DC Tom Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 7 minutes ago, Gugny said: Tom, I understand the impact of the construction, but the operational piece more than makes up for it, doesn't it? (serious question) No, it actually doesn't. Construction and disposal are environmentally expensive. I recall from about 10 years ago, the most environmentally friendly car was a Ford subcompact (a Fiesta or some such). The Prius and Insight were somewhere around #80 on the list. And you have to remember, it's a mammoth supply chain. What's the footprint of all the copper wiring? Any aluminum? Aluminium smelting has a hideously large environmental footprint (carbon alone - it requires prodigious consumption of electricity, and releases large amounts of CO2 above and beyond that. In fact, if you want to reduce your carbon footprint, you'd do better not buying aluminum cans than you would buying a hybrid vehicle). Argonne National Labs has done research in to this. Their models are good, though some of the uses I've seen are questionable. Ultimately, unless you're replacing a Humvee with a Prius, it's more environmentally friendly to drive your current car into the ground than replace it with a LEV just for environmental purposes alone. 33 minutes ago, Gugny said: Also, it's not the life of the vehicle itself that's shorter; it's the life of the battery. If an LEV's battery lasts 8 years (average), then the LEV owner could choose to get a new battery ($2-3K). That's not any different than someone putting in a new transmission after that long. Plus, the batteries are 100% recyclable. It's both. But on early hybrids the chassis is more lightly built, to save weight, to increase MPG. And you can replace a hybrid battery (I've looked in to it, it's a relatively inexpensive DIY project, but not terribly easy or safe. The dealer will charge you and arm and a leg.) You can't replace a frame. They simply wear out faster from normal wear-and-tear. And battery life tends to be an overstated issue anyway. Unless you're keeping the car sitting in the sun all summer and not driving it (time, heat, and lack of use kill rechargeable batteries), it should last the life of the car. You can easily get 200k+ miles out of a hybrid battery, which is probably more than you'll get out of the other components. 1 hour ago, Gugny said: I can't find anything that shows that the overall durability of the vehicles is much, if any, less than a gas-powered, high-efficiency, compact car. Own one for a while. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 5 minutes ago, Boyst62 said: Batteries are much more expensive than $2-3k. Those low prices you saw a while back were artificially lowered under 44 tax incentive plans, etc. Not the after-market ones. Plus, you can replace individual cells (if you're a competent DIY-er) - usually, when "the battery" goes, it's just a cell or two out of a couple dozen. Or corrosion on the battery leads, or an inverter coolant problem (which I had myself - quoted $2000 for it, ended up being a $100 part that took me an hour to install, most of which time was removing and replacing the headlight assembly to reach the pump behind it.) But it's a high-voltage system, so unless you know what you're doing people get squirrely working on them, so you'll always be told "just replace the battery" even when it's something as simple as "take off all the copper leads and clean them." The problem's less "battery life" than it is "mechanics don't want to work on the batteries." 12 minutes ago, Boyst62 said: Further, damage to electric cars after accidents and replacement parts is also much different. You're having motors and extra costs that normally were just there where steel axles and other parts existed. Very untrue. Most of those extras, since they're electric and not mechanical, are largely self-contained and hence much more resistant to damage. First time my Prius was hit, the design of the drive train kept the shock from being transmitted throughout the drive train components, and resulted in less damage than a normal car would have had - car would have been totaled if it had a normal transmission and not a CVT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 7 minutes ago, DC Tom said: Not the after-market ones. Plus, you can replace individual cells (if you're a competent DIY-er) - usually, when "the battery" goes, it's just a cell or two out of a couple dozen. Or corrosion on the battery leads, or an inverter coolant problem (which I had myself - quoted $2000 for it, ended up being a $100 part that took me an hour to install, most of which time was removing and replacing the headlight assembly to reach the pump behind it.) But it's a high-voltage system, so unless you know what you're doing people get squirrely working on them, so you'll always be told "just replace the battery" even when it's something as simple as "take off all the copper leads and clean them." The problem's less "battery life" than it is "mechanics don't want to work on the batteries." Very untrue. Most of those extras, since they're electric and not mechanical, are largely self-contained and hence much more resistant to damage. First time my Prius was hit, the design of the drive train kept the shock from being transmitted throughout the drive train components, and resulted in less damage than a normal car would have had - car would have been totaled if it had a normal transmission and not a CVT. I had read otherwise a few years ago. It was a build up of per part of the auto showing that the auto is substantialyly more expensive piece by piece, similar to what was going on with Kia, due to incentives to produce cheap vehicles while the outsourced parts remained high I can't speak from.the experiences you have working on them and can only go off of articles read but imagine that is easily the case now that you've explained it. I'd say less than half the granola homos that own those vehicles can turn a screwdriver, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 10 minutes ago, Boyst62 said: I had read otherwise a few years ago. It was a build up of per part of the auto showing that the auto is substantialyly more expensive piece by piece, similar to what was going on with Kia, due to incentives to produce cheap vehicles while the outsourced parts remained high I can't speak from.the experiences you have working on them and can only go off of articles read but imagine that is easily the case now that you've explained it. I'd say less than half the granola homos that own those vehicles can turn a screwdriver, though. Yeah, but all the measurements are metric, so only the granola homos understand them. So it's kind of a wash. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 29 minutes ago, DC Tom said: Yeah, but all the measurements are metric, so only the granola homos understand them. So it's kind of a wash. Homo granolas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Sack Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 Is our domestic production being exported? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 16 hours ago, DC Tom said: Own one for a while. You've owned a gugny thru most of this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 9 hours ago, /dev/null said: You've owned a gugny thru most of this thread Much bigger environmental footprint, what with the methane emissions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted May 25, 2018 Author Share Posted May 25, 2018 Quote President Donald Trump is hoping a wave of tax-cut-fueled economic euphoria will boost his approval ratings and his party’s political fortunes this fall. A sharp spike in gas prices could slam the brakes on all of that. As Americans head out for traditional Memorial Day weekend road trips, they’ll confront gas prices of nearly $3 a gallon, the highest since 2014 and a 25 percent spike since last year. The increased cost of fuel is already wiping out a big chunk of the benefit Americans received from the GOP tax cuts. And things could get worse as summer approaches following the administration’s standoff with Iran and a move by oil-producing nations to tighten supplies. The result: The economic and political benefits Trump and the GOP hoped to reap from cutting tax rates could be swamped by higher pump prices that Americans face every time they hit the road. https://www.politico.com/story/2018/05/25/trumps-gas-prices-midterms-570916 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 10 minutes ago, Tiberius said: https://www.politico.com/story/2018/05/25/trumps-gas-prices-midterms-570916 We can see how excited you are that gas prices are going up and misinformed people might blame it on Trump. Root, root, root against the home team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted May 25, 2018 Author Share Posted May 25, 2018 18 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: We can see how excited you are that gas prices are going up and misinformed people might blame it on Trump. Root, root, root against the home team. Price gouging is a serious business. If Trump's deep state is cheating everyone the American people deserve to know. Corrupt Scott Pruitt is probably lining his pockets while cutting regulations and "red tape" that protected consumers. Corruption is the theme of the midterms! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 52 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Price gouging is a serious business. If Trump's deep state is cheating everyone the American people deserve to know. Corrupt Scott Pruitt is probably lining his pockets while cutting regulations and "red tape" that protected consumers. Corruption is the theme of the midterms! Do you know how anything works? I mean, do you even know where babies come from or why you should wipe your ass? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted May 25, 2018 Author Share Posted May 25, 2018 10 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: Do you know how anything works? I mean, do you even know where babies come from or why you should wipe your ass? A person that says Trump is their hero shouldn't be acting condescending. You are an idiot. BP profits surge 71 percent amid oil price rally CNBC-Apr 30, 2018 On Thursday, Shell reported a 42 percent rise in profits during the first three months of the year, underpinned by a recent uptick in oil and gas ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 31 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: Do you know how anything works? I mean, do you even know where babies come from or why you should wipe your ass? he just blabs about any topic someone raises, not a speck of knowledge or insight provided by Tibs today's menu of topics for Tibs to pseudo-chatter to will be: 1)The difference between the versions of Bruckner's 8th, including preference between the recordings of Furtwangler, Celibidache and Tintner. 2) Declaring between 0-100% how much the delivery of the Covenant at Sinai was a republication of the Covenant of Works. 3) The unsung career of Cleveland Indian slugger Hal Trosky. 4) The physics involved in the freekick of Mario Corso "The Left Foot of God" that should take him 60 seconds to come up with something pointless in total on all topics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 16 minutes ago, Tiberius said: A person that says Trump is their hero shouldn't be acting condescending. You are an idiot. BP profits surge 71 percent amid oil price rally CNBC-Apr 30, 2018 On Thursday, Shell reported a 42 percent rise in profits during the first three months of the year, underpinned by a recent uptick in oil and gas ... Your reading comprehension is non existent. I never said Trump was my hero you doofus. Read up on supply and demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 nobody likes Trump we find him entertaining and amusing, and the way he totally infuriates people with a 3 foot broomstick up their ass is the greatest thing ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 How many !@#$ing times do I have to tell some of you nincompoops that current energy policy plays virtually no role in the price of gasoline. With the exception of shutting down refineries or oil wells it's not gonna happen. Sure, some saber rattling around oil producing countries can cause temporary spikes in the price but they always correct back down to their means. This is a retard argument for retards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 1 minute ago, Magox said: How many !@#$ing times do I have to tell some of you nincompoops that current energy policy plays virtually no role in the price of gasoline. With the exception of shutting down refineries or oil wells it's not gonna happen. Sure, some saber rattling around oil producing countries can cause temporary spikes in the price but they always correct back down to their means. This is a retard argument for retards. Save your breath. The people involved in the argument aren't interested in understanding energy markets, or being correct in their assumptions. They're interested marketing their politics to the ignorant. Full stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 37 minutes ago, Magox said: This is a retard argument for retards. And look who started the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted May 25, 2018 Author Share Posted May 25, 2018 52 minutes ago, Magox said: How many !@#$ing times do I have to tell some of you nincompoops that current energy policy plays virtually no role in the price of gasoline. With the exception of shutting down refineries or oil wells it's not gonna happen. Sure, some saber rattling around oil producing countries can cause temporary spikes in the price but they always correct back down to their means. This is a retard argument for retards. Why are you protecting the price gougers? Corruption is out of control in this country and a fish rots from the head down. If prices remain at these ALL TIME HIGHS (ha ha) towards the November elections Democrats need to focus on this as part of the anti-corruption campaign As such, I am calling on Democrats to: 1) Demand an investigation into these high prices 2) They need to haul the oil barons up to capital hill in chains is necessary and demand answers of why they are cheating the American public 3) A thorough investigation of Tom Prices' many corrupt acts as head of the EPA including his wild spending sprees and how his actions of cutting regulations has, if its true, led to price manipulation, gouging and more profits for the rich and powerful. Who the hell is this guy working for? 4) What role if any has bribes paid to Trump, Trump associates and other cronies paid in allowing this most corrupt system to flourish 5) How has Trump's relationships with corrupt--that word haunts this corrupt administration!--regimes in Russia and Saudi Arabia led to these higher prices that are out of control! 6) Have a party afterwards and laugh ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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