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Sad day. Tim Graham out at Buffalo News

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1 minute ago, sullim4 said:

I don’t agree with the comparison. A reporter is special in that their twitter feed is easily construed as part of their work product. Oftentimes they (including Tim) will tweet instead of writing a story.

 

I think the way Graham represents himself on Twitter is 100% fair game in terms of his evaluation as a reporter.

It shouldn't be, and if you are taking it that way then that is your problem and not his, unless you are critiquing his tweet that is an evaluation of a sports issue, and not an exchange with fans. Granted, I will give you the benefit of the doubt on they are not completely the same - the chef and the sportswriter - because the Chef's job of cooking has zero to do with typing words on Twitter. But it is the same thing because if a sportswriter is typing things on twitter it should be construed the same way the Chef's exchange with his fan base or customers or random obnoxious crapthrowers is: Nothing to do with how well he does his job.

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3 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

There are not a ton of good TV shows because they are hard to make.

 

And yet there remains a ton of TV shows. Why? Because there are enough people who will watch anything.

 

Graham will find another job, and life will go on, but because there is so much content out there, the reality is that he could never write another published word and you could count the number of people who would notice on the hand of a bad woodshop teacher.

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This is where we are in the Post-Truth Era.  The internet has democratized knowledge and, at the same time, made it very difficult for print media to turn a profit.  Writers are no longer sources of information like they used to be, and mainstream media as an institution has been under attack by lunatics on the fringes who think they know as much (if not more) than experts, intellectuals and reporters because, well, they read stuff online, and also by the supreme lunatic who sits at 1600 Penn.  Knowledge itself is under siege - there are no pure "facts" anymore.  Mix all that together with the anonymous Internet tough guys on a sports team message board, and you get a thread like this.

Edited by Coach Tuesday
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2 minutes ago, LABillzFan said:

 

And yet there remains a ton of TV shows. Why? Because there are enough people who will watch anything.

 

Graham will find another job, and life will go on, but because there is so much content out there, the reality is that he could never write another published word and you could count the number of people who would notice on the hand of a bad woodshop teacher.

There are a ton of teachers and there are a ton of good teachers, and it's a hard job. There are a ton of carpenters and there are a ton of good carpenters, and it's a hard job. There are a ton of politicians but there are relatively few good politicians, and it is a hard job. There are a ton of sportswriters but there are relatively few good sportswriters, and it is a hard job.

 

Graham is good at his job, which is a hard job, and which there are relatively few who do it consistently well, regardless of whether you hate him for his personality.

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3 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

This is where we are in the Post-Truth Era.  The internet has democratized knowledge and, at the same time, made it very difficult for print media to turn a profit.  Writers are no longer sources of information like they used to be, and mainstream media as an institution has been under attack by lunatics on the fringes who think they know as much (if not more) than experts, intellectuals and reporters because, well, they read stuff online, and also by the supreme lunatic who sits at 1600 Penn.  Knowledge itself is under siege - there are no pure "facts" anymore.  Mix all that together with the anonymous Internet tough guys on a sports team message board, and you get a thread like this.

 

I dont disagree with your concern, in general.

 

But specific to this thread and Tim Graham, what you read in here has a lot more to do with his personal interactions on this board and on social media, and how he handles himself.

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Just now, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I dont disagree with your concern, in general.

 

But specific to this thread and Tim Graham, what you read in here has a lot more to do with his personal interactions on this board and on social media, and how he handles himself.

I'm still trying to figure out how that bleeds into his stories on the Bills. I know it does, I'm just trying to figure out why people conflate those two things so much. Don't like him as a person or twitter persona. I get it. Shout it here and from the rooftops and right back at him on twitter (which will immediately get under his skin). But why does that have anything to do with what he writes in the News.

 

Put it this way, if Jerry Sullivan didn't have a byline that said "By Jerry Sullivan" at the top, you and most everyone here could make a good case to say, "That's Jerry Sullivan!" because his voice and persona can be seen in his stories. He's a columnist.

 

If Tim Graham didn't have a byline that said "By Tim Graham" pretty much the only way you could legitimately come on here and yell "That's Tim Graham!" would be because it was rather well written.

