NYTIMES leaked player-owner meeting

[row_33]

Next Issue:  THE DEBT

 

it goes on and on and grows and nothing is done about it

 

the only people who care go on and on about it at work and the family table and the park bench, and everyone thinks or says "it just never !@#$ing ends with this guy"

 

 

[keepthefaith]

10 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Nope! We have to take care of our old folks which is going to cost more. 

 

Infrastructure, military, education and health care are all going to cost more. Taxes are going to have to go back up. 

 

So you think the federal government and citizens can't find ways to do more at less expense?  All are operating at the peak of efficiency and every tax dollar spent is done so in a very prudent fashion?  No waste? 

 

Shirley you jest. 

[Tiberius]

40 minutes ago, keepthefaith said:

 

So you think the federal government and citizens can't find ways to do more at less expense?  All are operating at the peak of efficiency and every tax dollar spent is done so in a very prudent fashion?  No waste? 

 

Shirley you jest. 

You have any facts at all to back up this claim? What waste? Like what Scott Pruitt wanted for his office and to pay his cronies extra money? You have any more claims like that? 

[Deranged Rhino]

 

Is why it's a waste of time to try to engage Gator honestly. He's incapable of doing so.

[3rdnlng]

10 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

Is why it's a waste of time to try to engage Gator honestly. He's incapable of doing so.

Gator agrees, it's a waist of time.

[row_33]

26 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

Is why it's a waste of time to try to engage Gator honestly. He's incapable of doing so.

 

Thyme has come today

 

[first_and_ten]

2 hours ago, keepthefaith said:

 

It's a crap article with crap arguments.

 

It was the aim of the bill to reduce corporate taxes to make the US a more competitive place to do business.  This is a good thing for companies and their workers.  Mission accomplished.

 

Top wage earners lost the their state tax deductions above $10K.  That is a tax increase.  The top bracket went from 39.6% to 37%, and both are ridiculous numbers.  Nobody should be forced to give the federal government this much of their income.  All brackets were reduced, including the top.  Those that pay a hefty load of the taxes in this country also deserve cuts. 

 

Lastly, businesses especially small businesses are over taxed.  Small business owners even pay taxes on income they don't take.  You probably have no idea how that works but it's very true.  Some states (like mine) charge additional taxes to small business owners and some states tax small business inventory.  Small businesses should not pay more in taxes than large businesses and that has been the case in many instances in the past.  Again, the new tax code is aiming to make it easier for business to be competitive here.  Hit the target again. 

 

 Is that really your argument? It's a crap article? I could say whatever you say is crap then. Argue better than that. Well here's a Washington Post article........

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2017/12/18/trump-and-the-gop-are-rigging-our-tax-system-for-the-rich-this-new-report-explains-how/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.144958e58fbc  ( but any article I show You will probably be crap to you since it doesn't fit your narrative)

 

Don't be so blind to the truth. Yes , they lowered most middle class taxes, although some will pay more. The real aim for this bill was to cut takes on the very rich. I could probably find hundreds of articles citing experts on this fact. 

 

Why do you think some larger companies paid their labor force one time bonuses instead of actual pay increases? I think you can figure that one out, right?

 

This bill makes it easier for wealthy business owners to manipulate the system to pay less takes, such as creating pass through entities. The problem , since corporate tax rates go to 21%, they are now taxed lower than individuals. This would seemingly make the pass through scheme not work.  But let's not worry wealthy people, Congress fixed this problem, lol.  They made it so income passed through an individual thru a pass through entity and attributed to a sole proprietorship will now be taxed at individual tax rates less a deduction of up to 20% to bring the rate lower. This is just one of the games they play to make this bill make the rich richer. C'mon, don't pretend these politicians are out to benefit the middle class, or the poor among us either for that matter. But that's another argument for another day. Remember when Paul Ryan touted a woman's raise of $1.50 as an example of how the tax plan was working? Not a $1.50 per hour 

!!!!  It was $1.50 per week !!!!! Can he be more out of touch??

 

This tax bill will make an already bad national debt issue much worse. Who's going to pay for this? I think you know the answer to that one too. This President is a con man. This tax bill was a scam on the American people. The Republican Congress is complicit. Throwing scarps to the middle class is not a fair and equitable tax plan. It's irresponsible too. No wonder Paul Ryan is bowing out. 

Edited April 26, 2018 by first_and_ten

[TakeYouToTasker]

9 minutes ago, first_and_ten said:

 

 Is that really your argument? It's a crap article? I could say whatever you say is crap then. Argue better than that. Well here's a Washington Post article........

