Whatever happened to Doug Whaley and His Crew?

[BuffaloRush]

I was just wondering today - whatever happened to Doug Whaley and his "world class" scouts, almost all of which were fired when Brandon Beane was hired?  I remember listening to John Murphy Show around draft time and these guys were always on the air.  People like Jim Monos and Kelvin Fisher used to come on and talk about the new draft prospects etc.  Whaley would come on and talk about how great his staff was.

 

I know that these guys got fired in April, but it's so weird because I can't find anything on them.  It doesn't appear that any of these guys were picked up by other NFL teams on the scouting crew.  

 

Whatever happened to these guys?

[BadLandsMeanie]

There is a dark side to "The Process".

[C.Biscuit97]

Counting Terry's money on a beach.  But I believe he's working on some football related product outside of the NFL.

 

Whaley had his flaws but a lot of his players are key members on some really good teams.  He should have been allowed to pick his coach.

[BuffaloRush]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Counting Terry's money on a beach.  But I believe he's working on some football related product outside of the NFL.

 

Whaley had his flaws but a lot of his players are key members on some really good teams.  He should have been allowed to pick his coach.

Sure that's a fair statement about Whaley as a talent evaluator and you can probably say the same for the scouting team.  I think though, you can't say the same as his ability as GM.  He was a very bad GM and never found much success.  He had no idea how to build a team long term and instead resorted going "all in" for short term success which left the Bills with very very bad cap situation thanks to lopsided contracts.  As good as a talent evaluator as he was, Doug also made some terrible draft choices starting with EJ, doubling down on EJ with Sammy Watkins, and then taking a chance on injured planners like The Great Cyrus Koundjio, Manny "The Invisible Pass Rusher" Lawson and "Superstar" Reggie Ragland.     

[Thurman#1]

42 minutes ago, BuffaloRush said:

I was just wondering today - whatever happened to Doug Whaley and his "world class" scouts, almost all of which were fired when Brandon Beane was hired?  I remember listening to John Murphy Show around draft time and these guys were always on the air.  People like Jim Monos and Kelvin Fisher used to come on and talk about the new draft prospects etc.  Whaley would come on and talk about how great his staff was.

 

I know that these guys got fired in April, but it's so weird because I can't find anything on them.  It doesn't appear that any of these guys were picked up by other NFL teams on the scouting crew.  

 

Whatever happened to these guys?

 

 

The problem with cutting staff at that time of the year is that not many are hiring. Almost all of the scouting staffs were already filled. Probably at the end of this season some of these guys will be employed.

37 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Counting Terry's money on a beach.  But I believe he's working on some football related product outside of the NFL.

 

Whaley had his flaws but a lot of his players are key members on some really good teams.  He should have been allowed to pick his coach.

 

 

"A lot?" "Key members?" I think that's overstating it. Plenty of guys are still on teams, including the Bills, but are there, say, eight "key guys"?

[Happy]

30 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Whaley had his flaws but a lot of his players are key members on some really good teams.  He should have been allowed to pick his coach.

 

Never got all the hate for Whaley from a lot of people on his board.  Agree, he had his flaws, but he also had his successes.  Whaley's biggest mistake, IMO, was the QB position; he was basically backed into a corner by Buddy Nix and had to take EJ Manuel who was the best QB in a weak 2013 class.  It was unfortunate that draft was terrible for QBs; next best QB was Geno Smith, so that should say something.  Wish Whaley didn't stick with EJ for as long as he did; it very well may have been his undoing.

 

Not getting to select his own coach also hurt Whaley.  I suspect had he been able to select his own coach instead of Wrex being forced on him, we probably would have seen the Bills in a playoff game by now.  It seemed that he never had the full authority of a GM, and IMO, got a raw deal from this organization in the end.

 

This thread will probably go 10+ pages with strong opinions on both sides of the spectrum.  Any Whaley (or Tyrod) thread is guaranteed to do just that.

Edited November 15, 2017 by Happy Gilmore

[C.Biscuit97]

20 minutes ago, BuffaloRush said:

Sure that's a fair statement about Whaley as a talent evaluator and you can probably say the same for the scouting team.  I think though, you can't say the same as his ability as GM.  He was a very bad GM and never found much success.  He had no idea how to build a team long term and instead resorted going "all in" for short term success which left the Bills with very very bad cap situation thanks to lopsided contracts.  As good as a talent evaluator as he was, Doug also made some terrible draft choices starting with EJ, doubling down on EJ with Sammy Watkins, and then taking a chance on injured planners like The Great Cyrus Koundjio, Manny "The Invisible Pass Rusher" Lawson and "Superstar" Reggie Ragland.     

He was not a bad GM.  First of all, can you fairly evaluate a GM who doesn't hire the coach?  He tried to work with 2 coaches he didn't hire.  Shaq Lawson has Rex's name all over him.  Also, under Whaley's watch, we had a top 10 offense and defense.  The 2014 team was possibly the best team of the drought.  And then the Pegulas hired Rex.  

