PolishDave Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 11 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: By that measure the OC's of the bottom 10 offenses should be fired each year. That's flat out bad management, and any manager of a pro football team or a Fortune 500 company will tell you that. Some probably should be fired. It matters where you started from though and which direction your arrow is pointing. The Bills offense was much better before Dennison took over control of it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 21 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: The thing that we disagree on the most is that McDermott has no problem pulling the plug. He pulled it on Dareus, Sammy, Darby, Tyrod, etc... Those weren't his people. Big difference. McD brought Dennison to Buffalo and I don't think he will be quick to let him go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Shaw66 said: Plus, there's a lot to be said about continuity. Let the oline play the same blocking schemes for a second season. Let the receivers work within the system they learned this year. Let Tyrod, if somehow he turns out to be the guy, have a second season in the system. One reason Belichick has succeeded is that he's run the same offense and the same defense since he's been there. There's great carryover from year to year. I fundamentally agree with many of your points. Change for the sake of change is detrimental. But I'm also reminded of this demotivator: Small point: Certainly Belichick has had long stretches of stability on O and on D, and that has been huge for the Patriots long-term success. But he really hasn't run exactly the same offense (certainly) since he's been there. There are a couple articles I can't find right now on how it's changed between Weis, McDaniels first stint, O'Brien, and McDaniels second stint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 1 minute ago, Shaw66 said: Those weren't his people. Big difference. McD brought Dennison to Buffalo and I don't think he will be quick to let him go. Do you think Dennison is his guy though being that (rumored) he was his 3rd choice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 1 minute ago, Shaw66 said: Those weren't his people. Big difference. McD brought Dennison to Buffalo and I don't think he will be quick to let him go. He brought him here as the tallest midget. The guy that he wanted is now available. People even thought that Dorsey was an option. He’s out there too. He settled on Dennison. Dennison was a disaster. I see no way he doesn’t pull the plug and go get the guy that he wanted to begin with. If a year ago he preferred McCoy to Dennison what did Dennison accomplish this year to change his mind? He was awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: He brought him here as the tallest midget. The guy that he wanted is now available. People even thought that Dorsey was an option. He’s out there too. He settled on Dennison. Dennison was a disaster. I see no way he doesn’t pull the plug and go get the guy that he wanted to begin with. If a year ago he preferred McCoy to Dennison what did Dennison accomplish this year to change his mind? He was awful. Let's not divert this topic over to Dunkirk Don's porno collection. Try to focus. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elite Poster Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 9 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Please don't make me revise my opinion of Buffalo Bills fan football smarts downward by this much. You're pulling down the average and ruining the curve. It has been an open question how much of past success was Kubiak and how much was Dennison. Fair question. It's also an open question whether he has the creativity and flexibility to work with a non-traditional QB like Taylor successfully. But to say "the guy has no idea what it takes" when he's had two successful stints as OC on playoff teams and in fact was OC when his team won the Superbowl is just dumb. Or trollish, of which we seem to have an unfortunate infestation these days. You could be a Superbowl winning OC if your QB was Peyton. 20 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: Those weren't his people. Big difference. McD brought Dennison to Buffalo and I don't think he will be quick to let him go. Yep, mind you guys Tolbert took a delayed handoff for a loss on 2nd and 10 in the biggest game of this millennia. Dennison is a joke. All the people saying he needs a QB that can play in his system, justify his obsession with horrible, HORRIBLE play calling paired with the wrong personnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillyG Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 9 hours ago, Yeezus said: what scheme? the one from the 1980's that no team in todays NFL has had success with? this is a passing league. The Bills won't win anything if they run the ball more then they pass. name 1 team still in the playoffs that has a run first offense. his scheme is !