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2017/12/18/trump-and-the-gop-are-rigging-our-tax-system-for-the-rich-this-new-report-explains-how/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.144958e58fbc

 

You're referencing Op-Eds published with the intent of spinning a business friendly tax reduction as a give away to the wealthy as it's primary purpose.  That's intellectually dishonest, and thusly "crap".

 

If you want to debate the merits of policy, don't start by cramming talking points designed to highlight and misrepresent the purpose of the policy in question into your argument.

 

As an aside, his argument was everything that came after identifying your Op-Ed as the garbage it is.

 

You know, this:

 

It was the aim of the bill to reduce corporate taxes to make the US a more competitive place to do business.  This is a good thing for companies and their workers.  Mission accomplished.

 

Top wage earners lost the their state tax deductions above $10K.  That is a tax increase.  The top bracket went from 39.6% to 37%, and both are ridiculous numbers.  Nobody should be forced to give the federal government this much of their income.  All brackets were reduced, including the top.  Those that pay a hefty load of the taxes in this country also deserve cuts. 

 

Lastly, businesses especially small businesses are over taxed.  Small business owners even pay taxes on income they don't take.  You probably have no idea how that works but it's very true.  Some states (like mine) charge additional taxes to small business owners and some states tax small business inventory.  Small businesses should not pay more in taxes than large businesses and that has been the case in many instances in the past.  Again, the new tax code is aiming to make it easier for business to be competitive here.  Hit the target again.

 

Edited April 26, 2018 by TakeYouToTasker

[keepthefaith]

6 minutes ago, first_and_ten said:

 

 Is that really your argument? It's a crap article? I could say whatever you say is crap then. Argue better than that. Well here's a Washington Post article........

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2017/12/18/trump-and-the-gop-are-rigging-our-tax-system-for-the-rich-this-new-report-explains-how/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.144958e58fbc

 

More crap.  The new tax code was designed to provide businesses lower taxes yet the article is railing against businesses paying lower taxes.  Duh. Using the real estate example provided in the article, people in that business are already operating those businesses as LLC's or S-corps.  Those aren't loopholes, they're ordinary business filings.  They are already there.  The method of taxation pre and post the new tax bill hasn't changed.  Only the rates have.    Again the whole point of the tax breaks was to tax people and especially businesses of all kinds less.  That's what this does.  Taxes are real business expenses that prevent businesses and people from spending that money on other things.  Less of that is better for business.  

 

If you are a person who thinks that it's OK for federal and state governments to collectively demand 40+ percent (some near 50%) of some people's income, then we can't even communicate. 

[TakeYouToTasker]

11 minutes ago, keepthefaith said:

 

More crap.  The new tax code was designed to provide businesses lower taxes yet the article is railing against businesses paying lower taxes.  Duh. Using the real estate example provided in the article, people in that business are already operating those businesses as LLC's or S-corps.  Those aren't loopholes, they're ordinary business filings.  They are already there.  The method of taxation pre and post the new tax bill hasn't changed.  Only the rates have.    Again the whole point of the tax breaks was to tax people and especially businesses of all kinds less.  That's what this does.  Taxes are real business expenses that prevent businesses and people from spending that money on other things.  Less of that is better for business.  

 

If you are a person who thinks that it's OK for federal and state governments to collectively demand 40+ percent (some near 50%) of some people's income, then we can't even communicate. 

 

I always wonder how much of my income people think they're entitled to.  After federal, state, social security and medicare, local taxes, property taxes, sales taxes, luxury taxes, road tolls, etc I already pay upwards of 40% of my earnings in taxes.  I'm told this isn't enough, and that I'm not paying my fair share because my taxes don't hurt me as much as taxes hurt those who earn less.

 

That's an absurd proposition.  How much do they want?

[first_and_ten]

12 minutes ago, keepthefaith said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2017/12/18/trump-and-the-gop-are-rigging-our-tax-system-for-the-rich-this-new-report-explains-how/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.144958e58fbc

More crap.  The new tax code was designed to provide businesses lower taxes yet the article is railing against businesses paying lower taxes.  Duh. Using the real estate example provided in the article, people in that business are already operating those businesses as LLC's or S-corps.  Those aren't loopholes, they're ordinary business filings.  They are already there.  The method of taxation pre and post the new tax bill hasn't changed.  Only the rates have.    Again the whole point of the tax breaks was to tax people and especially businesses of all kinds less.  That's what this does.  Taxes are real business expenses that prevent businesses and people from spending that money on other things.  Less of that is better for business.  

