Chadwick Bay Chad Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 I said watch Oakland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: He won a SB with a team that a HOF HC couldn't. He took teams to the playoffs with QB Chris Simms/Greise, Jeff Garcia. What was Mularkey's accomplishment before he was promoted? Marrone's? Jeff Fisher got jobs. Human mannequin Caldwell got a job (and fired again). On and on the list goes. These are the guys who were RECENTLY available...and hired. Dog and pony show? That's certainly not how those who have seen it describe it. Why would you know better. I said Hue Jackson still has a job and he is awful. I said a guy like Gruden would be a better choice as HC. You wouldn't argue otherwise. 10 years is meaningless, as by all accounts, he's kept up with the game. Can you produce any informed opinion to dispute that (not your own.)? And finally, I'm not sure what you are hung up on....weather he should be hired as HC or weather, if hired, he should be offered an ownership sliver. I think reasonable discussion can be had as to weather he would be the right HC for this team or that, but your hangup on the extra incentive package of "partial ownership" makes no sense. Why would it be the "ridiculous" part of this story? Many teams have small fractional owners. As already discussed, the Dolphins have a bunch. Was it "ridiculous" for them to sell a bit of the team to Serena Williams? No of course not. If they simply paid her with that same fraction of ownership to do promotional work for the team as compensation, would that be "ridiculous"? I missed you. 13 minutes ago, Doc said: Oh, I have no problem with him coming back to coaching. It's the partial ownership offer I find ridiculous. Again his winning percentage wasn't great and he won that SB primarily because he faced his old team (the one that's ready to make him part owner, no less) in it and knew their plays and audibles, probably better than they did. And it is a dog-and-pony show. He loves everyone. He even loved Manziel. A few questions- is it wildly different to you to give him say $10m per year vs earning fractions of a percent in ownership? Or are you thinking he gets a huge chunk? Also do you think he factually loves everyone or just says that for tv? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 1 hour ago, NoSaint said: A few questions- is it wildly different to you to give him say $10m per year vs earning fractions of a percent in ownership? Or are you thinking he gets a huge chunk? Also do you think he factually loves everyone or just says that for tv? A few answers- Offering ownership to any coach reeks of desperation. Especially for a guy like Gruden. How many coaches, current or former, have that? Does Belicheat? That's my point. That it's the Raiders offering it surprises me not at all. And if he loves everyone for TV, of what value is his opinion? But hey, the Raiders might as well also give him GM duties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted January 2, 2018 Author Share Posted January 2, 2018 Cowherd's explanation makes sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 I get why they would hire him. But it's caveat emptor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 There would be a huge catch to such a deal as it would need to be approved by other owners and they may be reluctant to do so. http://www.businessinsider.com/oakland-raiders-may-offer-jon-gruden-ownership-2017-12 http://abc7news.com/sports/raiders-pursuit-of-jon-gruden-could-include-ownership-stake/2842801/ According to ESPN, if the contract offer includes ownership stake, the deal would need to be approved by the other NFL owners. https://sports.yahoo.com/report-raiders-preparing-strong-offer-030531185.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 On 12/30/2017 at 9:35 PM, 26CornerBlitz said: He would return to an organization he didn't want to leave in 2001, Then why did he leave? The Bucs would not have traded picks for a coach who did not want to leave. I agree most of the work was done by Dungy. Oh and if he gets the job I am sure the Rooney Rile will be cited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted January 2, 2018 Author Share Posted January 2, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Yes, a thorough search (including of course a Rooney Rule interview) is taking place as we speak... They are considering Gruden for sure and he's compelling, but there are a bunch of really great candidates out there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 This is going to be like Joe Gibbs’ return to the game. It won’t be awful, but I don’t expect anything special from Gruden. I think that he is overestimating Derek Carr. Carr has given Gruden the illusion that the Raiders are a Super Bowl ready team. I don’t think that Carr is half the player that Gruden thinks he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 14 minutes ago, DriveFor1Outta5 said: This is going to be like Joe Gibbs’ return to the game. It won’t be awful, but I don’t expect anything special from Gruden. I think that he is overestimating Derek Carr. Carr has given Gruden the illusion that the Raiders are a Super Bowl ready team. I don’t think that Carr is half the player that Gruden thinks he is. The Raiders aren't anywhere close to the Bucs were when Chuckie took them over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted January 3, 2018 Author Share Posted January 3, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted January 3, 2018 Author Share Posted January 3, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Gotta get the obligatory Rooney Rule interview in there first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted January 3, 2018 Author Share Posted January 3, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Gruden is so overrated but he inherits a really talented team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 On 1/1/2018 at 8:28 PM, NoSaint said: I missed you. A few questions- is it wildly different to you to give him say $10m per year vs earning fractions of a percent in ownership? Or