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Buffalo News in financial trouble

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18 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Hmm. A light bulb just went off. 

 

 I think Bezos should buy into the Buffalo News and deliver the paper by drone. You could actually deliver it just as the reader was getting up, drop it on their front porch to ensure the news being reported was timely. I think I'm going to send him a letter on Monday when the post office is open again. 

 

This idea is in the incubator stage but I think it's got some legs to it.

 

Thanks OTALFG.

 

Or the gentle reader can rev up their electronic tablet, click on their news-sites of choice, and get timely news over coffee without the involvement of paper, printing presses, drones, or the need to expose the neighbors to the glory of the new bathrobe their kid gave them for Christmas.

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They stopped getting any and all of my clicks after publishing that softball interview with OJ.

 

It was distasteful, to say the least, to give that attention whore an audience.

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2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Or the gentle reader can rev up their electronic tablet, click on their news-sites of choice, and get timely news over coffee without the involvement of paper, printing presses, drones, or the need to expose the neighbors to the glory of the new bathrobe their kid gave them for Christmas.

They would have burned you at the stake in Salem for even thinking such things, Warlock Bills Fan. Your idea could never work.  "Electronic tablets"? Good luck with that plan. 

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It would be fun to watch them pull it out of the nosedive. But again it is a very bad circumstance to be in deep financial trouble and not even know what business you are in. They don't know what business they are in. 

 

They are in the advertising business. But people will not buy ads in the newspaper.

 

What this means is, that the ads in the paper are ineffective. If the ads were effective they would sell like hotcakes. 

 

Their focus needed to be to find out why their ads don't work for the customer and fix it. That's job one and they are still not doing that even as the ship is taking on water.

 

 

 

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On 5/18/2018 at 9:54 PM, Sky Diver said:

 

The root of the problem is the content. Newspapers are out of touch with readers.

So newspapers stating everyone hates Trump and thinks he's a buffoon is out of touch ?

 

.....well they all did say Hillary would win in a landslide too.

 

Guess they are wrong about a lot.

 

:doh:

 

 

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You can say these things about just about every newspaper in every city in the country. 

 

People don't read the paper anymore.  News on TV all day, sports on TV all day, weather on TV all day, coupons replaced with groupons, internet, handheld mobile phones, talking and thinking in bullets and sound bites.   Newspapers will be gone soon.  

 

Then an there are the people, like in this thread, that will entirely abandon a media source because of a story they didn’t like.  Opinion columns and editorials are not valued anymore. Just read this thread and see “they do t agree with my politics, so I’ll follow something that does”.  

Edited by Bob in STL

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1 hour ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

It would be fun to watch them pull it out of the nosedive. But again it is a very bad circumstance to be in deep financial trouble and not even know what business you are in. They don't know what business they are in. 

 

They are in the advertising business. But people will not buy ads in the newspaper.

 

What this means is, that the ads in the paper are ineffective. If the ads were effective they would sell like hotcakes. 

 

Their focus needed to be to find out why their ads don't work for the customer and fix it. That's job one and they are still not doing that even as the ship is taking on water.

 

 

 

  I'm not sure the advertising problem can be fixed.  Consolidation and the internet have eliminated a lot of local small business.  Look at your local broadcast news.  A few decades ago you would have shoe stores, Sears, grocery stores, appliance and electronics stores with most of those being locally owned small businesses.  Most of those local businesses have died off.  95 percent of advertising today for the local news is liability lawyers (who are based out of town in a number of circumstances), national insurance companies, and large volume car dealers.  The change is not devastating for the local news as they only need to several minutes and the ambulance chasing lawyers have filled in for the mom and pop furniture and appliance stores that have gone out of business.  A paper relies on a much larger advertiser volume which simply does not exist any more.  Two thirds of the car dealers that advertised in the local paper 30 years ago are no longer in business.  The advertising problem can not be fixed to a point to be like it was a generation ago.

