leonbus23 Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 (edited) Worried about Allen's accuracy Edited April 29, 2018 by leonbus23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 20 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: Look, I'm not trying to change your mind at all because I agree that only Allen's play will be the proof in the pudding, but I did find it incredibly interesting that Trent Dilfer (the guy that does the elite 11 camp and works with a ton of the top QBs in the draft) said that the only guys he saw throw like this kid were Elway & Favre. If those are the only 2 names he could come up with that's pretty much generational talent imo. It wasn’t until we picked him that I started seeing him being labeled as a generational talent by Bills fans. As a matter of fact, I don’t think I’ve seen him described as one by anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 Maybe I have missed it, but who do the Allen-Haters compare him to? Who is the failed QB that Allen fits the mold of? Then we can tear into that comparison... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 19 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: From a soul and science episode? He had good things to say about each participant in the entire series and that includes the other Allen named Kyle. Doesn't mean much in that context. Nah, from the Eisen interview Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 Just now, BuffaloHokie13 said: Nah, from the Eisen interview Still related to the Soul and Science series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 23 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said: If only they merged all of Allen redundant threads it would be easier to converse as a community you mean the annoying were doomed, Beane is an idiot and Allen is a horrible person threads. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 (edited) 36 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: From a soul and science episode? He had good things to say about each participant in the entire series and that includes the other Allen named Kyle. Doesn't mean much in that context. I think he is referring to a longer interview on the Rich Eisen show. It's posted in one of these threads. I'm surprised you weren't the one to post it, actually I see BuffaloHokie13 clarified this above. . . Edited April 29, 2018 by Dr. Who Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 16 minutes ago, Bangarang said: It wasn’t until we picked him that I started seeing him being labeled as a generational talent by Bills fans. As a matter of fact, I don’t think I’ve seen him described as one by anyone else. I just find the difference in perspective between the people who have worked with him hands on and the analytics folks super intriguing, and obviously I'm hoping for the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 1 minute ago, Dr. Who said: I think he is referring to a longer interview on the Rich Eisen show. It's posted in one of these threads. I'm surprised you weren't the one to post it, actually I see BuffaloHokie13 clarified this above. . . I did post it in the Soul and Science thread before it debuted. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njbuff Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 20 minutes ago, OJABBA said: Maybe I have missed it, but who do the Allen-Haters compare him to? Who is the failed QB that Allen fits the mold of? Then we can tear into that comparison... You get people who compare him to EJ Manuel......... EJ MANUEL, which is the most laughable thing I will ever hear. Allen has more talent in his sleep that Manuel can ever dream of having. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 Just now, njbuff said: You get people who compare him to EJ Manuel......... EJ MANUEL, which is the most laughable thing I will ever hear. Allen has more talent in his sleep that Manuel can ever dream of having. Yeah, I think that comparison would be quickly dismantled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njbuff Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 5 minutes ago, OJABBA said: Yeah, I think that comparison would be quickly dismantled. For starters, Manuel was a third round prospect who the Bills reached for in 2013 and Allen was big time on McDermott's radar the second he became HC of the Buffalo Bills. That is just one huge difference. