ultimatebeing17 Posted September 22, 2017 Author Share Posted September 22, 2017 Since 2011 with the changes to the rookie wage scale 9 QBs have been selected. 4 of those 9 were acquired via trade-ups. Cam Newton: 0.563 Win % - 3/6 Playoff Appearances Andrew Luck: 0.614 Win % - 3/5 Playoff Appearances Robert Griffin III: 0.375 Win % - 1/5 Playoff Appearances Blake Bortles: 0.255 Win % - 0/3 Playoff Appearances Jameis Winston: 0.485 Win % - 0/2 Playoff Appearances Marcus Mariota: 0.414 Win % - 0/2 Playoff Appearances Jared Goff: 0.200 Win % - 0/1 Playoff Appearances Carson Wentz: 0.444 Win % - 0/1 Playoff Appearances Mitch Trubisky: 0 Games Played Teams picking in the top 3 aren't a QB away. There's a lot more to it than that. Well looking at the 18 QB class we will have to have a top 5 pick to get our franchise qb. We probably will not be that bad to get there but my hope is we sell the barn to move up and grab him. He may not work out but it will not be for the lack of trying. I agree with a previous poster it also seems like our front office is not putting in the work for us to become successfully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Well looking at the 18 QB class we will have to have a top 5 pick to get our franchise qb. We probably will not be that bad to get there but my hope is we sell the barn to move up and grab him. He may not work out but it will not be for the lack of trying. I agree with a previous poster it also seems like our front office is not putting in the work for us to become successfully. Looking at the 2018 QB class it can easily be argued that there will be value throughout the 1st round, not just in the 1st 5 picks. As far as not putting in the work for us to become successful, we have 6 picks in the 1st 3 rounds of next years draft, which is all the ammo we should need to secure the QB of our preference in a QB rich draft class. Lots of people have claimed they want us to bottom out and tank, and now that we've lost 1 game (by 6 points, we covered the spread) they're upset that we're losing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 I fear we should have Jetsed out on the rebuild. Our D is playing too well and TT while limited is too careful with the ball. Need a top 3 pick to have options in the draft. It's critical. Yep. I have no idea if the salary cap would allow it, and there's still time in the season, but they should have traded Shady / Tyrod / Matthews / Richie / Wood / Dareus / Kyle Williams / Hughes if they could get any sort of decent draft pick. They had no business signing guys like Holmes, Duccasse, Hauska (yeah, all you "blah blah comp picks" idiots, picks in the 3rd and 4th round matter and aren't worth the difference going down a tier from those players). Everything about the organization should be about finding cheap young players who can play, giving guys an opportunity, and accumulating as many draft picks as possible. Instead they have one foot into rebuilding and one foot making sure they won't be tied to 2-14 type seasons, and ultimately it comes down to Pegula giving the green light, if not encouraging being that bad, but he won't do it. Few if any owners have the stomach to willingly sign up for 1-15 / 2-14 type seasons, the Browns are the closest to it and people are crazy if they don't think Hue and Sashi aren't going to be on VERY thin ice if they turn in another 1-15 season and come out of it without a true answer at QB. We don't have the stomach for it as an organization, instead we are going to be back to the Jauron 6-10 / 7-9 boring old Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 The problem is we don't build around the QB, we tend to do the opposite. Which has been proven to be an ineffective way to build an NFL team. The only way to get a solid 1st rd Qb is to tank, cause else we will get somebody who is either a 'work in progress' or another e.j manuel. 100% agree the only team to truly "tank" for their qb would be the colts for luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ultimatebeing17 Posted September 22, 2017 Author Share Posted September 22, 2017 Looking at the 2018 QB class it can easily be argued that there will be value throughout the 1st round, not just in the 1st 5 picks. As far as not putting in the work for us to become successful, we have 6 picks in the 1st 3 rounds of next years draft, which is all the ammo we should need to secure the QB of our preference in a QB rich draft class. Lots of people have claimed they want us to bottom out and tank, and now that we've lost 1 game (by 6 points, we covered the spread) they're upset that we're losing. Right now we look like a team with a bottom 5 offense and top 10 defense so that is why we covered the spread haha. Not cause it was some intense, great football team. The football gods might help us out since we will probably lose to the Broncos and get p*ssy pounded by the