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BurpleBull

Beane's Counterbalance to Missing on Josh Allen: Great Trades, Drafting, and Free Agent Pickups.

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On 7/16/2018 at 10:02 AM, SoTier said:

 

That's an amazingly ignorant statement.   Current year draft picks aren't chopped liver, and giving up top notch young veterans who have already been signed to multi-year contracts aren't, either.   The Bills gave up a cartload of picks to move into position to take a QB, and it's likely that at least 2 or 3 of those picks will turn out to be good or maybe even great pro players which the Bills won't have going forward for 3-5 years and maybe more.  How is that NOT "mortgaging the future"?

 

The only way that the Glenn trade won't set the Bills back several years is if Glenn is finished, Dawkins continues to progress, and Allen is a stud.  If Glenn is finished and Allen is a flop, it's a wash.   If Dawkins doesn't improve from his rookie performance -- and not infrequently good rookies don't develop into better players -- then the Bills have a gaping hole at LT and still have a below average RT (the position that Dawkins was drafted to fill) which will impact both their passing and running games going forward -- and Allen's prospects for success.

 

 

Well said.  Bills fans buy into the myth that Glenn was "washed up" because of injury because they want to believe that the Bills FO is doing a good job.  However, the reality is that  Glenn's injury issues only began about mid-2016, and that he basically had one injury that lingered, probably because Glenn/the Bills took a conservative approach to it rather than immediately opting for surgery.  In hindsight, that was a mistake but nobody knew that in 2016 or 2017.

 

 

It's a little early to declare the 2017 trade a "steal" for anybody.

  • It will be all KC if Mahomes is a stud and Allen is not, even if Allen becomes a decent NFL starter on a level with Dalton or Flacco.
  • It will be a wash or slightly favoring KC if Mahomes and Allen are about the same.  Yes, the Bills got White, but Milano isn't anything special and Edmunds is unproven.  More importantly, the Bills gave up a whole lot more to get Allen than the Chiefs gave up to get Mahomes.
  • Only Mahomes being a bust while Allen becomes a decent NFL will give the Bills the advantage in this trade.
  • It will be a steal for the Bills only if Allen becomes a near elite NFL QB while Mahomes does not.

 

 

Lol. How do you reach these determinations?

 

Tre'Davious White is already the steal of that trade. He was nearly named defensive rookie of the year and was selected 17 draft spots after Mahomes was selected 10th overall.

 

If Mahomes bombs then Kansas City lose out in the trade.

 

If Mahomes lives up to expectations then it was a win for both clubs, but if Allen plays at a Pro Bowl level and White continues his high level of play then the Bills win the trade outright.

 

How does Milano even factor in to this?

Edited by BurpleBull

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16 hours ago, BurpleBull said:

 

He was saying that he doesn't trust McDermott as an evaluator of offensive talent, but it was McDermott who was largely thought of as being responsible for the 2017 draft that netted Dion Dawkins, Zay Jones, and Nathan Peterman.

 

So there's small evidence that suggests he's an overall good evaluator of talent.

 

Ah, McDermott? Still way too early to say that he isn't good at evaluating guys on the offense. As you point out, Dawkins so far at least seems like a great pickup, Peterman has been good so far for a fifth-rounder and Zay Jones hasn't done enough as a 2nd rounder, but it's way too early to count out a 2nd year WR.

 

Just doesn't make any sense at all to say that he can't evaluate offensive talent. The worst you could say is that he has spent few resources on the offense and that he would get an incomplete because it's too early to count out anyone yet. And Dawkins looks like a great pick.

 

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11 hours ago, Green Lightning said:

Bodine is durable, maybe that's because he spends so much time getting  pushed around. He's not depth, he's in the mix to start, which would be a downgrade on the OL. If Shady is out, we are in a world of  crap on offense, Hell, we may be already. I really feel McBeane made a major miscalculation on offense. 

2

The offensive line is an area where I think this FO feel surprisingly short in the draft and in free agency. Particularly when they just drafted a rookie QB and have a second year QB too.

I realize you can't fill every roster hole in one draft or offseason so I'm also hoping that this FO doesn't make the very same mistake that killed past regimes in the thinking that you can get by with later round picks for the offensive line. Buddy Nix and his lame idea that any tackle can play guard and any big body can play tackle.

 

It took Rex Ryan to see that the team needed upgrades at the offensive guard position so not only did he take a chance on Incognito when no other team would. That choice worked out well and the line would have been so much better had Ryan been able to sign undrafted FA La'el Collins who he wined and dined before he signed with Dallas. We all saw what a difference a pro bowl guard in Incognito can make to a team as he instantly helped make Woods and Glenn look so much better. 

 

BTW, Collins before the 2015 draft was graded as a possible top ten prospect, that is until it was announced he was to be questioned by the police about the shooting death of a woman he had a relationship with in the past. 