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I think it's very bad that the paper is destroying itself, but the timing of this and the Vic Carucci-related tweet are pretty suspicious. I mean, christ, Graham just did a huge suite of stories on Josh freaking Allen, the QB of the future, a guy who is going to be the centerpiece of Buffalo sports reporting for the next half decade. It certainly didn't look like he was being eased out. It may be the case,  however, that the newsroom was poisonous (not surprising given the layoffs) and he grabbed the new ESPN gig as soon as it became available to get out. Unlike JS and BG, he may actually have chosen to leave.

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But he uses his twitter feed as an extension of his journalism...so basically he is acting like a douche while at his job, wouldn't be too different if i sat in the hallway of my office building and made fun of my co-workers during business hours...sure i am not technically IN the office, but the hallway is an extension of it....i know its an over simplified example, but he clouded the lines...should have gone the brian colangelo route and gotten a couple burner accounts......oh wait...that didn't work out either.

 

1 hour ago, Kelly the Dog said:

I'll ask again, do you consider the Chef's twitter feed when he is cooking you dinner? Do you consider an actor's politics when he or she are performing in a movie or TV show? Do you consider a politician's favorite team when you discuss their politics? Take what he writes for the article's merit. There was nothing of Tim Graham's snarkiness in his terrific five part series on Josh Allen's roots. Zero point zero. 

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30 minutes ago, LABillzFan said:

 

And yet there remains a ton of TV shows. Why? Because there are enough people who will watch anything.

 

Graham will find another job, and life will go on, but because there is so much content out there, the reality is that he could never write another published word and you could count the number of people who would notice on the hand of a bad woodshop teacher.

I am calling BS on your line of argument here. This is an objectively good piece by a sportswriter, one that the Sal Capaccios of the world are incapable of writing because they either don't know jack about water politics in California or aren't curious enough to connect it to the player. http://buffalonews.com/2018/05/19/you-bloom-where-youre-planted-the-cultivation-of-josh-allen-part-1/

 

As for their being a ton of TV shows, what's your point? Is the world somehow just as a good a place if the shows all suck? Quality is a good thing in life.

 

Regardless, I wouldn't be surprised if these Allen pieces were an audition for a bigger and better job at an outlet that isn't currently self-imploding and in fact already went through it's personnel crisis (i.e., ESPN). 

 

It may be the case, of course, that the Carucci thing made him persona non grata there too. (And there may be a story behind that as well related to the other guys who are gone.)

Edited by dave mcbride

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1 hour ago, BuffaloRush said:

Too bad I think Tim is an exceptional writer.  I get why people don’t like on Twitter, but in his defense most of his rude tweets are in response to followers who either are trolling him or sending him harassing comments.  He rarely goes after someone who didn’t come at him first.

 

it doesn’t change the fact that he’s written some very stories and is highly regarded locally as one of the most well-informed sources in WNY

 

IMO I don’t think of this has to do with th Bennett tweet.  I think it’s all about cutting payroll to become more profitable next fiscal year.  

There was always a bit of Omar Little in him on Twitter...you come at the king, you best not miss...

 

I appreciated this, because it tugged back the veil of anonymity many users think they should be able to hide behind.  

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1 minute ago, The Poojer said:

But he uses his twitter feed as an extension of his journalism...so basically he is acting like a douche while at his job, wouldn't be too different if i sat in the hallway of my office building and made fun of my co-workers during business hours...sure i am not technically IN the office, but the hallway is an extension of it....i know its an over simplified example, but he clouded the lines...should have gone the brian colangelo route and gotten a couple burner accounts......oh wait...that didn't work out either.

 

I'm curious as to how. I have all of the News guys and jw and Lori and the Rochester guys and anyone who covers the Bills or Sabres anywhere on my Twitter feed, and I spend a lot of (read: way too much) time on Twitter - and while I see him trade barbs and go full Hannity on people at times, almost always because they start it, I don't see it as an extension of his journalism, even if he is commenting on something to do with writing or journalism or the Bills anymore than what Shady's twitter feed is an extension of his position of running back even if he's tweeting about a player or the NFL.

13 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I think it's very bad that the paper is destroying itself, but the timing of this and the Vic Carucci-related tweet are pretty suspicious. I mean, christ, Graham just did a huge suite of stories on Josh freaking Allen, the QB of the future, a guy who is going to be the centerpiece of Buffalo sports reporting for the next half decade. It certainly didn't look like he was being eased out. It may be the case,  however, that the newsroom was poisonous (not surprising given the layoffs) and he grabbed the new ESPN gig as soon as it became available to get out. Unlike JS and BG, he may actually have chosen to leave.