Falcons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Right now we look like a team with a bottom 5 offense and top 10 defense so that is why we covered the spread haha. Not cause it was some intense, great football team. The football gods might help us out since we will probably lose to the Broncos and get p*ssy pounded by the Falcons. Isn't that what you want though? Or do you want us to tank by not losing? Personally, I don't ever want the Bills to lose. I also happen to believe we have enough draft ammo to get the QB our staff identifies as the best, regardless of how many games we win this year. You also cited Drew Brees in your original post. Did you know he was a 2nd round pick? Did you also know that the pick used to acquire him was gained via the Chargers trading down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Since 2011 with the changes to the rookie wage scale 9 QBs have been selected. 4 of those 9 were acquired via trade-ups. Cam Newton: 0.563 Win % - 3/6 Playoff Appearances Andrew Luck: 0.614 Win % - 3/5 Playoff Appearances Robert Griffin III: 0.375 Win % - 1/5 Playoff Appearances Blake Bortles: 0.255 Win % - 0/3 Playoff Appearances Jameis Winston: 0.485 Win % - 0/2 Playoff Appearances Marcus Mariota: 0.414 Win % - 0/2 Playoff Appearances Jared Goff: 0.200 Win % - 0/1 Playoff Appearances Carson Wentz: 0.444 Win % - 0/1 Playoff Appearances Mitch Trubisky: 0 Games Played Teams picking in the top 3 aren't a QB away. There's a lot more to it than that. The Cowboys and Raiders were picking in the top 5 when they got Dak & Carr... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 we've had 1st round QBs, problem is they were not good We've had bad 1st round QB's because they were bad and everyone knew it. EJ Manuel had a round 3 grade on him. JP Losman was the 4th QB taken and was not expected to be anything either. How about we take the top QB where all of the experts agree this is a good QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 The Cowboys and Raiders were picking in the top 5 when they got Dak & Carr... Where are you going with that? Also, the point was top 3, not top 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 I was too young to remember the last time the Bills were in the playoffs. It has been 17 years and frankly I'm fcking sick of it. When is enough enough! The defense I saw against Carolina was amazing. Can't we all just agree we are a QB away from the playoffs? We probably need a few better WR's and such, but we have been neglecting the most important position in all of football for over 17 years, it is crazy!!! Doug Whaley, Dick Jauron, Rex Ryan, and countless other trash coaches/GM's have done nothing but prolong this embarrassment. If we had a 1st Rd Qb I can tell you we would be in the playoffs within 2 years and competing for the Lombardi trophy in five. What fcking idiot takes a WR or even a CB in the 1st rd when we dont even have an established QB. Sure, you can make the argument that having a great QB doesn't guarantee you playoffs as example by the Saints and Colts. But Drew Brees has a ring and Luck has brought them to two AFC Championships. Even if you discard that you can see that Sean Mcderrmott is not going to let the defense be soft as evident by his time in Carolina and his coaching here so far. I am sick of watching a s*it product on the field every Sunday, we need to let the Bills front office know we are not going to take this garbage team's product anymore. I one day want to see the 90's four superbowl losses become a distant memory, when we can hold the Lombardi trophy high over the streets of Buffalo. You mean like the 3 who played last night and accounted for almost 300 yards receiving and 2 TDs? Like those kinds of WRs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasons1992 Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 But Drew Brees has a ring and Luck has brought them to two AFC Championships. Did I miss the other Luck AFC championship? They went playoffs, 2nd round, championship (Deflategate*, don't forget the asterisk, newbee) and have sucked since then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Since 2011 with the changes to the rookie wage scale 9 QBs have been selected. 