Difference between Jackson and Taylor

[Jay_Fixit]

This is one of those threads that keeps me coming back.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 3/5/2018 at 7:56 PM, dlonce said:

(....)

Here are the facts.

Tyrod is mostly a one read QB who runs when his receiver isn’t open

Jackson is a one read QB who runs when his receiver isn’t open, PERIOD,Got it?

 

I don't agree that those are facts.

 

I think these are perceptions.  I actually started out reading some descriptions of Jackson that aligned with what you write and being against interest in him on that account.

 

Then I watched film (parts of 3 games plus some scouting videos or highlights) on all the top QB prospects plus White, Falk, and Lauletta.  I am not a football professional nor amateur.  But it is very clear on Jackson's tape from this past year that is NOT what Jackson was last year.  He avoids pressure, often by stepping up in the pocket, resets, and throws.  Part of his  sometime in-game inaccuracy is, in fact, that he will stand in and throw with pressure in his lap and he isn't methodical with his feet when he does this.

 

Then I went back to watch what film I could find of Taylor, and I would agree he was pretty much a one-read QB who would sometimes buy time with his feet to let a deep play develop.   It is also well documented that the offense at V-Tech when Taylor was there, was pretty much a one-read offense; Petrino's offense at Louisville is not that thing.  I believe even Hokie fans will confirm this.

 

So no, Dont Got it.

 

 

18 hours ago, TigerJ said:

If the Bills do end up drafting Lamar Jackson, it makes some sense to retain Tyrod as a mentor.  As has been stated, both are QBs who run some and throw some.  It would be easier on Daboll as OC to be able to think in terms of having the same offense for both if one is the starter and the other the primary backup.

 

18 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I do wonder if that is the real reason behind some of these posts......they dont want to say it but they think drafting Lamar Jackson means retaining Tyrod Taylor as the bridge.

 

I have the unpopular view that the Bills may retain Tyrod Taylor whoever they draft because 1) he is under contract 2) they want a veteran for leadership and to demonstrate good work ethic/attitude 3) they don't want to cut TT until they have a new "bird in the hand" but by the time they sign a different FA and pay TT his bonus, the savings will be minimal 4) they may feel he is as good or better as a FA QB they could bring in short-term at a reasonable price

 

I think the "QB who can throw and make yards with his feet so good mentor" thing is over-rated because both QB will be learning a new offensive system and Tyrod does NOT demonstrate the self-protection skills any NFL team who drafts Jackson will want him to master.

[The Jokeman]

3 hours ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

Cunningham was a very good QB, and successful.

Unless you think that any QB who didn't make a SB/win a SB wasn't successful.

Marino went to one SB in his career.

He has less SB wins that Brad Johnson and Trent dilfer do.

Again it's how you define a QB. If ask me to rate the QBs listed I'd go with Marino, Cunningham, Brad Johnson and Dilfer. Yet Cunningham was far from elite. As I'd couple him in with Andy Dalton today. As both at times can be above average but not elite.

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Except that, for someone who watches Jackson's film, that is clearly not what he did this year.

 

So either he is not a "truly gifted running QB" or actually, it was possible to teach him otherwise.

 

John Elway's career completion percentage is 56.9%.  Dan Marino, probably noted as the best passer of that era, 59.4%.  Elway and Cunningham played in a different era when 56.6% was pretty good.

Elway and Marino made the HOF, Randall didn't. Care to tell me why?

[ngbills]

So much more to the comparison of college stats between guys. Look at the list below of top 20 passing seasons. How many of these guys had good NFL careers?

 

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/leaders/pass-yds-player-season.html

 

1	B.J. Symons*	5833	2003	Texas Tech
2	Graham Harrell*	5705	2007	Texas Tech
3	Case Keenum*	5671	2009	Houston
4	Case Keenum*	5631	2011	Houston
5	Colt Brennan*	5549	2006	Hawaii
6	Ty Detmer	5188	1990	Brigham Young
7	David Klingler	5140	1990	Houston
8	Graham Harrell*	5111	2008	Texas Tech
9	Derek Carr*	5083	2013	Fresno State
10	Paul Smith*	5065	2007	Tulsa
11	Brandon Doughty*	5055	2015	Western Kentucky
12	Patrick Mahomes	5052	2016	Texas Tech
13	Bryant Moniz*	5040	2010	Hawaii
14	Case Keenum*	5020	2008	Houston
15	Kliff Kingsbury*	5017	2002	Texas Tech
16	Matt Johnson*	4946	2015	Bowling Green State
17	Tim Rattay	4943	1998	Louisiana Tech
18	Mason Rudolph*	4904	2017	Oklahoma State
19	David Carr*	4839	2001	Fresno State
20	Brandon Doughty*	4830	2014	Western Kentucky

[Bing Bong]

On ‎3‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 10:37 PM, Teddy KGB said:

Another Vick.     Might work, might not.  

 

 

I'd be fine with a Vick, he was pretty great for some pretty bad Falcons teams.

20 minutes ago, ngbills said:

So much more to the comparison of college stats between guys. Look at the list below of top 20 passing seasons. How many of these guys had good NFL careers?