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45 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  I'm not sure the advertising problem can be fixed.  Consolidation and the internet have eliminated a lot of local small business.  Look at your local broadcast news.  A few decades ago you would have shoe stores, Sears, grocery stores, appliance and electronics stores with most of those being locally owned small businesses.  Most of those local businesses have died off.  95 percent of advertising today for the local news is liability lawyers (who are based out of town in a number of circumstances), national insurance companies, and large volume car dealers.  The change is not devastating for the local news as they only need to several minutes and the ambulance chasing lawyers have filled in for the mom and pop furniture and appliance stores that have gone out of business.  A paper relies on a much larger advertiser volume which simply does not exist any more.  Two thirds of the car dealers that advertised in the local paper 30 years ago are no longer in business.  The advertising problem can not be fixed to a point to be like it was a generation ago.

  I guess that I would add that the prospects for many area businesses look worse than they did a decade or more ago.  I sure would hate to be a new car dealer today receiving pressure from my manufacturer to build a new Taj Mahal  type building just to sell a new Ford or Chevy as many regional dealers have done.  The spending money is with people who are getting up there in years and simply will not be around or paying all their disposable income to the nursing home.  Leasing is the venue that gets most younger 10-12 dollar per hour wage earners into new vehicles.  If that goes away due to a glut of used inventory to sell off that would seriously hurt most new car dealers.   Similar situation for consumer product type dealers such as Harley-Davidson.  What younger person with a family who is blue collar can afford a 30K bike?

Edited by RochesterRob

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....great article (part one of five) by Tim Graham on Josh Allen but you need a subscription to view link.....someone posted the entire article elsewhere om another site but I don't think it's allowable or preferred here.....

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1 hour ago, RochesterRob said:

  I'm not sure the advertising problem can be fixed.  Consolidation and the internet have eliminated a lot of local small business.  Look at your local broadcast news.  A few decades ago you would have shoe stores, Sears, grocery stores, appliance and electronics stores with most of those being locally owned small businesses.  Most of those local businesses have died off.  95 percent of advertising today for the local news is liability lawyers (who are based out of town in a number of circumstances), national insurance companies, and large volume car dealers.  The change is not devastating for the local news as they only need to several minutes and the ambulance chasing lawyers have filled in for the mom and pop furniture and appliance stores that have gone out of business.  A paper relies on a much larger advertiser volume which simply does not exist any more.  Two thirds of the car dealers that advertised in the local paper 30 years ago are no longer in business.  The advertising problem can not be fixed to a point to be like it was a generation ago.

All of that is probably true. But I think if they can not find a way to use their advantages in advertising they are all done. I think they should be focusing on that.

Put another way if I was CEO of TBN my word to the troops would be something like. "Headline 2 years from now. "Retailers are struggling across the nation, except in Western New York. Read why" And the why will be us ladies and gentlemen. Let's get to work."

 

This guy's letter was more like : "Cutbacks, And We gotta do something"

 

They are dead.

 

The advertisements are artless, and actually annoying. I had a paid subscription and the top 1/3 of the page was some big ad, for trucks or whatever, pushed in my face that I had to read around.

 

My thinking is they know who I am, my name, they know where I live, they know what I read. They could even know with little to no effort, where I buy my groceries. 

That is a tremendous advantage which they make no use of.

 

They push ads in my face in a random way. Like google does. I had typed in , you name it, teddy bear in my browser for some reason and then google will show me teddy bear ads for the next 2 weeks.

 

Meanwhile I was unable to search the ads in the buffalo news. I saw no interface to do that.

 

I want a mattress who has one on sale? No way to know.

A lawnmower? No way to know.  No way to search. 

I can't have a preference list that the paper would notify me of ad for items I am interested in. 

 

They could easily have an advertising experience tailored for me that I myself helped to set up.

What are the specials at my local supermarket this week? If I want to know, they come. I like a certain type of music. Any artists coming? I could be sure i would know automatically.

 

They could regain their position as an indispensable resource to the community. Such that you are at a disadvantage compared to your neighbors if you do not subscribe. And your life will take more time if you do not subscribe.

 

 

Instead they push random ads in my face.

 

Oh well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by BadLandsMeanie

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on the sports side they spend far too many years being dickish, childish, and snarky.   Notice i didn't say clever. Cheap , lazy potshots over and over again.  Never offering up editorials about solutions . Always taking the lowest road.   Graham and Sully have always come of as childish hacks . The day Bucky took his famous cheap shot at  Whaley with the ' what exactly do you do for a living " , comment is was clear there was an agenda .   

  i understand the need for clicks and to cause a stir. There writers are not capable of doing that. All they can do is double down on the same negative spin over and over again. 