 

If you are a person who thinks that it's OK for federal and state governments to collectively demand 40+ percent (some near 50%) of some people's income, then we can't even communicate. 

 did you even read what i wrote?...why did I waste my time on someone who chooses to remain blind? I'm so happy the billionaires have people like you to fight for the unfair taxes they pay..LOL ...last time I checked unemployment was at record lows..before the tax cut that wasn't needed....they gave out one time bonuses so the republicans and trump could show how great the plan was working. LOL..how can you be so GULLIBLE MAN!!!!!!...I'm done with you...

[TakeYouToTasker]

Just now, first_and_ten said:

 did you even read what i wrote?...why did I waste my time on someone who chooses to remain blind? I'm so happy the billionaires have people like you to fight for the unfair taxes they pay..LOL ...last time I checked unemployment was at record lows..before the tax cut that wasn't needed....they gave out one time bonuses so the republicans and trump could show how great the plan was working. LOL..how can you be so GULLIBLE MAN!!!!!!...I'm done with you...

 

Ah, the politics of jealousy.  What makes you think you're entitled to another person's earnings at all?

[boyst]

2 minutes ago, first_and_ten said:

 did you even read what i wrote?...why did I waste my time on someone who chooses to remain blind? I'm so happy the billionaires have people like you to fight for the unfair taxes they pay..LOL ...last time I checked unemployment was at record lows..before the tax cut that wasn't needed....they gave out one time bonuses so the republicans and trump could show how great the plan was working. LOL..how can you be so GULLIBLE MAN!!!!!!...I'm done with you...

It's like watching a dog chase his tail. Keep going like bro, you're gonna catch it!

 

A 3 legged dog, at that. 1st and tail

Edited April 26, 2018 by Boyst62

[first_and_ten]

1 minute ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

 

Ah, the politics of jealousy.  What makes you think you're entitled to another person's earnings at all?

Is that really your argument? It's a crap article? I could say whatever you say is crap then. Argue better than that. Well here's a Washington Post article........

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2017/12/18/trump-and-the-gop-are-rigging-our-tax-system-for-the-rich-this-new-report-explains-how/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.144958e58fbc  ( but any article I show You will probably be crap to you since it doesn't fit your narrative)

 

Don't be so blind to the truth. Yes , they lowered most middle class taxes, although some will pay more. The real aim for this bill was to cut takes on the very rich. I could probably find hundreds of articles citing experts on this fact. 

 

Why do you think some larger companies paid their labor force one time bonuses instead of actual pay increases? I think you can figure that one out, right?

 

This bill makes it easier for wealthy business owners to manipulate the system to pay less takes, such as creating pass through entities. The problem , since corporate tax rates go to 21%, they are now taxed lower than individuals. This would seemingly make the pass through scheme not work.  But let's not worry wealthy people, Congress fixed this problem, lol.  They made it so income passed through an individual thru a pass through entity and attributed to a sole proprietorship will now be taxed at individual tax rates less a deduction of up to 20% to bring the rate lower. This is just one of the games they play to make this bill make the rich richer. C'mon, don't pretend these politicians are out to benefit the middle class, or the poor among us either for that matter. But that's another argument for another day. Remember when Paul Ryan touted a woman's raise of $1.50 as an example of how the tax plan was working? Not a $1.50 per hour 

!!!!  It was $1.50 per week !!!!! Can he be more out of touch??

 

This tax bill will make an already bad national debt issue much worse. Who's going to pay for this? I think you know the answer to that one too. This President is a con man. This tax bill was a scam on the American people. The Republican Congress is complicit. Throwing scarps to the middle class is not a fair and equitable tax plan. It's irresponsible too. No wonder Paul Ryan is bowing out.

1 minute ago, Boyst62 said:

It's like watching a dog chase his tail. Keep going like bro, you're gonna catch it!

 You;re actually right

[DC Tom]

1 minute ago, Boyst62 said:

It's like watching a dog chase his tail. Keep going like bro, you're gonna catch it!

 

Typical progressive argument, too...keep repeating the same accusation without stating any sort of rational argument supporting it, until people just get tired of listening.  Then declare "victory."

[first_and_ten]

Just now, DC Tom said:

 

Typical progressive argument, too...keep repeating the same accusation without stating any sort of rational argument supporting it, until people just get tired of listening.  Then declare "victory."

 Another Moron who didn't take the time to read what I wrote. Stay blind and keep kissing Trump's butt while he keeps laughing at you. The con man n chief. Now tommy boy, you can commence with the cursing, as per your usual 

[3rdnlng]

5 minutes ago, first_and_ten said:

Is that really your argument? It's a crap article? I could say whatever you say is crap then. Argue better than that. Well here's a Washington Post article........

