MAJBobby Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Just now, Kelly the Dog said: Taylor. It's intellectually dishonest to claim Cassel. So Taylor took the first snap of the game at QB? Taylor 100% started that game just as WR. Those are the facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: So Taylor took the first snap of the game at QB? Taylor 100% started that game just as WR. Those are the facts You are being very disingenuous here. also, why do you even care anyway given how silly the argument that Cassell "started" (much less deserves credit for the victory) is? Do you dislike Taylor that much? Dog is certainly right about intellectual dishonesty too. Edited February 3, 2018 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 1 minute ago, MAJBobby said: So Taylor took the first snap of the game at QB? Taylor 100% started that game just as WR. Those are the facts Yep. The intellectually dishonest facts. Although I'm not inferring you are intellectual, just dishonest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Missing the point. The point is SBF specifying "half dozen" expect TT to be here is off by an order of mag. Not whether or not more people want him to be, or expect him to be - that's clear uh, okay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 1 minute ago, dave mcbride said: You are being very disingenuous here. also, why do you even care anyway given how silly the argument that Cassell "started" (much less deserves credit for the victory) is? Do you dislike Taylor that much? Dog is certainly right about intellectual dishonesty too. I have not been talking bad about Taylor at all in a long time. But the facts remain. Cassel took the 1st snap of the game at QB. Taylor at WR. So for that game Taylor was the starting WR and Cassel the starting QB. Those are the facts https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starting_lineup 4 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: You are being very disingenuous here. also, why do you even care anyway given how silly the argument that Cassell "started" (much less deserves credit for the victory) is? Do you dislike Taylor that much? Dog is certainly right about intellectual dishonesty too. Ok put it this way. All three QBs had a Million dollar bonus tied to who opens the season as the Starter. (First snap of the season) who gets that Bonus Taylor or Cassel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: I have not been talking bad about Taylor at all in a long time. But the facts remain. Cassel took the 1st snap of the game at QB. Taylor at WR. So for that game Taylor was the starting WR and Cassel the starting QB. Those are the facts https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starting_lineup Ok put it this way. All three QBs had a Million dollar bonus tied to who opens the season as the Starter. (First snap of the season) who gets that Bonus Taylor or Cassel Who cares?? Which qb contributed zero to the victory and which qb contributed everything?????????? one qb played one play and handed it off for a six yard loss. The other qb made every pass in the game and had a passer rating of 120 or something (over 10 yards per pass and 73 percent completion rate). Who contributed to the victory and who didn't? Who therefore deserves credit for the victory? Answer me that before saying anything else. (Also, bear in mind that I don't even like qb win-loss stats. That said, they're the world we live in, and if he is going to be judged on them, he should get credit where credit is due.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: Who cares?? Which qb contributed zero to the victory and which qb contributed everything?????????? one qb played one play and handed it off for a six yard loss. The other qb made every pass in the game and had a passer rating of 120 or something (over 10 yards per pass and 73 percent completion rate). Who contributed to the victory and who didn't? Who therefore deserves credit for the victory? Answer me that before saying anything else. (Also, bear in mind that I don't even like qb win-loss stats. That said, they're the world we live in, and if he is going to be judged on them, he should get credit where credit is due.) Well the win goes to the starter. That is the stat and the flaw for using a Team stat to defend a QB. So we agree if there was a bonus tied to opening day Starter it would go to Cassel. Thanks all i needed now back to watching for the real conversation on where TT goes in the offseason like i was having if he doesnt take a paycut Edited February 3, 2018 by MAJBobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 8 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: I have not been talking bad about Taylor at all in a long time. But the facts remain. Cassel took the 1st snap of the game at QB. Taylor at WR. So for that game Taylor was the starting WR and Cassel the starting QB. Those are the facts https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starting_lineup Ok put it this way. All three QBs had a Million dollar bonus tied to who opens the season as the Starter. (First snap of the season) who gets that Bonus Taylor or Cassel I know this one. If the team was stupid enough to give it to Cassel, which they wouldn't be, Cassel would give the million to Taylor. 3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: Who cares?? Which qb contributed zero to the victory and which qb contributed everything?????????? one qb played one play and handed it off for a six yard loss. The other qb made every pass in the game and had a passer rating of 120 or something (over 10 yards per pass and 73 percent completion rate). Who contributed to the victory and who didn't? Who therefore deserves credit for the victory? Answer me that before saying anything else. (Also, bear in mind that I don't even like qb win-loss stats. That said, they're the world we live in, and if he is going to be judged on them, he should get credit where credit is due.) It's comical for anyone to defend the idea that Cassel was the starter. Cassel wouldn't say that, unless in a joke. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 3 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Well the win goes to the starter. That is the stat and the flaw for using a Team stat to defend a QB. So we agree if there was a bonus tied to opening day Starter it would go to Cassel. Thanks all i needed now back to watching for the real conversation on where TT goes in the offseason like i was having if he doesnt take a paycut I have no idea if there was a bonus and frankly don't care because it's utterly irrelevant to the conversation, the subject of which is rightful credit. You're trying to change the subject, and it feels to me like the worst sort of technicality-based lawyering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: I have no idea if there was a bonus and frankly don't care because it's utterly irrelevant to the conversation, the subject of which is rightful credit. You're trying to change the subject, and it feels to me like the worst sort of technicality-based lawyering. Nope i am not. Some want to add a team stat win number to the official stats to make their agenda point stronger. The reality is you have a 22-20 (though as you said about the bonus I frankly dont care. Lazy point to defend a QB that way) QB that some are trying to skew by adding another win. In that case should add the LA Loss to him seeing he contributed just as much to that loss as Peterman did Edited February 3, 2018 by MAJBobby 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 3 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: In that case should add the LA Loss to him seeing he contributed just as much to that loss as Peterman did The second half was 17-17 during the entire time Tyrod played. Peterman's Half was 37-7. So you're wrong on this again. Those, as you say, are the facts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Just now, Kelly the Dog said: The second half was 17-17 during the entire time Tyrod played. Peterman's Half was 37-7. So you're wrong on this again. Nope want to add a phantom win (who started the game) then I add a phantom loss. If we want to manipulate stats then cool i will play that game so keep trying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Just now, MAJBobby said: Nope want to add a phantom win (who started the game) then I add a phantom loss. If we want to manipulate stats then cool i will play that game so keep trying How do you conclude a player contributed equally to a loss when his team scored exactly as many points as his opposition? Alternative stats? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Nope want to add a phantom win (who started the game) then I add a phantom loss. If we want to manipulate stats then cool i will play that game so keep trying This post makes no logical sense. Really. I am out; I feel like I am losing brain cells at this point by engaging in such a silly debate. I also feel like I'm dealing with a 22-20 truther. Edited February 3, 2018 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Just now, Kelly the Dog said: How do you conclude a player contributed equally to a loss when his team scored exactly as many points as his opposition? Alternative stats? Once again last comment. Here is the NFL official Definition and i am done playing manipulation games. What is Starter? A player in football who begins any given game or season as the first to play to a specific position on a team. So TT is a 22-20 QB. Yes those are real facts IAW the NFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 55 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: No he didn't. Taylor did. They simply ran a trick play at the outset with Taylor out wide. It was designed to fool the Colts' defense who knew Taylor was the starter. Cassell didn't play another down. It wasn't even as if Taylor was on the sideline for that play. 53 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: That kind of technicality, and letter of the law versus spirit of the law stance is obnoxious as hell. Meaning I agree with you 100%. I hear you. But here's the thing Dave McBride said. 1 hour ago, dave mcbride said: 23-20, not 22-20. Someone has to alert the official stat keepers about this. Cassell was NOT the starter that game and should not get the win. Play one was a freaking trick play, for chrissake. The official stat keepers have to have rules. They don't interpret the stats, they just record them. Cassell started that game. If someone says that Taylor doesn't deserve credit for the win because he didn't start, they are being disingenuous. But to call into question the stat keepers is to subject the entire process of stat collection to subjective interpretation rather than objective and factual evidence. Cassell started that game at QB. That's a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 1 minute ago, MAJBobby said: Once again last comment. Here is the NFL official Definition and i am done playing manipulation games. What is Starter? A player in football who begins any given game or season as the first to play to a specific position on a team. So TT is a 22-20 QB. Yes those are real facts IAW the NFL According to that definition Cassel was the starter the entire season. Your an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 (edited) 19 hours ago, #34fan said: Can't wait until this scrub is someone else's problem.. How is he a problem here? I dont get this kind of venom. He works harder than anyone on the team, didn't complain with his benching, always a leader and good team mate and led the Bills to snap the 17 year streak. Not to mention he is tough as nails man, he stands in there and takes big shot after big shot and gets back up. For a running QB, he isn't afraid to take a hit to try and get the ball out. He has done a LOT for the Bills despite 2 years of terrible coaching and a terrible D, terrible weapons due to injuries, FA, and trades almost the whole 3 years, a terrible pass blocking OL, 3 different OCs in 3 years and 2 HC changes, and a fan base that doesn't appreciate what he does do right on the field and only focuses on how he isn't a prolific passer. I get people wanting to try something different at QB, but the amount of hate he gets here is just crazy. He is no where near as bad as people make him out to be, and has done what no one since Kelly has done despite a SIGNIFICANT amount of things working against him. Is he the answer moving forward, doesn't look like it, but to call him a problem is unnecessary. It can get a LOT worse than TT. I dont blame him for not wanting to take a pay cut, he already did it. Edited February 3, 2018 by Alphadawg7 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 1 minute ago, jmc12290 said: I hear you. But here's the thing Dave McBride said. The official stat keepers have to have rules. They don't interpret the stats, they just record them. Cassell started that game. If someone says that Taylor doesn't deserve credit for the win because he didn't start, they are being disingenuous. But to call into question the stat keepers is to subject the entire process of stat collection to subjective interpretation rather than objective and factual evidence. Cassell started that game at QB. That's a fact. Taylor was the announced starter of the game. They ran a trick play. It's probably the only game in NFL history where a qb in Cassell's position got a phantom victory. It's not as if this is a regular occurrence. It is, quite literally, unique and should be treated as such and dealt with accordingly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 1 minute ago, Kelly the Dog said: According to that definition Cassel was the starter the entire season. Your an idiot. According to NFL definition he started the 2015 season yep. And he started that first game. Yep. So again TT by definition is 22-20 as a starter those are the facts IAW the NFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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