 I will say this over the last year or so I sense a change away from the snark and character assassination towards a actually covering the teams.  It has been refreshing   Over the last 5 seasons the Bills haven't been a disaster just a team looking for a qb to take them from middle of the pack to a consistent play off team .   Often the B News choose to cover them like they were the Browns  

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On 5/16/2018 at 3:06 PM, Kelly the Dog said:

It seems so simple and obvious. Well put. One of the most important thing one can do to understand the world better, or anything better, is to read people who don't agree with you, or present the other side to your belief or argument. 

 

Unfortunately, this universal truth is dying a very quick and painful death. 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, twoandfourteen said:

 

Unfortunately, this universal truth is dying a very quick and painful death. 

 

 

 

 

....truth does NOT sell.....media has become the all encompassing National Enquirer salacious tabloid..........guttural and sad.....no interest in reversing it either..Huntley, Brinkley, Murrow and Cronkite are rolling over in their graves....

Edited by OldTimeAFLGuy
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13 minutes ago, baskingridgebillsfan said:

on the sports side they spend far too many years being dickish, childish, and snarky.   Notice i didn't say clever. Cheap , lazy potshots over and over again.  Never offering up editorials about solutions . Always taking the lowest road.   Graham and Sully have always come of as childish hacks . The day Bucky took his famous cheap shot at  Whaley with the ' what exactly do you do for a living " , comment is was clear there was an agenda .   

  i understand the need for clicks and to cause a stir. There writers are not capable of doing that. All they can do is double down on the same negative spin over and over again. 

 I will say this over the last year or so I sense a change away from the snark and character assassination towards a actually covering the teams.  It has been refreshing   Over the last 5 seasons the Bills haven't been a disaster just a team looking for a qb to take them from middle of the pack to a consistent play off team .   Often the B News choose to cover them like they were the Browns  

  I live outside the area covered by the BN but the few times I read it at the in-laws it was pretty much as you describe it.

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2 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  I live outside the area covered by the BN but the few times I read it at the in-laws it was pretty much as you describe it.

 

 

....sadly the 17 year drought target on the backs of the Bills kept these clowns as well as the D&C's (Roch-Cha-Cha) Maiorana and Roth employed......certainly shots were well earned and deserved.....can't hide ineptitude which was self inflicted.....but come every Monday, their ad nauseam was easily predictable......hell if I had a buck for EVERY time these urinalists used the phrase, "same old Bills", I'd have more money than Bill Gates.........

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23 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

All of that is probably true. But I think if they can not find a way to use their advantages in advertising they are all done. I think they should be focusing on that.

Put another way if I was CEO of TBN my word to the troops would be something like. "Headline 2 years from now. "Retailers are struggling across the nation, except in Western New York. Read why" And the why will be us ladies and gentlemen. Let's get to work."

 

This guy's letter was more like : "Cutbacks, And We gotta do something"

 

They are dead.

 

The advertisements are artless, and actually annoying. I had a paid subscription and the top 1/3 of the page was some big ad, for trucks or whatever, pushed in my face that I had to read around.

 

My thinking is they know who I am, my name, they know where I live, they know what I read. They could even know with little to no effort, where I buy my groceries. 

That is a tremendous advantage which they make no use of.

 

They push ads in my face in a random way. Like google does. I had typed in , you name it, teddy bear in my browser for some reason and then google will show me teddy bear ads for the next 2 weeks.

 

Meanwhile I was unable to search the ads in the buffalo news. I saw no interface to do that.

 

I want a mattress who has one on sale? No way to know.

A lawnmower? No way to know.  No way to search. 

I can't have a preference list that the paper would notify me of ad for items I am interested in. 

 

They could easily have an advertising experience tailored for me that I myself helped to set up.

What are the specials at my local supermarket this week? If I want to know, they come. I like a certain type of music. Any artists coming? I could be sure i would know automatically.

 

They could regain their position as an indispensable resource to the community. Such that you are at a disadvantage compared to your neighbors if you do not subscribe. And your life will take more time if you do not subscribe.

 

 

Instead they push random ads in my face.

