Gas Prices Are Rising

[Tiberius]

Backing out of Iran deal could mean our tax cuts all go to big oil 

 

https://www.thestreet.com/markets/trump-poised-to-pull-out-of-iran-deal-14583169

[Cinga]

4 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Backing out of Iran deal could mean our tax cuts all go to big oil 

 

https://www.thestreet.com/markets/trump-poised-to-pull-out-of-iran-deal-14583169

Just whose ass did you pull that logic out of? I only ask because I'm sure you have argued in the past, that the tax cut is only for the rich... But now the tax cuts belong to "US"? As in you and me?

[keepthefaith]

On 5/1/2018 at 3:11 PM, TakeYouToTasker said:

 

  And while you may be paying more for your car in some instances (you wouldn't be paying more than I am looking to for the 1964 Lincoln Continental I'm on the market for, for instance) that cost is rather irrelevant to the cost of upkeep for the roads, because those dollars go to shareholders of Tesla (used for purposes of discussion), and not to the public coffers.

 

 

 

My Grandfather had a '64 or '65.  Absolute barge of a car but unique with those doors and you'd be the coolest cat on the block with one of those now.  Lincoln is likely to re-introduce suicide doors in an upcoming Continental. 

[Doc Brown]

6 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Backing out of Iran deal could mean our tax cuts all go to big oil 

 

https://www.thestreet.com/markets/trump-poised-to-pull-out-of-iran-deal-14583169

For most people this is what they'll care about most as a result of pulling out of the Iran deal.

Edited May 9, 2018 by Doc Brown

[US Egg]

"Gas prices are rising" (the sky is falling)

 

They were $1.00 a gal. higher 5 yrs. ago. (didn't matter then)

 

Once was a time when these Chicken Little types weren't so obviously biased.

[boyst]

On 5/1/2018 at 4:23 PM, Gugny said:

 

I also think that a large part of the problem is the efficiency with which our roads are maintained (generally speaking).  Many DOTs don't staff/manage their staffs properly.  Instead of putting the work in to develop schedules that make sense, they just keep everyone on the same schedules and let overtime costs soar.

 

Using our beloved northeast as an example, we're paying plow truck drivers double time to run the plow on practically bare roads - completely !@#$ing them up.  Then paying them more OT to "fix" the damage they, themselves caused.  Don't even get me started on the stretch of lawn I need to replace every !@#$ing spring.

 

Furthermore ... how about finding a better way to "fix" damaged roads.  They're putting band-aids on severed limbs.  That's not cost effective.

 

Instead of targeting motorists, how about finding efficiencies, managing properly and find ways to achieve longer-term fixes, instead of fixing the same **** year after year.

 

No emissions.

 

We need to get rid of cows, next.

That's cute but what happens two are the byproducts that were used to create that vehicle you are using?

What happens when you're done with that battery?

What's going to have a greater impact on our environment? The hybrid car you might get 6 to 7 years out of? Or that old Chevy Cavalier that's 20 years old and still running?

1 hour ago, keepthefaith said:

 

My Grandfather had a '64 or '65.  Absolute barge of a car but unique with those doors and you'd be the coolest cat on the block with one of those now.  Lincoln is likely to re-introduce suicide doors in an upcoming Continental. 

I'm not going to Google it but why were they called suicide doors?

[Gugny]

6 hours ago, Boyst62 said:

That's cute but what happens two are the byproducts that were used to create that vehicle you are using?

What happens when you're done with that battery?

What's going to have a greater impact on our environment? The hybrid car you might get 6 to 7 years out of? Or that old Chevy Cavalier that's 20 years old and still running?

 

What the !@#$ are you talking about?  First of all, I don't drive a hybrid.  Pay attention.  Secondly, where the !@#$ are you finding that hybrids last 6-7 years??  They last just as long as any other car.  What happens when you're done with the battery in your gasoline-fed car?    As for the batteries in hybrid/electric vehicles - they're 100% recyclable.

 

You still want to compare environmental impact between an electric/hybrid vehicle and a gasoline-fed vehicle?

[Tiberius]

9 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

For most people this is what they'll care about most as a result of pulling out of the Iran deal.

For sure. I believe that a huge part of Bush's unpopularity in 2006-08 was that $4 a gallon gas. 

[Koko78]

2 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

What the !@#$ are you talking about?  First of all, I don't drive a hybrid.  Pay attention.  Secondly, where the !@#$ are you finding that hybrids last 6-7 years??  They last just as long as any other car.  What happens when you're done with the battery in your gasoline-fed car?    As for the batteries in hybrid/electric vehicles - they're 100% recyclable.

