starrymessenger Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 1 minute ago, jrober38 said: This simply isn't true about my past. And for each guy you name, there are many more like them who didn't work. Paxton Lynch - great athlete, terrible QB. Christian Hackenberg - great athlete, great intangibles, terrible QB. EJ Manuel - great athlete, great intangibles, terrible QB. Blaine Gabbert - great athlete, terrible QB. Tim Tebow - great athlete, great intangibles, terrible QB. Josh Freeman - great athlete, terrible QB. Jake Locker - great athlete, great intangibles, terrible QB. Jamarcus Russell - great athlete, terrible QB. JP Losman - great athlete, terrible QB. Vince Young - great athlete, terrible QB. Jason Campbell - great athlete, terrible QB. Kyle Boller - great athlete, terrible QB. David Carr - great athlete, terrible QB. Tim Couch - great athlete, terrible QB. Akili Smith - great athlete, terrible QB. You get the idea. Newton and Allen are nothing alike. One is a quality football player who carried a team through a tough SEC schedule to a National Title, and the other was just a mediocre QB in a subpar conference. I get the idea. It's pretty simplistic. Of course there are more who fail than succeed. A good QB, let alone a great one, is hard to find. Odd that the football professionals will be taking "a mediocre QB in a sub par conference" off the board at or near the top of the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 1 minute ago, starrymessenger said: I get the idea. It's pretty simplistic. Of course there are more who fail than succeed. A good QB, let alone a great one, is hard to find. Odd that the football professionals will be taking "a mediocre QB in a sub par conference" off the board at or near the top of the draft. The "football professionals" draft horrible QBs every year in the first round. Just because they're professionals doesn't even remotely mean they'll be right. College QBR has proven to be a good way to project NFL success. Guys with a QBR in college over 90 usually work out. Players who achieved that: Winston Mariota Wilson Newton Luck Manziel (only bust from the past 7 years) Allen's QBR this year was 52.6. No successful NFL QB has anywhere close to that level... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 7 minutes ago, jrober38 said: The "football professionals" draft horrible QBs every year in the first round. Just because they're professionals doesn't even remotely mean they'll be right. College QBR has proven to be a good way to project NFL success. Guys with a QBR in college over 90 usually work out. Players who achieved that: Winston Mariota Wilson Newton Luck Manziel (only bust from the past 7 years) Allen's QBR this year was 52.6. No successful NFL QB has anywhere close to that level... Absolutely no supporting cast. None. Like I said, Sam Darnold would not have looked any better, indeed probably worse, QBing that team in that conference. As BRooklyn Bills has noted above, if he had spent the last two years at a football factory with good receivers and a running game the production would be there. There is a clutch of QBs with much better stats who will be taken after, some long after, he will be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigK14094 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Nice to have a qb who is varied in his skills to adapt to any coordinators specific scheme. But, how about hiring somebody who can take existing skills and put together a good offensive scheme. If you have lemons, make lemonaide so to speak. I worked in the corporate world for some years, and had to manage many different teams as I moved up the line. any success I had was because I had the folks working for me play to their strengths......round pegs in round holes....etc etc. Dennison didn't do that much this year with TT. If the Bills let TT go, then, they will have to sign a vet plus whoever they draft....unless, of course, they sign Cousins or other top shelf vet. Were I TT, I might want to get out of town here anyway.......get a shot with somebody who thinks well of me. Hence, I am predicting he will be let go after refusing to take a cut in pay next year. Denver or Arizona are calling I am guessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 (edited) I picked McCoy, Chudz is the fall back and Rudolph. I believe there is a chance it is Allen instead. With these guys come Alex Smith, or maybe a Minnesota QB instead IMO Edited January 10, 2018 by horned dogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, bigK14094 said: Nice to have a qb who is varied in his skills to adapt to any coordinators specific scheme. But, how about hiring somebody who can take existing skills and put together a good offensive scheme. If you have lemons, make lemonaide so to speak. I worked in the corporate world for some years, and had to manage many different teams as I moved up the line. any success I had was because I had the folks working for me play to their strengths......round pegs in round holes....etc etc. Dennison didn't do that much this year with TT. If the Bills let TT go, then, they will have to sign a vet plus whoever they draft....unless, of course, they sign Cousins or other top shelf vet. Were I TT, I might want to get out of town here anyway.......get a shot with