Grade the OL

[3rdand12]

14 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

 

Lol we'll see. The grass isn't always greener... We thought losing Rex our offense would improve too (since he was a "defensive-minded" coach) but it didn't. Losing Kromer was what really hurt.

no question about we do not know what the future brings and change is a calculated risk.

 I don't even have deck chairs on my beachfront. But i sure wish we had Kromer and Roman some games last year

[Rocky Landing]

I'm not going to vote in this, but my take?

Dawkins, LT- solid.

Mills, RT- might be much improved with a QB who doesn't stretch the pocket, and move around as much as Tyrod did.

Bodine, C- If McD thinks he's better than Groy, I hope he's right.

Miller, RG- I am cautiously optimistic that he will turn into a solid RG. He's smart, and I thought had a decent rookie season before being derailed by personal issues.

Ducasse, LG- Could there be a worse drop in talent than going from Gog to Duc?

[Bill from NYC]

22 hours ago, joesixpack said:

 

Theyve taken an ol in the past two drafts, bill.

In 2002 they used a first round pick on a lineman (Mike Williams). In 2009 (the year they traded their all pro left tackle) they used a first rounder on Wood, pick #28. Those were the first round picks that they used on blockers in this century. They focused mainly on rbs and defensive backs.

 

If you wish to defend this you should. I cannot and I find it disgraceful. Jmo.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

21 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

In 2002 they used a first round pick on a lineman (Mike Williams). In 2009 (the year they traded their all pro left tackle) they used a first rounder on Wood, pick #28. Those were the first round picks that they used on blockers in this century. They focused mainly on rbs and defensive backs.

 

If you wish to defend this you should. I cannot and I find it disgraceful. Jmo.

 

Contrary to your opinion, you CAN find good blockers outside of round one.

 

See: Dawkins, D and peters, J. First rounders should be used on skill players, not linemen (with the exception of DE)
 

 

Edited June 29, 2018 by joesixpack

[Bill from NYC]

5 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

Contrary to your opinion, you CAN find good blockers outside of round one.

 

See: Dawkins, D and peters, J. First rounders should be used on skill players, not linemen (with the exception of DE)
 

 

Well sure Joe, look at the heights it has taken us to!!!

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, Bill from NYC said:

Well sure Joe, look at the heights it has taken us to!!!

 

You're acting as though taking blockers in round one is a guaranteed path to the super bowl.

Mike Williams was a sterling example of that particular bit of folly.

 

[thebandit27]

1 hour ago, Bill from NYC said:

In 2002 they used a first round pick on a lineman (Mike Williams). In 2009 (the year they traded their all pro left tackle) they used a first rounder on Wood, pick #28. Those were the first round picks that they used on blockers in this century. They focused mainly on rbs and defensive backs.

 

If you wish to defend this you should. I cannot and I find it disgraceful. Jmo.

 

Greetings my friend...I hope you're doing well.

 

It's worth noting that the team spent 2nd round picks in 2012, 2014, and 2017 on the OT position, and also spent a 3rd rounder in 2015 (which happened to be their 2nd pick in that draft).  Again, it's not the lack of early investment that bothers me as much as it is that they allocated some of those resources poorly.

 

You and I both felt that the Kouandjio pick was destined to fail.  Meanwhile, Morgan Moses--who was selected 21 picks later--is heading into his 4th year as a starting RT.

 

I remember in 2015 thinking that Daryl Williams was the right pick in round 3, but they ended up with John Miller.  I said at the time he'd be a decent starter with limited upside, and that's just what he's been.

 

Extending Eric Wood during TC last year was a nice gesture, but ultimately a bad decision money-wise.  Had they simply let his contract play out, they'd be in the same situation personnel-wise, but would have an additional $8M in cap space that they could've used to bolster their front-5.

 

In short: you're right that the OL is a concern for the upcoming year.  I think that a creative OC would be able to scheme around it somewhat, but there's no question that a good portion of their $80M in cap space and 9 draft picks next offseason should (and likely will) be dedicated to bolstering the line.

[Bill from NYC]

1 hour ago, joesixpack said:

 

You're acting as though taking blockers in round one is a guaranteed path to the super bowl.

Mike Williams was a sterling example of that particular bit of folly.

 

The folly was drafting Williams, an overweight RT with a chronic ankle injury over McKinney, an excellent left tackle.

 

[Cripple Creek]

9 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

The folly was drafting Williams, an overweight RT with a chronic ankle injury over McKinney, an excellent left tackle.