 

You still want to compare environmental impact between an electric/hybrid vehicle and a gasoline-fed vehicle?

 

I have to go to 639 Exchange Street next week, can you swing by and pick me up in your hybrid?

[Tiberius]

11 minutes ago, Koko78 said:

 

I have to go to 639 Exchange Street next week, can you swing by and pick me up in your hybrid?

We can all meet at Pearl Street Grill!! 

[boyst]

2 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

What the !@#$ are you talking about?  First of all, I don't drive a hybrid.  Pay attention.  Secondly, where the !@#$ are you finding that hybrids last 6-7 years??  They last just as long as any other car.  What happens when you're done with the battery in your gasoline-fed car?    As for the batteries in hybrid/electric vehicles - they're 100% recyclable.

 

You still want to compare environmental impact between an electric/hybrid vehicle and a gasoline-fed vehicle?

Yes. Yes I do.

 

The batteries in hybrids consume a shit!@#$ton more resources and create a massive footprint in the environment.  Standard car batteries, not so much. 

 

And these cars now don't last that long for 2 reasons:. Most upgrade as soon as the new flamfoozle upgrade comes out or 2 they don't care for their cars. Either way, people don't keep their cars long anymore. 

 

My old steel car is stripped down and recycled much like fancy e cars and others that have all these new advancements but that old steel car can be salvaged a lot better than a new auto made mostly of plastic, crap and vibranium.

[Gugny]

5 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

Yes. Yes I do.

 

The batteries in hybrids consume a ****!@#$ton more resources and create a massive footprint in the environment.  Standard car batteries, not so much. 

 

And these cars now don't last that long for 2 reasons:. Most upgrade as soon as the new flamfoozle upgrade comes out or 2 they don't care for their cars. Either way, people don't keep their cars long anymore. 

 

My old steel car is stripped down and recycled much like fancy e cars and others that have all these new advancements but that old steel car can be salvaged a lot better than a new auto made mostly of plastic, crap and vibranium.

 

What you said about the batteries (consumption, footprint) is patently false.  It depends on how they are charged and in most areas of the U.S., the emissions from electric and hybrid vehicles are FAR less than even the most fuel-efficient gas cars, let alone older/bigger models that get less than 20 MPG.

 

There is a difference between cars not lasting long and owners choosing to buy new vehicles.  This isn't specific to electric, hybrid or gasoline vehicles.

 

Same goes for your last pearl of knowledge.  Vehicles are all made from the same crap.  Not to mention, the plastic is just as recyclable as the steel.

[boyst]

14 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

What you said about the batteries (consumption, footprint) is patently false.  It depends on how they are charged and in most areas of the U.S., the emissions from electric and hybrid vehicles are FAR less than even the most fuel-efficient gas cars, let alone older/bigger models that get less than 20 MPG.

 

There is a difference between cars not lasting long and owners choosing to buy new vehicles.  This isn't specific to electric, hybrid or gasoline vehicles.

 

Same goes for your last pearl of knowledge.  Vehicles are all made from the same crap.  Not to mention, the plastic is just as recyclable as the steel.

Re: batteries: link?

 

Re: electric cars longevity: I know two e car owners both on their next car. The first had a battery die after 2 yrs.

 

The amount of energy to make the components is the emphasis on 

 

 

Anyway, here ya go sweetie, some links...sorry I don't get my news from the dailyshow or salon... But, go on with your bad self.

 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/electric-cars-are-not-necessarily-clean/

https://m.washingtonexaminer.com/new-study-electric-cars-may-be-worse-for-the-environment-than-gas-powered/article/2566847

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/dec/08/electric-car-emissions-climate-change (yes, mother !@#$ing Jones is smacking you)

[Koko78]

29 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

What you said about the batteries (consumption, footprint) is patently false.  It depends on how they are charged and in most areas of the U.S., the emissions from electric and hybrid vehicles are FAR less than even the most fuel-efficient gas cars, let alone older/bigger models that get less than 20 MPG.

 

I believe he is referring to the construction of the batteries. The mining of the rare-earths that make the batteries function is a nasty, dirty business.

[boyst]

21 minutes ago, Koko78 said:

 

I believe he is referring to the construction of the batteries. The mining of the rare-earths that make the batteries function is a nasty, dirty business.

Yes. 

[Tiberius]

49 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

Re: batteries: link?

 

Re: electric cars longevity: I know two e car owners both on their next car. The first had a battery die after 2 yrs.

 

The amount of energy to make the components is the emphasis on 

 

 

Anyway, here ya go sweetie, some links...sorry I don't get my news from the dailyshow or salon... But, go on with your bad self.