are you thinking he gets a huge chunk? Also do you think he factually loves everyone or just says that for tv? Thanks man! I strive for your level of reasonable discourse but I rarely achieve it---always appreciate your input. Good to be back. On 1/1/2018 at 9:43 PM, Doc said: A few answers- Offering ownership to any coach reeks of desperation. Especially for a guy like Gruden. How many coaches, current or former, have that? Does Belicheat? That's my point. That it's the Raiders offering it surprises me not at all. And if he loves everyone for TV, of what value is his opinion? But hey, the Raiders might as well also give him GM duties. He won a SB with a team his HOF predecessor couldn't. He didn't just show up at the SB and call out his old signals. His opinion (and football expertise, which football people seek out, yet you feel qualified to mock) is different form his "TV show", for which he is paid to entertain. So the partial ownership offer (which he has denied exists) went from ridiculous to desperate? As I and now NoSaint have pointed out to you, this is a compensation package, novel for the NFL, yes, but it is standard in every other business in this country to offer salary and equity to top executives in a competitive market. His ownership sliver would be worthless until the team was sold, except for a tiny slice of annual profit the team might earn. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 On 1/2/2018 at 1:34 PM, DriveFor1Outta5 said: This is going to be like Joe Gibbs’ return to the game. It won’t be awful, but I don’t expect anything special from Gruden. I think that he is overestimating Derek Carr. Carr has given Gruden the illusion that the Raiders are a Super Bowl ready team. I don’t think that Carr is half the player that Gruden thinks he is. Huh? Many people had that same "illusion" after last season. What are you talking about? On 1/2/2018 at 1:49 PM, Doc said: The Raiders aren't anywhere close to the Bucs were when Chuckie took them over. Yeah, Gruden had a SB winning season with "Johnson and Johnson" at QB, a FB as his best RB, Keyshawn Johnson as the only receiver over 500 yards. Great defense, no offense. Now he would be inheriting a team with far better offensive skill players (just need better coaching) and a mediocre Defense with some skill players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said: He won a SB with a team his HOF predecessor couldn't. He didn't just show up at the SB and call out his old signals. His opinion (and football expertise, which football people seek out, yet you feel qualified to mock) is different form his "TV show", for which he is paid to entertain. So the partial ownership offer (which he has denied exists) went from ridiculous to desperate? As I and now NoSaint have pointed out to you, this is a compensation package, novel for the NFL, yes, but it is standard in every other business in this country to offer salary and equity to top executives in a competitive market. His ownership sliver would be worthless until the team was sold, except for a tiny slice of annual profit the team might earn. 1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said: Yeah, Gruden had a SB winning season with "Johnson and Johnson" at QB, a FB as his best RB, Keyshawn Johnson as the only receiver over 500 yards. Great defense, no offense. Now he would be inheriting a team with far better offensive skill players (just need better coaching) and a mediocre Defense with some skill players. Yeah, he pretty much did call out his old signals. Google what John Lynch had to say just after the SB. He inherited a great defense, built by Dungy, and the offense, his forte, was 18th in points and 24th in yards. The problem for him is he'll be inheriting a defense that is nowhere near as good, and the offense really only has just 3 good players (Crabtree will be cut), and one of them, the QB, is coming off a disappointing season. And the offer was ridiculous, so they must be desperate. Or maybe they're dumb? Or it's a marketing ploy (Vegas, baby!)? I don't know. Again, no other team has ever offered a coach partial ownership, despite what you and your BFF (not that there's anything wrong with that) pointed out. You think that the Raiders are a paragon of excellence as a franchise and ahead of the curve on this one, and everyone will be following suit? Would the other owners even approve it? But hey, who cares? They're not my team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Doc said: Yeah, he pretty much did call out his old signals. Google what John Lynch had to say just after the SB. He inherited a great defense, built by Dungy, and the offense, his forte, was 18th in points and 24th in yards. The problem for him is he'll be inheriting a defense that is nowhere near as good, and the offense really only has just 3 good players (Crabtree will be cut), and one of them, the QB, is coming off a disappointing season. And the offer was ridiculous, so they must be desperate. Or maybe they're dumb? Or it's a marketing ploy (Vegas, baby!)? I don't know. Again, no other team has ever offered a coach partial ownership, despite what you and your BFF (not that there's anything wrong with that) pointed out. You think that the Raiders are a paragon of excellence as a franchise and ahead of the curve on this one, and everyone will be following suit? Would the other owners even approve it? But hey, who cares? They're not my team. why does it matter if any other team will follow suit? How would it work as a "marketing ploy"? That doesn't even make sense. With that same team Dungy was bounced from the first round of the playoffs (which he would become his MO with Manning in Indy) two years in a row. Gruden took advantage of the Raiders coaching staff in the SB, but he had to get to the SB. He did it with the offensive firepower I described. Not bad. And insinuating that two men who rationally disagree with your scattershot take must be gay is a sweet debate move. Well played. Edited January 4, 2018 by Mr. WEO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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