Alphadawg7 Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 20 hours ago, ChicagoRic said: UGH I have to agree. I said the moment it happened that WIN OR LOSE I would still hate the call. The main reason is that a tie is as bad as a loss, and with so little time on the clock, and no real way to effectively pass, it was reasonable to expect the Colts would still run a lot and eat most that clock up to try and win. They barely passed all game and were most effective running. There just wasn't enough time to confidently say you would get the ball back with any real time, especially since it was going to be so difficult to pass and make up ground quickly in those conditions. I get it ultimately worked out, but I still strongly feel it would have been better to go for it and play for the win rather than punt and hope for the best. At the end of the day, I am thrilled we won, but I still have serious complaints about this staff ability to manage a clock and critical down situations. That includes Rico and his idiotic play calls like the one with Webb on an option throw that was totally ridiculous on down and short in those conditions and a healthy McCoy and Tolbert on this team. I could name about a 1000 more terrible play calls this year, but no reason too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 Just now, oldmanfan said: See, this is where you go off the rails. No one is kissing his behind. No one is saying you can't be critical. But what I would say is when folks say they can understand the call, and those who don't reuse to accept things like the weather having an influence (not you but others) it just gets ridiculous. You would agree I suspect that there are those here that look for any excuse to rag on the coach. Even after a win, as has happened several times this year. It just gets over the top. Wasn't going off the rails at all. Read his previous comment. I was replying to him. I was never talking about you as I got no problem with what you're saying even though I disagree with you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 15 minutes ago, teef said: this exactly. at some point people just have to realize the call worked out, and that the game was won. i swear, some people on here aren't happy unless they're complaining about something. the what if game is just the worst. Again, with these people it has nothing to do with the call. It has EVERYTHING to do with a deep seated dislike for McDermott, likely because of unpopular personnel choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 1 minute ago, oldmanfan said: Depends how much snow affected your hand. Good lord..... Just now, joesixpack said: Again, with these people it has nothing to do with the call. It has EVERYTHING to do with a deep seated dislike for McDermott, likely because of unpopular personnel choices. If I was a fan of the Pats and Bill Belichick made that call I would have been pissed. Nothing to do with the hatred for the guy. I just strongly disagree with his decision to punt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 3 minutes ago, billsfan11 said: Ok. Like I said in previous examples. If I play poker and I have pocket 2's pre flop, vs. pocket aces. We go all in before the flop. But I win the hand and beat pocket aces. Does that mean I was in the right odds to win? Well if you're playing poker and you're keeping cards in your pocket, that's cheating. That gets you shot in the face where I come from. You heard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubs Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 1 minute ago, billsfan11 said: Ok. Like I said in previous examples. If I play poker and I have pocket 2's pre flop, vs. pocket aces. We go all in before the flop. But I win the hand and beat pocket aces. Does that mean I was in the right odds to win? This is quite literally a meaningless analogy. Odds in poker are pretty well known because there's a single deck of 52 cards. Odds in this situation are completely unknown. Anything that I've seen that uses odds has a totally flawed methodology because of the extreme circumstances. Even the odds that MAJBobby used showed a 2% decrease, and that's not even an appropriate model for this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 1 minute ago, billsfan11 said: If I was a fan of the Pats and Bill Belichick made that call I would have been pissed. Nothing to do with the hatred for the guy. I just strongly disagree with his decision to punt You must not know many paytoilet fans. Satan doesn't make bad calls. He's a genius, ergo beyond reproach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 Just now, Gugny said: Well if you're playing poker and you're keeping cards in your pocket, that's cheating. That gets you shot in the face where I come from. You heard? You are completely missing my point buddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 2 minutes ago, joesixpack said: Again, with these people it has nothing to do with the call. It has EVERYTHING to do with a deep seated dislike for McDermott, likely because of unpopular personnel choices. i certainly think this is a very large part of it for some, (not saying you billsfan11). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 1 minute ago, billsfan11 said: You are completely missing my point buddy I can assure you, buddy, I've not missed a damn thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 1 minute ago, dubs said: This is quite literally a meaningless analogy. Odds in poker are pretty well known because there's a single deck of 52 cards. Odds in this situation are completely unknown. Anything that I've seen that uses odds has a totally flawed methodology because of the extreme circumstances. Even the odds that MAJBobby used showed a 2% decrease, and that's not even an appropriate model for this situation. Once again you are missing the point. Just because I win that hand does not mean it was the correct decision. And just because the Bills won the game cause the punt, doesn't mean it was the right decision. Odds are pocket aces are going to beat pocket twos. Odds are by punting there, the game ends in a tie or a loss. Things happen of course Just now, Gugny said: I can assure you, buddy, I've not missed a damn thing. Apparently so. Read my message above Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubs Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 Just now, billsfan11 said: Once again you are missing the point. Just because I win that hand does not mean it was the correct decision. And just because the Bills won the game cause the punt, doesn't mean it was the right decision. Odds are pocket aces are going to beat pocket twos. Odds are by punting there, the game ends in a tie or a loss. Things happen of course I am sorry to say, but you are missing the point. The premise of your point is that going for it is the equivalent of having pocket aces and punting is pocket 2s. I am saying that's unknowable. You can calculate the odds in poker, you cannot in a game with 6 inches of snow on the ground, a strong wind in one direction, a terrible offensive team on both sides of the ball, etc.... unless you can and then I am all ears because I would love to learn about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 3 minutes ago, billsfan11 said: Once again you are missing the point. Just because I win that hand does not mean it was the correct decision. And just because the Bills won the game cause the punt, doesn't mean it was the right decision. Odds are pocket aces are going to beat pocket twos. Odds are by punting there, the game ends in a tie or a loss. Things happen of course Apparently so. Read my message above Dude. I'm not Vince Young. I get it. This horse has been beaten to death, reincarnated, then beaten to death again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 If gaining one yard on fourth and one is at least a 50% percentage, it's almost impossible to imagine a scenario that punting increasing your probability of winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 4 minutes ago, Gugny said: Dude. I'm not Vince Young. I get it. This horse has been beaten to death, reincarnated, then beaten to death again. By your original message it didn't seem like you got it, which is why I was trying to explain to you what I meant. Never once did I call or imply that you're dumb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 Just now, billsfan11 said: By your original message it didn't seem like you got it, which is why I was trying to explain to you what I meant. Never once did I call or imply that you're dumb Are you saying Vince Young is dumb? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 1 minute ago, Gugny said: Are you saying Vince Young is dumb? Hahaha. Tushay 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benderbender Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 4 minutes ago, billsfan11 said: Hahaha. Tushay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 1 minute ago, benderbender said: Touche** haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 28 minutes ago, billsfan11 said: Wasn't going off the rails at all. Read his previous comment. I was replying to him. I was never talking about you as I got no problem with what you're saying even though I disagree with you Cool. Glad we can have a good back and forth even though our opinions differ. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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