 

I'm still holding out hope that one day the Buffalo Bills with build a top offensive line like they had for their super bowl runs. Like they had for their 60's AFL championship wins. Like they basically had for every year they made the playoffs. Then again, I would really want lines like those 60 championship years in that every player was a pro bowler and even some were 1st team all pros. 

 

Stew Barber, Billy Shaw, Dave Behrman, Al Bemiller, Dick Hudson.

 

 

 

 

 

  • Thanks 1

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19 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

You just dont get it do you (I doubt if you ever will)

 

It was NOT a questionable pick.......a questionable pick is taking a QB in a draft where it was widely known was a poor QB draft.

 

This was WIDELY speculated to be a special QB draft.......and they traded assets (without giving up their other 1st round pick (edmunds) or FUTURE first round picks.....

 

That means that if the bills wanted to they could go QB in the very next draft (I really hope they do NOT do this....and instead get a weapon to pear with Allen)

 

It is not a EJ Manuel situation at all....

Well....THIS group has had exactly one pick which was Tre sooooooooo.

 

The quality of individual players in any draft is not determined by either the other players in that draft or by the hype spread by media talking heads. 

  • In the 1983 draft, the greatest QB class ever by result not by ratings of talking heads, produced 3 HOFs plus a decent NFL starter.  The KC Chiefs still managed to pick an absolute bust in Todd Blackledge, the second QB taken.
  • In the second best QB class ever, 2004, produced first round QBs Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger ... and JP Losman.  Losman was not a first round prospect,  and being drafting in the first round with three other QBs who are likely HOF candidates didn't make him any better or worse than he was.

FYI, the last time I looked, finding good DBs is a lot easier than finding good QBs.  If Mahomes turns out to be a stud and Allen does not, the Bills will have screwed themselves once more ... just as they did in 2009 when they gave away All Pro LT Jason Peters or in 2010 when they gave away All Pro RB Marshawn Lynch.

 

18 hours ago, MJS said:

 

What did you have to say about the secondary last off-season? Probably nothing good. Everyone thought it was a huge problem. Now we consider it to be one of the best secondaries in the league.

 

In other words, shut up and watch the games. Nobody knows how it will turn out.

 

If you don't like my opinions, don't read them or put me on ignore but don't dare tell me -- or any other poster -- to "shut up". 

 

FTR, the Bills do not have "one of the best secondaries in the league" but feel free to make up BS to justify your uncritical fandom for a team that's produced only 20 winning seasons in 58 years.

 

 

 

Edited by SoTier

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16 hours ago, Green Lightning said:

Bodine is durable, maybe that's because he spends so much time getting  pushed around. He's not depth, he's in the mix to start, which would be a downgrade on the OL. If Shady is out, we are in a world of  crap on offense, Hell, we may be already. I really feel McBeane made a major miscalculation on offense. 

 

From what I could tell from minicamp, it seems the position is wide open just as is the case with most other positions that don't have a player's name etched in stone there. 

 

I think Ryan Groy began seeing more 1st team reps as camp went on; I think he will end up being favored to win the position just based off how liked he was by the sometimes hard- to-please Bills' fans when he was backing Wood, as well as his increase in 1st team reps.

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On 7/2/2018 at 5:38 PM, C.Biscuit97 said:

Agreed but if Mahomes is a stud and Allen isn’t, it wasn’t worth it.  

Mahomes won’t be a stud.

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3 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

The quality of individual players in any draft is not determined by either the other players in that draft or by the hype spread by media talking heads. 

  • In the 1983 draft, the greatest QB class ever by result not by ratings of talking heads, produced 3 HOFs plus a decent NFL starter.  The KC Chiefs still managed to pick an absolute bust in Todd Blackledge, the second QB taken.
  • In the second best QB class ever, 2004, produced first round QBs Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger ... and JP Losman.  Losman was not a first round prospect,  and being drafting in the first round with three other QBs who are likely HOF candidates didn't make him any better or worse than he was.

FYI, the last time I looked, finding good DBs is a lot easier than finding good QBs.  If Mahomes turns out to be a stud and Allen does not, the Bills will have screwed themselves once more ... just as they did in 2009 when they gave away All Pro LT Jason Peters or in 2010 when they gave away All Pro RB Marshawn Lynch.

 

 

If you don't like my opinions, don't read them or put me on ignore but don't dare tell me -- or any other poster -- to "shut up". 

 

FTR, the Bills do not have "one of the best secondaries in the league" but feel free to make up BS to justify your uncritical fandom for a team that's produced only 20 winning seasons in 58 years.

 

 

 

2 things

 

So you think you know which of these qbs is gonna bust?   Based on what?   Why is your resume not into a NFL team?