 

Williams’ issues were related to desire. He didn’t appear to want to compete.

[John from Riverside]

5 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

The folly was drafting Williams, an overweight RT with a chronic ankle injury over McKinney, an excellent left tackle.

 

Yeah that was a mistake....McKenney all day

[Freddie's Dead]

C, 'cause LeShady.  Way too many question marks to go any higher.  Incomplete or withdrawal would also be appropriate.

[JohnC]

On 6/28/2018 at 9:54 AM, thebandit27 said:

 

In 3 of the last 5 drafts (and 5 of the last 7)--including 2018--the team has spent their 2nd pick on an OLmen

 

The issue hasn't been a lack of willingness to invest, but rather that they haven't been able to stick with a single offensive philosophy long enough for a unit of 5 to gain any type of consistency together.  Of course, I'd be remiss in saying that their relative lack of attention to the RT position has been an issue, but then again, they drafted Kouandjio/Henderson/Dawkins.

 

I'm most worried about the RT spot this year than any other area

You are right that the line lacks the overall talent to be a good OL. Players brought in on the cheap such as Bodine, Newhouse, and Ducasse are essentially patchwork players who fill in. And as you astutely noted the constant churning of staff and systems make it even more difficult to get players to fit the systems that are a constant state of flux. 

 

When McDermott was hired his intention wasn't to simply the elevate the play of the players he inherited. It was to significantly tear the roster down and rebuild it to reflect his vision of how a roster should be constructed. In my view this is a four year rebuild job. In one year he has dramatically altered the roster and is continuing with his cleanse and redo process. So it is not surprising that a defensively oriented coach initially focuses more on the defense than the offense. 

 

Tyrod Taylor had unique traits that severely impacted the OL's ability to pass block. Thus a qb that can make reads and more quickly release the ball will in of itself help the linemen when they pass block. On the flip side because Taylor was such a running threat he forced the defense to account for him. That lack of running threat is probably going to hurt in the running game. My point is obvious that how the qb plays will impact how the line performs. 

 

My general point is that it is difficult to address the needs of all your units at the same time. It's nearly impossible to do. The best that can be hoped for with this line is for it to play competently. With some coaching and system stability that is all you can ask for right now.  

[Bing Bong]

On 6/28/2018 at 5:46 AM, Cripple Creek said:

Today? Before they’ve taken a snap together? When a position or three are still in flux?

yes today while 1 are 3 are in flux lol, response alone sounds like a D.

[GunnerBill]

On 6/26/2018 at 8:03 PM, thebandit27 said:

Regarding the 2017 OL, I found this information from Football Outsiders interesting:

 

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/extra-points/2018/which-defenses-depended-non-pressure-sacks-2017

 

"Tyrod Taylor sure likes to run around a lot and try to make something happen, and sometimes he just runs out of time."

 

43% of the sacks allowed by Buffalo were deemed to be:

- Coverage Sacks

- Failed Scramble, which refers to sacks where the quarterback just takes off to run and doesn't make it past the line of scrimmage

- QB Fault, which refers to sacks where the quarterback just drops the ball or trips over his own feet without being touched by the defense

 

I haven't gone through the tape play by play and counted but this feels in the right ballpark from what I saw over the season. 

On 6/28/2018 at 3:54 PM, thebandit27 said:

 

In 3 of the last 5 drafts (and 5 of the last 7)--including 2018--the team has spent their 2nd pick on an OLmen

 

The issue hasn't been a lack of willingness to invest, but rather that they haven't been able to stick with a single offensive philosophy long enough for a unit of 5 to gain any type of consistency together. 

 

This. All this. Just as Miller emerged as a upper half of the league RG two years into his career.... scheme change, struggles, benched. 

 

Dawkins came on really nicely back end of his rookier year last year..  so what do we do? Switch blocking scheme on him.

[ALF]

The hope is for Daboll to keep OL as basic as possible till they find the best combination of players to be in sync.

 

Final cut down from other teams , free agency and draft in 2019 . I like Teller at LG once he is ready and Groy back at C.

 

Miller back at RG in his type of scheme. RT is still the ? mark . Just keep Allen on the bench till the OL  can pass protect.

[T master]

I'd say a B everyone is freaking out with Ritchie & Wood leaving but i think the moves made in the draft & FA along with who they had on the team they will be fine given a bunch of reps .

 

Also finding a replacement for Mills would be a step in the right direction !! I don't know what they see in this guy but its something that most all of the folks out side of the Bills that are writers of different articles that i have read don't see that's for sure !!