 

Oh well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  Lets take your lawnmower issue for example.  It takes two to tango so to speak.  You have to have motivated business people that believe and can afford advertising and that is not the case anymore.  The guy in town who had a Snapper or Gravely franchise is gone because those two brands among others are gone or are a part of a big box store marketing plan.  So if Cub Cadet is  through the big box chain (Home Depot around here?) it is up to their advertising people how much they want to market CC via print.  Do they do a flyer or advertise via the area paper and if so just a few select models or a general campaign?  Other manufacturers rely on yet different means such as John Deere who advertises more during television prime time in the evening, sporting events, and AM radio.  Deere also markets by zip code so there typically would be ads in rural and well to do suburbs in terms of newspaper.  As said before there is not much left after the examples I mentioned other than a guy who fixes mowers out of his garage when he is not working at WalMart and there is so little money in that there is nothing for advertising.  His expectations are that he makes enough to have steak and the sides once a week and a couple 24 can packs of cheap beer to wash it down.  If you want used mowers then Craigslist or the equivalent is where it is and will be.  Just no getting around that.

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27 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  Lets take your lawnmower issue for example.  It takes two to tango so to speak.  You have to have motivated business people that believe and can afford advertising and that is not the case anymore.  The guy in town who had a Snapper or Gravely franchise is gone because those two brands among others are gone or are a part of a big box store marketing plan.  So if Cub Cadet is  through the big box chain (Home Depot around here?) it is up to their advertising people how much they want to market CC via print.  Do they do a flyer or advertise via the area paper and if so just a few select models or a general campaign?  Other manufacturers rely on yet different means such as John Deere who advertises more during television prime time in the evening, sporting events, and AM radio.  Deere also markets by zip code so there typically would be ads in rural and well to do suburbs in terms of newspaper.  As said before there is not much left after the examples I mentioned other than a guy who fixes mowers out of his garage when he is not working at WalMart and there is so little money in that there is nothing for advertising.  His expectations are that he makes enough to have steak and the sides once a week and a couple 24 can packs of cheap beer to wash it down.  If you want used mowers then Craigslist or the equivalent is where it is and will be.  Just no getting around that.

I think you are missing the point though. Companies spend their advertising dollars in the way that works the best.

If advertising in the local paper worked, they would do it. 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

I think you are missing the point though. Companies spend their advertising dollars in the way that works the best.

If advertising in the local paper worked, they would do it. 

 

 

  I don't think I am missing the point and am not sure you understand mine.  Your point of interest is TBN and I am saying for many there simply is no interest in marketing through the TBN or there are better print news options that will better reach a targeted consumer.  Lets look at Deere again.  The lower entry point products are handled through the big box stores (Lowe's around here) and it is up to Lowe's marketing people what form of ad (mailer and TV typically) and what products will be featured.  It's entirely possible a product you may be interested in may not be part of a campaign and would be up to you to inquire about at Lowe's.  The high end mowers, UTV's, Compact utility tractors, and so forth will be through an authorized private dealer and it will be up to Deere and the dealer to reach the targeted customer.  TBN might be inefficient based on cost to reach those potential buyers versus advertising in local papers in the outlying communities from Buffalo.  Getting around to your last sentence if a regional newspaper was the best means to reach customers then they would be doing it so that tells me if the advertising for mowers is not there then there is a problem with the marketing plan. Not lack of effort or drive.  One problem I see is targeted customers who would be interested in such advertising are not getting TBN not because it lacks marketing ads for mowers but because of other issues such as news and editorial content.

Edited by RochesterRob

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My favorite part of the paper when we lived in FL was the crossword puzzle. 

 

My wife has promised to cancel the WSJ since it adds to the process of walking the dog: on the way out I pick it up and throw it by the front door; on the way back I pick it up and bring it into the kitchen, where I take it out of the bag and put it on the counter; the next day, when I bring the next paper in, I take yesterday’s unread paper to the recycle. 

 

We get all the news we need by other means. 

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My limited experience with local newspapers is that they are cheerleaders for local teams. I’m confused or naive because the negativity of some of the BN writers with regard to Buffalo teams baffles me.  

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7 hours ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

It would be fun to watch them pull it out of the nosedive. But again it is a very bad circumstance to be in deep financial trouble and not even know what business you are in. They don't know what business they are in. 

 

They are in the advertising business. But people will not buy ads in the newspaper.