 

 

2 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

The problem with cutting staff at that time of the year is that not many are hiring. Almost all of the scouting staffs were already filled. Probably at the end of this season some of these guys will be employed.

 

 

"A lot?" "Key members?" I think that's overstating it. Plenty of guys are still on teams, including the Bills, but are there, say, eight "key guys"?

Woods, Watkins, Goodwin (bad team), Robey, Dareus, Gilmore, Darby is about to be.  Those are solid players on really good teams.  Not to mention he acquired our 1 remaining  blue chipper in McCoy.  

[BringBackOrton]

Exiled to suck island.

[C.Biscuit97]

3 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

Never got all the hate for Whaley from a lot of people on his board.  Agree, he had his flaws, but he also had his successes.  Whaley's biggest mistake, IMO, was the QB position; he was basically backed into a corner by Buddy Nix and had to take EJ Manuel who was the best QB in a weak 2013 class.  It was unfortunate that draft was terrible for QBs; next best QB was Geno Smith, so that should say something.  Wish Whaley didn't stick with EJ for as long as he did; it very well may have been his undoing.

 

Not getting to select his own coach also hurt Whaley.  I suspect had he been able to select his own coach instead of Wrex being forced on him, we probably would have seen the Bills in a playoff game by now.  It seemed that he never had the full authority of a GM, and IMO, got a raw deal from this organization in the end.

 

This thread will probably go 10+ pages with strong opinions on both sides of the spectrum.  Any Whaley (or Tyrod) thread is guaranteed to do just that.

Good post.  In regards to EJ, he believed in him and believed his development sucked under Marrone (it did).  Obviously, EJ isn't a NFL starter.  But in his appearances with Oakland, he certainly looks to have a long career as backup.

 

Whaley's final legacy should have been to drafted DeShaun Watson.

Just now, Dablitzkrieg said:

They were fired

By owners, who I love and respect for everything they mean to Buffalo, who have no idea how to run a sports organization.

[Freddie's Dead]

Whaley was a witch at pro personnel, but he absolutely sucked at drafting.  He'll be back next year somewhere as director of pro personnel.

[The Frankish Reich]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Good post.  In regards to EJ, he believed in him and believed his development sucked under Marrone (it did).  Obviously, EJ isn't a NFL starter.  But in his appearances with Oakland, he certainly looks to have a long career as backup.

 

Whaley's final legacy should have been to drafted DeShaun Watson.

Listening to Mike and Mike this morning.  Mark Schlereth on (kind of annoying as usual) and he says the following:  we have a new class of potentially great young QBs who've entered the NFL in the last couple seasons:  Wentz, Prescott, Goff, Watson.  I agree.  All of those guys have shown a lot in a short time.  Nice to see that we passed on drafting a QB in these last 2 "weak" classes.

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, The Frankish Reich said:

Listening to Mike and Mike this morning.  Mark Schlereth on (kind of annoying as usual) and he says the following:  we have a new class of potentially great young QBs who've entered the NFL in the last couple seasons:  Wentz, Prescott, Goff, Watson.  I agree.  All of those guys have shown a lot in a short time.  Nice to see that we passed on drafting a QB in these last 2 "weak" classes.

And this year was supposed to be the greatest QB ever and now everyone sucks.   No one knows anything about scouting QBs.

 

Goff was one of the biggest busts ever and had a worse rookie year than EJ.  Now, he is a MVP candidate.  QB development matters.

[The Frankish Reich]

Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:

And this year was supposed to be the greatest QB ever and now everyone sucks.   No one knows anything about scouting QBs.

 

Goff was one of the biggest busts ever and had a worse rookie year than EJ.  Now, he is a MVP candidate.  QB development matters.

You gotta draft em to have a chance to develop em.  Oh, I forgot: Cardale Jones.

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, The Frankish Reich said:

You gotta draft em to have a chance to develop em.  Oh, I forgot: Cardale Jones.

Agree with this 100%.  I'm already getting mad because we will pass on a qb this year because we have Nate Peterman.

[Happy]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I'm already getting mad because we will pass on a qb this year because we have Nate Peterman.

 

Well maybe, maybe not.  Hard to say what the coaching staff thinks of Peterman.  They haven't said much other than 'we like some of the things he did' during garbage time of the Saints debacle.

[C.Biscuit97]

11 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

Well maybe, maybe not.  Hard to say what the coaching staff thinks of Peterman.  They haven't said much other than 'we like some of the things he did' during garbage time of the Saints debacle.

And I’m not discounting NP. Hopefully, he turns into something. But we have far too many draft picks to not pick a qb high. 

 

Woild anyone be upset if we had 2 good young qbs?

