick and Lopez.” Prior to his time in Houston, Wright began his career at Kansas City’s KCSP 610 AM."

 

This is why we don't care.  He's not in any !@#$ing loop to speak of.  He never even got to FM, for Christ's sakes.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

For the True Tyrod fans  (I found this when looking for a JA giffy)    She's heartbroken they traded TT.   

 

[Teddy KGB]

20 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Tyrod is better than anything we have right now. It's not even close. 

 

Please stop.

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

2 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

That in a nutshell

 

 

pun intended 

 

LOL 

[26CornerBlitz]

[Bills757]

On 8/23/2018 at 8:31 PM, Wagon Circler said:

I heard it today on NFL network and just now from Joe Buck.

"He played under two defensive minded coaches and never had an opportunity to cut it loose."

OMG!

This is Cleveland propaganda. Always amazing to me how little the national media knows.

Or maybe the national media knows how Billsy the Buffalo fans can be.

 

For the life of me, I don't understand why this fan base can't focus on the future rather than start yet another thread about a player who 1) doesn't play in Buffalo anymore and 2) did nothing but represent the franchise in the most professional way possible during his time in Buffalo.  

Edited August 29, 2018 by Bills757