 

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/leaders/pass-yds-player-season.html

 

1	B.J. Symons*	5833	2003	Texas Tech
2	Graham Harrell*	5705	2007	Texas Tech
3	Case Keenum*	5671	2009	Houston
4	Case Keenum*	5631	2011	Houston
5	Colt Brennan*	5549	2006	Hawaii
6	Ty Detmer	5188	1990	Brigham Young
7	David Klingler	5140	1990	Houston
8	Graham Harrell*	5111	2008	Texas Tech
9	Derek Carr*	5083	2013	Fresno State
10	Paul Smith*	5065	2007	Tulsa
11	Brandon Doughty*	5055	2015	Western Kentucky
12	Patrick Mahomes	5052	2016	Texas Tech
13	Bryant Moniz*	5040	2010	Hawaii
14	Case Keenum*	5020	2008	Houston
15	Kliff Kingsbury*	5017	2002	Texas Tech
16	Matt Johnson*	4946	2015	Bowling Green State
17	Tim Rattay	4943	1998	Louisiana Tech
18	Mason Rudolph*	4904	2017	Oklahoma State
19	David Carr*	4839	2001	Fresno State
20	Brandon Doughty*	4830	2014	Western Kentucky

A lot? I'd say 4 capable people from any list of 20 college quarterbacks says something about the stat. Obviously passing yards isn't the end all be all. But I'm sure you'd be hard pressed to find another stat that has more capable quarterbacks in the top 20.

[ndirish1978]

The "observations" that people  on this board make about Jackson are hilariously uneducated, but they are perpetuated by the media, often at the behest of unnamed sources that have an interest in these guys being drafted. Black QBs who can run, they play up their athleticism and lump everyone together like no one knows how to run through a progression; Injury histories of good prospects that have recent injuries get played up; outspoken players get labelled as having red flags for things half the teams don't care about - this is all a game people. 

[Bing Bong]

25 minutes ago, ngbills said:

6 Ty Detmer 5188 1990 Brigham Young

Ty Detmer educated Favre on what a Nickel defense is.

Brett: "Ty, what's a Nickel defense"

Ty: "are you serious? Well Brett, it's where they take out a line backer and add another DB"

Brett: "oh.. who gives a ****"

[SouthNYfan]

1 hour ago, The Jokeman said:

Again it's how you define a QB. If ask me to rate the QBs listed I'd go with Marino, Cunningham, Brad Johnson and Dilfer. Yet Cunningham was far from elite. As I'd couple him in with Andy Dalton today. As both at times can be above average but not elite.

Elway and Marino made the HOF, Randall didn't. Care to tell me why?

 

Cunningham should be.

HoF bias is pretty clean in some cases.

The guy revolutionized the QB position, paving the way for hyper athletic guys like Vick, Wilson, Newton, etc

He had two big injuries during 91 and 93 if I remember correctly.

The guy should be in the hall.

He is well above Andy Dalton.

[BuffaLoko]

On 3/3/2018 at 11:25 PM, jr1 said:

I like this clip because it shows his escapability and arm strength 

 

D@mn! I had not seen this clip before, but he made that throw look way to0 easy, it seems like he did not even extended this whole arm, nor had stable footing, ...

Edited March 7, 2018 by BuffaLoko

[PrimeTime101]

14 hours ago, jmc12290 said:

Jackson is not a last resort runner a la Watson.  This is just 100% dead wrong.

Didn't watch much video on him huh?

11 hours ago, Jay_Fixit said:

This is one of those threads that keeps me coming back.

Yea its like a lays potato chip.. cant just have one haha!

8 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

Again it's how you define a QB. If ask me to rate the QBs listed I'd go with Marino, Cunningham, Brad Johnson and Dilfer. Yet Cunningham was far from elite. As I'd couple him in with Andy Dalton today. As both at times can be above average but not elite.

Elway and Marino made the HOF, Randall didn't. Care to tell me why?

Interesting question with an easy answer. Randall was a choke in playoff games.

7 hours ago, ngbills said:

So much more to the comparison of college stats between guys. Look at the list below of top 20 passing seasons. How many of these guys had good NFL careers?

 

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/leaders/pass-yds-player-season.html

 

1	B.J. Symons*	5833	2003	Texas Tech
2	Graham Harrell*	5705	2007	Texas Tech
3	Case Keenum*	5671	2009	Houston
4	Case Keenum*	5631	2011	Houston
5	Colt Brennan*	5549	2006	Hawaii
6	Ty Detmer	5188	1990	Brigham Young
7	David Klingler	5140	1990	Houston
8	Graham Harrell*	5111	2008	Texas Tech
9	Derek Carr*	5083	2013	Fresno State
10	Paul Smith*	5065	2007	Tulsa
11	Brandon Doughty*	5055	2015	Western Kentucky
12	Patrick Mahomes	5052	2016	Texas Tech
13	Bryant Moniz*	5040	2010	Hawaii
14	Case Keenum*	5020	2008	Houston
15	Kliff Kingsbury*	5017	2002	Texas Tech
16	Matt Johnson*	4946	2015	Bowling Green State
17	Tim Rattay	4943	1998	Louisiana Tech
18	Mason Rudolph*	4904	2017	Oklahoma State
19	David Carr*	4839	2001	Fresno State
20	Brandon Doughty*	4830	2014	Western Kentucky

Well.. The book is not written yet on Keenum thus cant really answer that really well now can we?