somebody who thinks well of me. Hence, I am predicting he will be let go after refusing to take a cut in pay next year. Denver or Arizona are calling I am guessing. This is under the plan. While Beane did not say they were moving away from Denison or that Denison can’t or won’t do this. However, he said any qb they take will not be dependent on the OC in place (whoever that may be, because he may not be there forever) and that the coaches will need to scheme toward the QB’s strengths and his weaknesses. He did not say that he wanted to to draft a QB who can adapts to any OC’s scheme. Edited January 10, 2018 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Hoping for Mayfield for QB As far as OC I’ll say Chud but I’m not sure how I’d feel about that. Don’t have a favorite for OC atm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 7 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: This is under the plan. While Beane did not say they were moving away from Denison or that Denison can’t or won’t do this. However, he said any qb they take will not be dependent on the OC in place (whoever that may be, because he may not be there forever) and that the coaches will need to scheme toward the QB’s strengths and his weaknesses. He did not say that he wanted to to draft a QB who can adapts to any OC’s scheme. I work as I listen to WGR so I'm not completely focused....did I misinterpret this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 3 hours ago, Maynard said: I definitely think we’ll end up with Rudolph and I’m gonna guess McCoy That's my guess also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 2 hours ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said: I would rather have Brady's pocket awareness where he makes a small move that is always in the right direction to buy him a few more seconds. I will take pocket awareness over a athletic QB all day long. Brady's eyes are always looking down field even when he is moving in the pocket. As much as i would love to have a Brady clone....the chances of this happening are so friggen slim He is a generational qb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: I work as I listen to WGR so I'm not completely focused....did I misinterpret this? As far as i could tell. I wasn’t 100% focused either but what I gathered is that they will draft the QB they want, regardless of who the OC is and what the OC’s “scheme is.” It will be the coach’s job to adapt to the QB. Not the other way around. Reason being that the OC can change at any time. So for example they won’t draft a QB simply because he “fits the scheme” of Denison (or whoever). It’s very common to think a team will do that. Edited January 10, 2018 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 3 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Rudolph is the most likely QB to match availability and profile. OC.... I've gone for Rico still being here but with little confidence. I can't bring myself to imagine McCoy or Chud really. That would be so depressing. ....somebody mentioned John DeFilippo, Eagles QB Coach....any thoughts GB?................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 too much baggage Arrest won't keep Mayfield from combine invite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 LOL. There were only 7 votes for McCoy before DD predicted he was gonna get the job. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, jrober38 said: Please stop using college stats. They're completely irrelevant when projecting QBs to the NFL. maybe maybe not. a 2 to 1 TD to INT ration could be telling scouting reports could bear more weight though. Here's an example hard working kid that has improved every year, but it is unclear if he can play quarterback at the next level. He has a quick release and a strong arm, but he is somewhat erratic as a passer. also does not show the consistent sound decision making to be an efficient quarterback greatest asset is his athleticism and he should be able to contribute immediately as a running back, receiver or return man. A terrific senior season, where he completed nearly 60% of his passes STRENGTHS Has excellent mobility and continually evades the rush while keeping his eyes downfield. Has above average arm strength and flashes the ability to fit the ball into tight windows on short to intermediate routes. Team leader and fierce WEAKNESSES Does not possess adequate height and too many of his passes are knocked down at the line. Sloppy footwork prevents him from stepping into throws making him an erratic passer. Locks onto receivers and often telegraphs his throws. Struggles breaking down coverage and makes too many ill-advised throws. Not much has changed in 7 years 11 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said: LOL. There were only 7 votes for McCoy before DD predicted he was gonna get the job. its sad really. it is amazing how fraudulent people can sway someones mind Edited January 10, 2018 by ShadyBillsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 OC Rob Chudzinski QBs Ken Dorsey (FYI when Dorsey was at Miami setting a million records his OC was Rob Chudzinski and was a scout for Carolina during McDermott and Chudz crossover there) QB Josh Rosen or Sam Darnold...I think we find a way to trade up for one of