 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/electric-cars-are-not-necessarily-clean/ 

Nice article. Shows the need to keep making more solar and wind power. I don't get why they didn't do wind power during the great era of hydroelectric power generation 

[Chef Jim]

Years ago when I first visited SF and they had all those electric buses with stickers in the back that said Zero Emissions Vehicle. I’d laugh and laugh and say “only on this end”. People are so gullible. 

[DC Tom]

1 hour ago, Gugny said:

 

What you said about the batteries (consumption, footprint) is patently false.  It depends on how they are charged and in most areas of the U.S., the emissions from electric and hybrid vehicles are FAR less than even the most fuel-efficient gas cars, let alone older/bigger models that get less than 20 MPG.

 

There is a difference between cars not lasting long and owners choosing to buy new vehicles.  This isn't specific to electric, hybrid or gasoline vehicles.

 

Same goes for your last pearl of knowledge.  Vehicles are all made from the same crap.  Not to mention, the plastic is just as recyclable as the steel.

 

1 hour ago, Koko78 said:

 

I believe he is referring to the construction of the batteries. The mining of the rare-earths that make the batteries function is a nasty, dirty business.

 

Exactly.  Gugny, your post illustrates the classic fallacy of every hybrid cost-benefit analysis I've ever seen: it only takes in to account the operational environmental footprint, and not construction and disposal.  

 

For a regular car, construction/disposal is 50-70% of the environmental footprint.  For a hybrid/electric vehicle, I'd imagine it's substantially higher - it certainly is in percentage terms, as the ratio of operational to construction/disposal impact is skewed by it being a LEV, and it may be in absolute terms as well.  

 

And generally (but NOT universally), LEVs have a shorter life, simply because they're built more lightly than a standard car, to reduce gas consumption.  I know the 3G Prius has a significant lack of stiffness and robustness in its construction, noticeably more so than compact cars I've owned/driven.

[Gugny]

32 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

 

Exactly.  Gugny, your post illustrates the classic fallacy of every hybrid cost-benefit analysis I've ever seen: it only takes in to account the operational environmental footprint, and not construction and disposal.  

 

For a regular car, construction/disposal is 50-70% of the environmental footprint.  For a hybrid/electric vehicle, I'd imagine it's substantially higher - it certainly is in percentage terms, as the ratio of operational to construction/disposal impact is skewed by it being a LEV, and it may be in absolute terms as well.  

 

And generally (but NOT universally), LEVs have a shorter life, simply because they're built more lightly than a standard car, to reduce gas consumption.  I know the 3G Prius has a significant lack of stiffness and robustness in its construction, noticeably more so than compact cars I've owned/driven.

 

Tom, I understand the impact of the construction, but the operational piece more than makes up for it, doesn't it? (serious question)

 

Also, it's not the life of the vehicle itself that's shorter; it's the life of the battery.  If an LEV's battery lasts 8 years (average), then the LEV owner could choose to get a new battery ($2-3K).  That's not any different than someone putting in a new transmission after that long.  Plus, the batteries are 100% recyclable.

 

I can't find anything that shows that the overall durability of the vehicles is much, if any, less than a gas-powered, high-efficiency, compact car.

Edited May 9, 2018 by Gugny
I forgot some ****.

[boyst]

1 hour ago, Gugny said:

 

Tom, I understand the impact of the construction, but the operational piece more than makes up for it, doesn't it? (serious question)

 

Also, it's not the life of the vehicle itself that's shorter; it's the life of the battery.  If an LEV's battery lasts 8 years (average), then the LEV owner could choose to get a new battery ($2-3K).  That's not any different than someone putting in a new transmission after that long.  Plus, the batteries are 100% recyclable.

 

I can't find anything that shows that the overall durability of the vehicles is much, if any, less than a gas-powered, high-efficiency, compact car.

Batteries are much more expensive than $2-3k. Those low prices you saw a while back were artificially lowered under 44 tax incentive plans, etc.  

 

Further, the real costs  are north of $10k. Meaning that you can buy a new battery every 5 to 6 years or spend $10k towards a new model which, as proven, has been the case of consumers.

 

Further, damage to electric cars after accidents and replacement parts is also much different. You're having motors and extra costs that normally were just there where steel axles and other parts existed.

 

Electric cars are a long way away from environmental ideal when faced with the consumer/real world reality

 

This from left leaning guardian.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/aug/24/nickel-mining-hidden-environmental-cost-electric-cars-batteries

I remember this coming out and the joke being that if it's too environmental unstable for the Philippines than clearly, it's not good.

Edited May 9, 2018 by Boyst62