 

second

 

We DO in fact have one of the best secondaries in the league

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14 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

Ah, McDermott? Still way too early to say that he isn't good at evaluating guys on the offense. As you point out, Dawkins so far at least seems like a great pickup, Peterman has been good so far for a fifth-rounder and Zay Jones hasn't done enough as a 2nd rounder, but it's way too early to count out a 2nd year WR.

 

Just doesn't make any sense at all to say that he can't evaluate offensive talent. The worst you could say is that he has spent few resources on the offense and that he would get an incomplete because it's too early to count out anyone yet. And Dawkins looks like a great pick.

 

 

The Bills have actually added pieces to the offense through free agency and the draft, (Kerley, McCloud, Proehl, Foster, Streater, etc.), I think the issue with most who feel not enough has been done on offense, is that they aren't big splash additions.

 

I feel the Bills FO is playing this out very patiently, allowing Daboll to get a real feel for what he has at his disposal before committing bigger bucks on offensive players.

 

 I think this upcoming season the Bills will try to draw out as much as possible from the offense given what they have to work with within Daboll's system, but that next year's draft will cater more towards the offense.

 

You can't blame McDermott for continuing to fortify the defense.

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11 minutes ago, BurpleBull said:

 

The Bills have actually added pieces to the offense through free agency and the draft, (Kerley, McCloud, Proehl, Foster, Streater, etc.), I think the issue with most who feel not enough has been done on offense, is that they aren't big splash additions.

 

I feel the Bills FO is playing this out very patiently, allowing Daboll to get a real feel for what he has at his disposal before committing bigger bucks on offensive players.

 

 I think this upcoming season the Bills will try to draw out as much as possible from the offense given what they have to work with within Daboll's system, but that next year's draft will cater more towards the offense.

 

You can't blame McDermott for continuing to fortify the defense.

sounds trite , but Rome was not built on a Sunday in the fall.
McBeanes via McDermott had a vision that Defense was the first priority as it was Sean's area of expertise i might guess. I think this seasons work solidified my opinion.
Even though they have made some efforts to bolster the Offense over two seasons , it remains incomplete. And that could be an understatement  : )
Long row to hoe building this team. I think the defense is formidable and will competitive at the top level with this years additions. albeit an never ending work in progress.
Offense is surely trailing.
I respect the decision for what it is.

 Good post Burple

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6 minutes ago, BurpleBull said:

 

The Bills have actually added pieces to the offense through free agency and the draft, (Kerley, McCloud, Proehl, Foster, Streater, etc.), I think the issue with most who feel not enough has been done on offense, is that they aren't big splash additions.

 

I feel the Bills FO is playing this out very patiently, allowing Daboll to get a real feel for what he has at his disposal before committing bigger bucks on offensive players.

 

 I think this upcoming season the Bills will try to draw out as much as possible from the offense given what they have to work with within Daboll's system, but that next year's draft will cater more towards the offense.

 

You can't blame McDermott for continuing to fortify the defense.

 

...just some OTAG "senior moment yap" but I'll try it anyway.....CERTAINLY McD's background is defense.....but why would Daboll accept the OC job if he knew the offense would play "second fiddle" personnel wise and focus wise as part of the overall 'winning plan"?.....where the hell are we going if the premise is the "D" will do all of the heavy lifting and perhaps the offense can kick the winning FG in a 10-7 "barn burner"?....no way in hell I'd take the OC job...

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7 hours ago, BurpleBull said:

 

From what I could tell from minicamp, it seems the position is wide open just as is the case with most other positions that don't have a player's name etched in stone there. 

 

I think Ryan Groy began seeing more 1st team reps as camp went on; I think he will end up being favored to win the position just based off how liked he was by the sometimes hard- to-please Bills' fans when he was backing Wood, as well as his increase in 1st team reps.

Let's hope, but don't forget that Groy and Bodine are both in the mix for starting at Center and/or at left guard. So they both may end up starting.

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7 minutes ago, Green Lightning said:

Let's hope, but don't forget that Groy and Bodine are both in the mix for starting at Center and/or at left guard. So they both may end up starting.

Then it would be Groy @ Guard and Bodine @ Center in my humble opinion based upon their individual experiences

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On 7/2/2018 at 4:30 PM, C.Biscuit97 said:

Allen missed more games in college than Rosen.

 

Hence why injury isnt the reason we passed on Rosen...him being a deuche causing coach-ability and leadership questions is why SEVERAL teams passed on him.  Even the team that finally drafted him at 10 had their eye on Allen first.  

 

Time will tell who was right or wrong, but this injury narrative doesn't tell the accurate story of why he slid behind 3 other QBs and was never in consideration at #1 despite so many arm chair peeps here insisting he is the best QB in the class.  It factored in, and was from the season he didn't finish...but add in the character concerns, and it equates to teams looking at other prospects before him.  

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