I didn't see him taking an ESPN gig. He left the News years ago for an ESPN gig, later went to Miami I think and then back to the Bills. But I haven't seen that he has a new job yet.

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2 hours ago, BillsFan17 said:

Sad? There is zero sad about that smug prick leaving 

 

I think he's a good writer and I've really enjoyed his feature pieces.

 

He is a thin-skinned member on twitter though

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5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think he's a good writer and I've really enjoyed his feature pieces.

 

He is a thin-skinned member on twitter though

It’s funny that a guy who’s job is largely criticizing others can’t take it himself.   I can’t stand people like that and it seems like a lot of people here couldn’t either. 

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when he uses his twitter feed to disseminate his BN work, he is representing BN, and he needs to stop the childish behavior. Lets face it, if he wasn't a journalist for the BN he would just be a twitter guy with 5 followers.  He used his 'status' as a professional journalist to build up his twitter universe, as a result he needs to act appropriately to the standards set forth by his employer.  And for the record, i don't think other start most of it....someone disagrees with a stance and he goes top rope, he is the one that takes that leap most of the time.  And for the record, i find his reporting to be very good...i always enjoy reading his work and have praised him on twitter many times for it....it's his alter ego, on the coattails of the BN, that I have my issues with.

 

5 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

I'm curious as to how. I have all of the News guys and jw and Lori and the Rochester guys and anyone who covers the Bills or Sabres anywhere on my Twitter feed, and I spend a lot of (read: way too much) time on Twitter - and while I see him trade barbs and go full Hannity on people at times, almost always because they start it, I don't see it as an extension of his journalism, even if he is commenting on something to do with writing or journalism or the Bills anymore than what Shady's twitter feed is an extension of his position of running back even if he's tweeting about a player or the NFL.

I didn't see him taking an ESPN gig. He left the News years ago for an ESPN gig, later went to Miami I think and then back to the Bills. But I haven't seen that he has a new job yet.

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Just now, The Poojer said:

when he uses his twitter feed to disseminate his BN work, he is representing BN, and he needs to stop the childish behavior. Lets face it, if he wasn't a journalist for the BN he would just be a twitter guy with 5 followers.  He used his 'status' as a professional journalist to build up his twitter universe, as a result he needs to act appropriately to the standards set forth by his employer.  And for the record, i don't think other start most of it....someone disagrees with a stance and he goes top rope, he is the one that takes that leap most of the time.  And for the record, i find his reporting to be very good...i always enjoy reading his work and have praised him on twitter many times for it....it's his alter ego, on the coattails of the BN, that I have my issues with.

 

I understand that but it is always when someone tweets to him first, 99% going after him. Then he ups the ante. I don't call that "using his feed to disseminate his BN" work - as a personal criticism - when he simply supplies links to his stories. That is what he is supposed to do.

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2 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

I'll ask again, do you consider the Chef's twitter feed when he is cooking you dinner? Do you consider an actor's politics when he or she are performing in a movie or TV show? Do you consider a politician's favorite team when you discuss their politics? Take what he writes for the article's merit. There was nothing of Tim Graham's snarkiness in his terrific five part series on Josh Allen's roots. Zero point zero. 

I absolutely do consider those things, just because you dismiss them doesnt mean should or would.

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Exactly, that is what he is supposed to do as part of his job..his boorish behavior then reflects upon him as an employer of the BN.  We can agree to disagree on the who started the fighting, as I do know that he kind of turned himself into a target by his behavior....people knew they could get a rise out of him, but I still have seen too many times(probably a bit of hyperbole on my part) him going from 0-100 without any significant provocation.

 

 

1 minute ago, Kelly the Dog said:

I understand that but it is always when someone tweets to him first, 99% going after him. Then he ups the ante. I don't call that "using his feed to disseminate his BN" work - as a personal criticism - when he simply supplies links to his stories. That is what he is supposed to do.