 

What this means is, that the ads in the paper are ineffective. If the ads were effective they would sell like hotcakes. 

 

Their focus needed to be to find out why their ads don't work for the customer and fix it. That's job one and they are still not doing that even as the ship is taking on water.

 

 

 

 

The BN ad model is not broken.  It's the brick and mortar retail model that died on them.   

 

The loss of Macy's and Bon Ton--two major ad accounts that went poof--put a major dent in their revenue.    Sears will be next to go.    So this latest round of downsizing is in response to that reality--matching revenue with expense--rather than an outright decline in readership...

 

 

5 hours ago, Bob in STL said:

 

People don't read the paper anymore.  News on TV all day, sports on TV all day, weather on TV all day, coupons replaced with groupons, internet, handheld mobile phones, talking and thinking in bullets and sound bites.   Newspapers will be gone soon.  

 

Nearly half a million people (460,000) read the Buffalo News each day.   That's down from 680,000 in 2008 but hardly "people don't read the paper anymore.'   And that doesn't account for digital-only readership, which has likely risen over that period.

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/229549/readers-of-the-buffalo-news-bf-daily-edition/

 

 

Edited by Lurker
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5 hours ago, Ifartalot said:

So newspapers stating everyone hates Trump and thinks he's a buffoon is out of touch ?

 

.....well they all did say Hillary would win in a landslide too.

 

Guess they are wrong about a lot.

 

:doh:

 

 

Amazing isn't it? They wonder why they are failing... Using the opinion section to insult half the nation daily, while presenting anything in regards to conservatives in a negative light works wonders. I get a washed up porn star on the front page and a blurb on 16b about peace in the Korean peninsula.

Edited by SmokinES3
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11 minutes ago, SmokinES3 said:

Amazing isn't it? They wonder why they are failing... Using the opinion section to insult half the nation daily, while presenting anything in regards to conservatives in a negative light works wonders. I get a washed up porn star on the front page and a blurb on 16b about peace in the Korean peninsula.

 

This just in (and it's not fake news).  The BN has always been a liberal, democratic-leaning newspaper.   As have most large northeastern dailies.

 

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/

 

The thing that's changed is the brick and mortar retail model, not editorial philosophy...

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15 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

This just in (and it's not fake news).  The BN has always been a liberal, democratic-leaning newspaper.   As have most large northeastern dailies.

 

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/

 

The thing that's changed is the brick and mortar retail model, not editorial philosophy...

It's gotten 10x worse in the last decade. Especially the last 2-3 years. They don't even make the slightest effort to provide unbiased news. Many people still prefer print magazines and newspapers.

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1 hour ago, Lurker said:

 

The BN ad model is not broken.  It's the brick and mortar retail model that died on them.   

 

The loss of Macy's and Bon Ton--two major ad accounts that went poof--put a major dent in their revenue.    Sears will be next to go.    So this latest round of downsizing is in response to that reality--matching revenue with expense--rather than an outright decline in readership...

 

 

 

Nearly half a million people (460,000) read the Buffalo News each day.   That's down from 680,000 in 2008 but hardly "people don't read the paper anymore.'   And that doesn't account for digital-only readership, which has likely risen over that period.

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/229549/readers-of-the-buffalo-news-bf-daily-edition/

 

 

  Interesting points but I still think there are issues in terms of TBN being a potent ad conveyor.  What is the income profile of the 460,000 readers of TBN?  Does it make sense for certain businesses to reach them via TBN versus another medium?  What is the income profile of those who do not read or subscribe to TBN? Is it inefficient to use advertising money to reach them via TBN versus the local paper in places such as Jamestown, Batavia, Albion, etc. which TBN supplies as well?

42 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

This just in (and it's not fake news).  The BN has always been a liberal, democratic-leaning newspaper.   As have most large northeastern dailies.

 

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/

 

The thing that's changed is the brick and mortar retail model, not editorial philosophy...

There is a difference versus 20, 30, 40 years or more ago.  Democratic politics were about being pro-labor, pro-women's rights, pro-education, pro-scale down the military.  Today the newspapers are just off the rails in opposition to anything the Republicans favor.  The previously mentioned thoughts are now forgotten in favor of more or less unchecked immigration, reparations to African-Americans for slavery, isolationist other than export money to hostile governments to make them play nice, etc. for the newspapers.

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