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Hard to say that with arm strength only a part of the equation that leads to greatness at the NFL level. There is so much more beyond that as you already know. Agreed. Mayock referred to Allen as having " crazy arm talent". That's great, but it's not the same as being a generational talent at QB. That's an Andrew Luck, and as you pointed out there's more to that equation. We know that virtually no one saw a Luck in this draft. We all hope as Bills fans that we got the right " Josh. " and the best QB available . Edited April 29, 2018 by Boatdrinks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 1 hour ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: I just find the difference in perspective between the people who have worked with him hands on and the analytics folks super intriguing, and obviously I'm hoping for the best. Roght now, I give the advantage to the analytics guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Bangarang said: Roght now, I give the advantage to the analytics guys. John Dorsey, Steve Keim among 2018 NFL draft winners LOSERS Analytics: First off, good for PFF’s Steve Palazzolo, who was on the Baker-Mayfield-to-Browns train from the beginning. Mayfield was far and away PFF’s top quarterback, at a time when many mainstream analysts were disagreeing. If nothing else, it helps legitimize their process, which is admittedly a work in progress. Not all NFL teams, however, seemed to be making the kind of suave, next-generation moves befitting of the analytic wave. Gettleman, for one, hands a heap of guaranteed money to the least reliable position in the NFL—a person who will almost certainly exit his athletic prime by the end of this rookie deal. Sean Payton gave up a future first-rounder to move up for a defensive end. The Bills took a quarterback described this way by Football Outsiders: Last year, Wyoming finished 119th in passing S&P+ out of 130 teams in FBS. That will be the lowest rank ever for a quarterback chosen in the top 100 picks of the NFL draft. Yes, I know, Allen wasn’t playing with a bunch of NFL-bound talent around him. He also wasn’t facing a lot of NFL-bound talent on defense. The average opponent faced by Wyoming ranked just 83.5 in pass defense S&P+. Allen’s performance against top opponents was brutal. He threw two picks with no touchdowns against Iowa, with just 4.35 yards per attempt. He completed just 9-of-24 passes with 64 yards and a pick against Oregon. He completed 44 percent of passes with two picks and only 131 yards against Boise State. Projecting Allen Mean Projection in Years 3-5: -83 DYAR Bust (< 500 DYAR) 62.7% Adequate Starter (500-1499 DYAR) 20.7% Upper Tier (1500-2500 DYAR) 11.5% Elite (>2500 DYAR) 5.2% Like Darnold, Allen was only a two-year starter in college. But Allen's statistics are horrifying compared to Darnold's. Allen has an obscenely powerful arm, but it's a howitzer without a targeting system. He completed just 56.3 percent of his passes last year. Here is the list of quarterbacks chosen in the top 100 picks since 2005 despite having a completion rate below 58 percent in their final college season: Andrew Walter (2005), Jake Locker (2011), Christian Hackenberg (2016), Connor Cook (2016) and C.J. Beathard (2017). That's it. Since 1997, there have been 27 quarterbacks chosen in the top 100 with QBASE ratings below zero. The best of these quarterbacks was either Josh McCown or Brian Griese. It's a terrible group of quarterback busts. Negative-QBASE passers chosen in the first round include Mark Sanchez, Josh Freeman, Kyle Boller, Rex Grossman, J.P. Losman and Patrick Ramsey. Allen supporters talk about how his 2016 season was much better than his 2017 season, and it was. In 2016, Wyoming finished 52nd in passing S&P+. Allen still couldn't complete more than 56.0 percent of his passes. If we pretend Allen's 2017 season never happened, then Allen has a QBASE of 161, still the worst of this year's top prospects. Edited April 30, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM57 Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 2 hours ago, OJABBA said: Maybe I have missed it, but who do the Allen-Haters compare him to? Who is the failed QB that Allen fits the mold of? Then we can tear into that comparison... Kyle Boller is one you hear when talking about arm strength/accuracy only. Also heard Jake Locker or Jay Cutler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEBills Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 6 minutes ago, JM57 said: Kyle Boller is one you hear when talking about arm strength/accuracy only. Also heard Jake Locker or Jay Cutler. Boller’s completion percentage was worse than Allen’s. Locker is a better comparison, though he was done in after only a few years in the NFL due to injuries. Cutler is the best comparison, imo. Played on an overmatched team, similar completion percentage with a huge arm. And he would have been a really good QB in this league if he didn’t have such a sh*t personality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthNYfan Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 3 minutes ago, LEBills said: Boller’s completion percentage was worse than Allen’s. Locker is a better comparison, though he was done in after only a few years in the NFL due to injuries. Cutler is the best comparison, imo. Played on an overmatched team, similar completion percentage with a huge arm. And he would have been a really good QB in this league if he didn’t have such a sh*t personality. Yeah. Cutler was actually not a bad QB, just a complete loser of a personality, and honestly didn't look like he gave a crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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