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2 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

There are a ton of teachers and there are a ton of good teachers, and it's a hard job. There are a ton of carpenters and there are a ton of good carpenters, and it's a hard job. There are a ton of politicians but there are relatively few good politicians, and it is a hard job. There are a ton of sportswriters but there are relatively few good sportswriters, and it is a hard job.

 

Graham is good at his job, which is a hard job, and which there are relatively few who do it consistently well, regardless of whether you hate him for his personality.

 

I think I've lost track of our points, but you know what? Almost everyone's job is a hard job in relative terms. But we don't want to compare how hard it is to be a sportswriter with how hard it is to be a teacher, or a carpenter because we both know that beyond long hours and maybe some travel, it's a pretty cush gig. The pay sucks, but the gig is cush.

 

And there are more than enough good sportswriters out there to the extent that sports fans can easily move along without missing Graham's work.

 

That has nothing to do with Graham the person, and everything to do with Graham the unemployed sportswriter.

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3 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said:

I absolutely do consider those things, just because you dismiss them doesnt mean should or would.

So you go to crappy restaurants because the Chef's political leanings mirror yours instead of good restaurants where they don't? You buy clearly inferior songs or movies because the artists think offscreen the way you do and ignore ones you like a lot more because of artists that think things differently than you in their spare time. You hire plumbers based on their party associations? That sounds like a VERY good idea.

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I think I speak for all of us when I say we should hold a candle light vigil for Graham's departure.....just like the one below but not hold it in China.

 

Image result for Candlelight vigil gif

Edited by Royale with Cheese

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34 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I think it's very bad that the paper is destroying itself, but the timing of this and the Vic Carucci-related tweet are pretty suspicious. I mean, christ, Graham just did a huge suite of stories on Josh freaking Allen, the QB of the future, a guy who is going to be the centerpiece of Buffalo sports reporting for the next half decade. It certainly didn't look like he was being eased out. It may be the case,  however, that the newsroom was poisonous (not surprising given the layoffs) and he grabbed the new ESPN gig as soon as it became available to get out. Unlike JS and BG, he may actually have chosen to leave.

 

In defense of Graham, that Allen article didn't happen overnight. It was likely started the moment he was drafted took quite a while to write, edit, edit, get editor sign-off, etc..

 

That said, the way he said he wrote his last TBN article makes me think his Carucci tweet is the reason he's gone. That was straight up slander, and newspapers don't like to be anywhere near slander, regardless of whether it was done on their behalf.

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4 minutes ago, LABillzFan said:

 

I think I've lost track of our points, but you know what? Almost everyone's job is a hard job in relative terms. But we don't want to compare how hard it is to be a sportswriter with how hard it is to be a teacher, or a carpenter because we both know that beyond long hours and maybe some travel, it's a pretty cush gig. The pay sucks, but the gig is cush.

 

And there are more than enough good sportswriters out there to the extent that sports fans can easily move along without missing Graham's work.

 

That has nothing to do with Graham the person, and everything to do with Graham the unemployed sportswriter.

To be a crappy anything is a cush gig. ;) To be good at anything is pretty hard.

 

But that's okay to disagree. You are and always have been one of my very favorite people on here for a couple decades, and we don't agree on hardly anything. Cheers!

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13 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

So you go to crappy restaurants because the Chef's political leanings mirror yours instead of good restaurants where they don't? You buy clearly inferior songs or movies because the artists think offscreen the way you do and ignore ones you like a lot more because of artists that think things differently than you in their spare time. You hire plumbers based on their party associations? That sounds like a VERY good idea.

So every restaurant I would like is automatically worse in your hyperbole? Same with every other piss poor example? Because the underlying issue is a person's character, which you are failing to acknowledge being the foundation of the issue.

 

You're right tho, the guy who serves the best burger in town is racist and anti-Semitic, but I should eat there, because compartmentalizing is key!

 

Especislly considering how much of an extreme you are trying to take this to. I mean I can sit here and ask why you chose to support people that align them selves with Harvey Weinstein, all because they may make a better movie? Regardless of nature of what takes place, you still support an industry that allows sexual predators to reign over? 

 

In the context none of hose things truly apply to Tim being in an industry where he makes a living off of crizitizing other, but cant then him self take it back.

 

Best part is how you are responding all based on me having a different view on something than you. 

Edited by BillsFan17

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Thanks TG for all the great work, especially in exposing Ralph’s trash for what they were. Happy trails!

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