[Victory Formation]

54 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

Never got all the hate for Whaley from a lot of people on his board.  Agree, he had his flaws, but he also had his successes.  Whaley's biggest mistake, IMO, was the QB position; he was basically backed into a corner by Buddy Nix and had to take EJ Manuel who was the best QB in a weak 2013 class.  It was unfortunate that draft was terrible for QBs; next best QB was Geno Smith, so that should say something.  Wish Whaley didn't stick with EJ for as long as he did; it very well may have been his undoing.

 

Not getting to select his own coach also hurt Whaley.  I suspect had he been able to select his own coach instead of Wrex being forced on him, we probably would have seen the Bills in a playoff game by now.  It seemed that he never had the full authority of a GM, and IMO, got a raw deal from this organization in the end.

 

This thread will probably go 10+ pages with strong opinions on both sides of the spectrum.  Any Whaley (or Tyrod) thread is guaranteed to do just that.

This is lunacy. If Doug Whaley were here, we'd be in the playoffs by now? Come on. The guy couldn't pick a QB to save his life, we would still be without a QB. How about taking MD99 over AJ Green and JJ Watt? Not a very good GM, we fired him out of mercy, he was stuttering towards the end and couldn't even piece together a sentence without freezing.

Edited November 15, 2017 by NewDayBills

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, NewDayBills said:

This is lunacy. If Doug Whaley were here, we'd be in the playoffs by now? Come on. The guy couldn't pick a QB to save his life, we would still be without a QB. How about taking MD99 over AJ Green and JJ Watt? Not a very good GM, we fired him out of mercy, he was stuttering towards the end and couldn't even piece together a sentence without freezing.

 

Dareus was Buddy Nix and I am pretty sure it was before Doug was even promoted to Assistant GM.  This is not an EJ situation where there is doubt..... Dareus was 100%, all in, a Buddy Nix selection.  Whaley extended him, and plenty of people don't like that extension, but he did not pick him.

 

As for what happens next..... Jim Monos was considered by some knowledgeable people around the league a potential GM candidate not that long ago.  The FO disconnect with Rex in the final year will not have helped his candidacy but I am 100% certain he will be back in the league in a scouting, thought not GM, role in the more traditional hiring season after the 2017 campaign concludes.  Not so sure about Kelvin Fisher who I think was stepping back from the day to day in his last year with the Bills, don't know if there was a family / personal reason involved but I wouldn't be surprised if he is done.  Rob Hanrahan (who was not a 'Whaley guy' but a guy who worked his way up through the Bills scouting setup over 15 or so years) was responsible for working with Whaley to uncover s many of the effective street FA signings in the Whaley era and has a good reputation as well.  He is another who will be back in the league.  

 

Whaley himself?  There will be jobs in the NFL for him if he wants them.  The moment his Bills tenure was doomed was the moment he didn't stand up and say "If you hire Rex I am resigning" back in 2015.  The stupid Rex inspired spending spree that followed was not good for the long term health of this team.  Doug is a smart guy and there will be opportunities for him in the corporate world if he wishes to go that route, but if he wants an NFL job he will get one.  It won't, however, be as a General Manager.  Some sort of Pro-Personnel or Assistant GM type role appears the better bet.  His only route back to a GM job will be the same route he went the first time.... attach yourself to a vet GM and then make yourself the "in house" candidate when that person decided to step down.  There is a growing trend in the NFL though for failed former GMs in kind of quasi Assistant GM roles - whether it is Scott Pioli in Atlanta, or Jeff Ireland in New Orleans, or John Idzik in Jacksonville, or Tom Heckert in Denver, or Ryan Grigson in Cleveland.  That seems to be a relatively new trend in the league.  You bring them in you give them an Assistant GM or advisor title you don't send them out on the road so much but they act as an internal consultant to the GM.  I can see Whaley in a similar role to that.  

[Fixxxer]

6 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Counting Terry's money on a beach.  But I believe he's working on some football related product outside of the NFL.

 

Whaley had his flaws but a lot of his players are key members on some really good teams.  He should have been allowed to pick his coach.

 

I agree, though his leading candidate was Hue Jackson, who doesn't look like he has HC material. 

[JM57]

6 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

The problem with cutting staff at that time of the year is that not many are hiring. Almost all of the scouting staffs were already filled. Probably at the end of this season some of these guys will be employed.

 

 

"A lot?" "Key members?" I think that's overstating it. Plenty of guys are still on teams, including the Bills, but are there, say, eight "key guys"?

Woods, Watkins and Robey-Coleman are starters for the 7-2 Rams. There's 3. Darby and Bradham start for the 8-1 Eagles. That's 5 that I would call key guys, as starters on good teams.

 

If we want to split hairs, Ron Brooks started in Darby's place until he also got injured (as is tradition) so you could argue he was a key for the Eagles until that point. Goodwin has been a starter for the Niners all year, and Kevon Seymour is basically a starter in Carolina (playing essentially the same time as Leonard Johnson does here).