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2017/12/18/trump-and-the-gop-are-rigging-our-tax-system-for-the-rich-this-new-report-explains-how/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.144958e58fbc  ( but any article I show You will probably be crap to you since it doesn't fit your narrative)

 

Don't be so blind to the truth. Yes , they lowered most middle class taxes, although some will pay more. The real aim for this bill was to cut takes on the very rich. I could probably find hundreds of articles citing experts on this fact. 

 

Why do you think some larger companies paid their labor force one time bonuses instead of actual pay increases? I think you can figure that one out, right?

 

This bill makes it easier for wealthy business owners to manipulate the system to pay less takes, such as creating pass through entities. The problem , since corporate tax rates go to 21%, they are now taxed lower than individuals. This would seemingly make the pass through scheme not work.  But let's not worry wealthy people, Congress fixed this problem, lol.  They made it so income passed through an individual thru a pass through entity and attributed to a sole proprietorship will now be taxed at individual tax rates less a deduction of up to 20% to bring the rate lower. This is just one of the games they play to make this bill make the rich richer. C'mon, don't pretend these politicians are out to benefit the middle class, or the poor among us either for that matter. But that's another argument for another day. Remember when Paul Ryan touted a woman's raise of $1.50 as an example of how the tax plan was working? Not a $1.50 per hour 

!!!!  It was $1.50 per week !!!!! Can he be more out of touch??

 

This tax bill will make an already bad national debt issue much worse. Who's going to pay for this? I think you know the answer to that one too. This President is a con man. This tax bill was a scam on the American people. The Republican Congress is complicit. Throwing scarps to the middle class is not a fair and equitable tax plan. It's irresponsible too. No wonder Paul Ryan is bowing out.

 You;re actually right

Did you always have this problem?

[first_and_ten]

Just now, 3rdnlng said:

Did you always have this problem?

 What are you talking about?

[Deranged Rhino]

1 minute ago, first_and_ten said:

 Another Moron who didn't take the time to read what I wrote. Stay blind and keep kissing Trump's butt while he keeps laughing at you. The con man n chief. Now tommy boy, you can commence with the cursing, as per your usual 

 

You picked one of the (many) down here who are not Trumpers... and accused him of being a Trump supporter... while accusing him of not taking the time to read what you wrote. 

 

Read more of what others have written down here. You'd be surprised. There are less Trump supporters down here than you think. Far, far less. 

[TakeYouToTasker]

8 minutes ago, first_and_ten said:

Is that really your argument? It's a crap article? I could say whatever you say is crap then. Argue better than that. Well here's a Washington Post article........

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2017/12/18/trump-and-the-gop-are-rigging-our-tax-system-for-the-rich-this-new-report-explains-how/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.144958e58fbc  ( but any article I show You will probably be crap to you since it doesn't fit your narrative)

 

Don't be so blind to the truth. Yes , they lowered most middle class taxes, although some will pay more. The real aim for this bill was to cut takes on the very rich. I could probably find hundreds of articles citing experts on this fact. 

 

Why do you think some larger companies paid their labor force one time bonuses instead of actual pay increases? I think you can figure that one out, right?

 

This bill makes it easier for wealthy business owners to manipulate the system to pay less takes, such as creating pass through entities. The problem , since corporate tax rates go to 21%, they are now taxed lower than individuals. This would seemingly make the pass through scheme not work.  But let's not worry wealthy people, Congress fixed this problem, lol.  They made it so income passed through an individual thru a pass through entity and attributed to a sole proprietorship will now be taxed at individual tax rates less a deduction of up to 20% to bring the rate lower. This is just one of the games they play to make this bill make the rich richer. C'mon, don't pretend these politicians are out to benefit the middle class, or the poor among us either for that matter. But that's another argument for another day. Remember when Paul Ryan touted a woman's raise of $1.50 as an example of how the tax plan was working? Not a $1.50 per hour 

!!!!  It was $1.50 per week !!!!! Can he be more out of touch??

 

This tax bill will make an already bad national debt issue much worse. Who's going to pay for this? I think you know the answer to that one too. This President is a con man. This tax bill was a scam on the American people. The Republican Congress is complicit. Throwing scarps to the middle class is not a fair and equitable tax plan. It's irresponsible too. No wonder Paul Ryan is bowing out.

 You;re actually right

 

This isn't coherent.  Can you please structure this in a way that makes sense to the reader?  I'm more than happy to have this conversation with you, but we can't start here.