@#$ing garbage. Well, Jacksonville for one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chadwick Bay Chad Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 (edited) Dennison firing imminent Edited January 10, 2018 by Chadwick Bay Chad 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 I've said this before, if you are going to change Quarterbacks, this is the BEST time to change the OC as well. This keeps the signal caller from learning a new system. So...IMHO it all revolves around whether Tyrod stays or goes. This is a management call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Shaw66 said: By that measure the OC's of the bottom 10 offenses should be fired each year. That's flat out bad management, and any manager of a pro football team or a Fortune 500 complany will tell you that. May very well be on the OC. It's bad coaching to ask your players to do what they can't do. If Tyrod couldn't find the open receivers, it could mean the coaching was bad. I agree with the caveat that Jack Welch fired his lowest 10% and GE turned out pretty well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedboy7 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Such an interesting thread. Again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said: He brought him here as the tallest midget. The guy that he wanted is now available. People even thought that Dorsey was an option. He’s out there too. He settled on Dennison. Dennison was a disaster. I see no way he doesn’t pull the plug and go get the guy that he wanted to begin with. If a year ago he preferred McCoy to Dennison what did Dennison accomplish this year to change his mind? He was awful. I hope you're right 21 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: I agree with the caveat that Jack Welch fired his lowest 10% and GE turned out pretty well. Some would appear to disagree with you Edited January 11, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Just thinking out loud, does anyone think that McDermott is working behind the scenes to get a guy before canning Rico? Remember there were rumors of Beane before he was hired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 (edited) 1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said: Just thinking out loud, does anyone think that McDermott is working behind the scenes to get a guy before canning Rico? Remember there were rumors of Beane before he was hired. I think 100% for sure. If he really wants to move on that is. Edited January 11, 2018 by PolishDave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I hope you're right Some would appear to disagree with you Couldn't open it. Perhaps it was an urban legend? Regardless, McD will do what he does. He will evaluate the performance of his OC and if he feels a change is needed to improve the team he will do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 I don't agree with the thesis going around that Dennison couldn't get a fair shot at showing what he is capable of b/c Tyrod is so bad. On the contrary, having an obvious handicap at QB was a golden opportunity for Dennison to show what he can do as an OC. There was ZERO inventiveness in play design, nor did he capitalize on the one thing Tyrod can do well: run/be mobile. I think Dennison is a dud hire and hope he is fired soon. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsMafioso Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 2 hours ago, Fadingpain said: I don't agree with the thesis going around that Dennison couldn't get a fair shot at showing what he is capable of b/c Tyrod is so bad. On the contrary, having an obvious handicap at QB was a golden opportunity for Dennison to show what he can do as an OC. There was ZERO inventiveness in play design, nor did he capitalize on the one thing Tyrod can do well: run/be mobile. I think Dennison is a dud hire and hope he is fired soon. Just yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capco Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 5 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Small point: Certainly Belichick has had long stretches of stability on O and on D, and that has been huge for the Patriots long-term success. But he really hasn't run exactly the same offense (certainly) since he's been there. There are a couple articles I can't find right now on how it's changed between Weis, McDaniels first stint, O'Brien, and McDaniels second stint. Afaik, all the OCs have run some form of the Erhardt-Perkins offensive system. They might have all added their own wrinkles, but the fundamentals and terminology of the system has been in place for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 37 minutes ago, Capco said: Afaik, all the OCs have run some form of the Erhardt-Perkins offensive system. They might have all added their own wrinkles, but the fundamentals and terminology of the system has been in place for years. AFAIK you're right on the E-P and the fundamentals staying the same, but the terminology and plays have changed. I'd look for those articles but Man, it's the f**kin' Pats***, and right now, I just don't have the heart (or maybe it's stomach) to get it done. It really doesn't change the fundamental point of the OP, which was that stability in scheme and in coaching has contributed greatly to the Pats*** long term success. 3 hours ago, Fadingpain said: I don't agree with the thesis going around that Dennison couldn't get a fair shot at showing what he is capable of b/c Tyrod is so bad. On the contrary, having an obvious handicap at QB was a golden opportunity for Dennison to show what he can do as an OC. There was ZERO inventiveness in play design, nor did he capitalize on the one thing Tyrod can do well: run/be mobile. I think Dennison is a dud hire and hope he is fired soon. I just linked an analysis by Nate Turner where I believe he would disagree with you on the lack of inventiveness. I'm uncertain. I respect Nate, but I lean more towards your point that inventiveness only matters in context; if you can't invent plays that your players can execute successfully week in and week out, it's just clever for clever's sake. If the Bills keep Dennison and invest heavily at bringing in a QB who can play in his system, OL who can block as he wants, and WR that actually do scare DB a bit, I'm OK with that. I'm very concerned about him as the right guy to bring along a rookie QB. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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