the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 1 hour ago, starrymessenger said: Absolutely no supporting cast. None. Like I said, Sam Darnold would not have looked any better, indeed probably worse, QBing that team in that conference. As BRooklyn Bills has noted above, if he had spent the last two years at a football factory with good receivers and a running game the production would be there. There is a clutch of QBs with much better stats who will be taken after, some long after, he will be. I'm sorry, but relatively speaking none of these guys had a quality supporting cast. Not a single QB on the list I just mentioned played with a future NFL calibre receiver. And if he played at a football factory, in a power conference, he'd have played against better competition. His better receivers, would have been covered by better corners. His better line, would have had to block better pass rushers. The supporting cast argument never holds up. As soon as you have to start making excuses for why a college QB didn't perform, you're talking about a guy who almost certainly has no future as a NFL franchise QB. His performance, relative to his competition, was not good enough. Guys with his resume just don't work out in the NFL. If you want a great shot at an NFL QB, look for the guys who dominated college football. The guys who turned mediocre programs into BCS contenders while they were there. All of the guys I listed (Luck, Newton, Mariota, Wilson, etc) elevated their program and got them into a major Bowl. The same cannot be said about Josh Allen. He was just a middle of the road QB in a really bad conference. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xRUSHx Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 3 hours ago, jrober38 said: Comparing Cam Newton to Josh Allen makes me want to puke. Cam Newton was a 5 star recruit, Heisman Trophy Winner who dominated College Football. He put a mediocre Auburn team on his back and carried them to a National Title. Josh Allen was a nobody coming out of highschool, and just an average QB in the Mountain West Conference. He can throw the ball a mile, and run fast, but he's not a very good football player and he's shown hardly anything that suggests he makes the players around him better. A much better Josh Allen comparison would be EJ Manuel. Same size, same arm, same mobility, same accuracy problems, same reputation for being a mediocre college QB who couldn't elevate his team. I agree Josh Allen has the physical tools (6-foot-5, 230 pounds) that make scouts drool. But when someone looks good getting off the bus but not as good on the field in games, teams need to more seriously evaluate the risks. Scouting and production are best when they work together. Allen has high bust potential because he was not productive this year, and teams should be very careful in justifying why it went wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, xRUSHx said: I agree Josh Allen has the physical tools (6-foot-5, 230 pounds) that make scouts drool. But when someone looks good getting off the bus but not as good on the field in games, teams need to more seriously evaluate the risks. Scouting and production are best when they work together. Allen has high bust potential because he was not productive this year, and teams should be very careful in justifying why it went wrong. Guys with his production don't work out in the NFL. You don't go from being an average college QB to a successful NFL franchise QB. Over the past 15 years, it just doesn't happen. Edited January 10, 2018 by jrober38 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, jrober38 said: I'm sorry, but relatively speaking none of these guys had a quality supporting cast. Not a single QB on the list I just mentioned played with a future NFL calibre receiver. And if he played at a football factory, in a power conference, he'd have played against better competition. His better receivers, would have been covered by better corners. His better line, would have had to block better pass rushers. The supporting cast argument never holds up. As soon as you have to start making excuses for why a college QB didn't perform, you're talking about a guy who almost certainly has no future as a NFL franchise QB. His performance, relative to his competition, was not good enough. Guys with his resume just don't work out in the NFL. If you want a great shot at an NFL QB, look for the guys who dominated college football. The guys who turned mediocre programs into BCS contenders while they were there. All of the guys I listed (Luck, Newton, Mariota, Wilson, etc) elevated their program and got them into a major Bowl. The same cannot be said about Josh Allen. He was just a middle of the road QB in a really bad conference. Josh Rosen should be, based on value, the # 1 pick in this year's draft IMO. He is pretty much solely responsible for whatever little success the Bruins were able to achieve. He did not dominate college football and was unable to turn a mediocre program into a BCS contender. His lackluster supporting cast will not prevent him from being drafted high, and neither will the other Josh's. Of course maybe you don't think Rosen is a good prospect either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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