4 of those 9 were acquired via trade-ups. Cam Newton: 0.563 Win % - 3/6 Playoff Appearances Andrew Luck: 0.614 Win % - 3/5 Playoff Appearances Robert Griffin III: 0.375 Win % - 1/5 Playoff Appearances Blake Bortles: 0.255 Win % - 0/3 Playoff Appearances Jameis Winston: 0.485 Win % - 0/2 Playoff Appearances Marcus Mariota: 0.414 Win % - 0/2 Playoff Appearances Jared Goff: 0.200 Win % - 0/1 Playoff Appearances Carson Wentz: 0.444 Win % - 0/1 Playoff Appearances Mitch Trubisky: 0 Games Played Teams picking in the top 3 aren't a QB away. There's a lot more to it than that. at least leave the illusion that a top QB will be an improvement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Where are you going with that? Also, the point was top 3, not top 5. Huge distinction between 3rd and 5th... The implication in your post seems to be teams drafting in the top 3 who take a QB stay bad, those two guys were drafted onto "bad" teams. Really I don't know what you are trying to say, but RG3's career was ruined by injury, Bortles was a reach and everyone knew it, Goff the jury is still out on but he's turning it around, but Cam / Luck / Winston / Mariota / Wentz all very much look the part and are better than anything we've had on the field since #12 walked off it for the last time, regardless of what their win % or playoff appearances currently state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasons1992 Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 since #12 walked off it for the last time It certainly would have been great had he walked off. The memory of him being carted off with a concussion and then Todd Collins throwing it into the ground on the final drive will never leave my memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Huge distinction between 3rd and 5th... The implication in your post seems to be teams drafting in the top 3 who take a QB stay bad, those two guys were drafted onto "bad" teams. Really I don't know what you are trying to say, but RG3's career was ruined by injury, Bortles was a reach and everyone knew it, Goff the jury is still out on but he's turning it around, but Cam / Luck / Winston / Mariota / Wentz all very much look the part and are better than anything we've had on the field since #12 walked off it for the last time, regardless of what their win % or playoff appearances currently state. First, if you look at the success rate of QB's drafted the line is very clearly drawn at the top 3 picks. Second, Dallas wouldn't have been the same team if they took Dak and didn't have Zeke and Oakland surely wouldn't be the same team if they took Carr and didn't have Mack. What I'm trying to say is that the OP's whiney statement if full of discrepancies and erroneous thoughts. Especially when it comes to the idea of tanking being a tactic that has proven to be successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 (edited) The Cowboys and Raiders were picking in the top 5 when they got Dak & Carr... And they didn't get them in the first round either. Again another reason why we don't need a billion draft assets to pull in a franchise QB. Hmmm...let me look around the NFL: The 3 absolute undeniable top 3 QBs in the NFL are (in no particular order) Brady - 6th round pick. Brees - 2nd round pick. Rogers - Late first round pick. Then there are guys like: Big Ben - mid round first Wilson - 3rd rounder Dak - 3rd rounder Cousins - 4th rounder Yes there are guys playing at a high level that came from the top of the draft like Mariota, Ryan, Winston, etc. But the point is that is NOT imperative to pick in the top 5 to get a franchise QB. And this next draft year is going to be as deep as we have seen in a long time at QB and highly possible we don't even need to make a trade to get our guy and we may not even use one of our first round picks on one to be honest. Although I do expect us to probably draft a QB in the first, I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't with how deep it could be if all the expected guys declare for the draft. They may use the 2 first rounders on other positions and go after a QB in the 2nd. Again, I do personally feel we will get a QB in the first, just saying thats not outside the realm of possibility. SD passed on a QB to take LT instead and got Bress in the 2nd. Raiders passed on a QB to take Mack and got Carr in the 2nd. Tons of examples of this happening. Edited September 22, 2017 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simool Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 I was too young to remember the last time the Bills were in the playoffs. It has been 17 years and frankly I'm fcking sick of it. When is enough enough! The defense I saw against Carolina was amazing. Can't we all just agree we are a QB away from the playoffs? We probably need a few better WR's and such, but we have been neglecting the most important position in all of football for over 17 years, it is crazy!!! Doug Whaley, Dick Jauron, Rex Ryan, and countless other trash coaches/GM's have done nothing but prolong this embarrassment. If we had a 1st Rd Qb I can tell you we would be in the playoffs within 2 years and competing for the Lombardi trophy in five. What fcking idiot takes a WR or even a CB in the 1st rd when we dont even have an established QB. Sure, you can make the argument that having a great QB doesn't guarantee you playoffs as example by the Saints and Colts. But Drew Brees has a ring and Luck has brought them to two AFC Championships. Even if you discard that you can see that Sean Mcderrmott is not going to let the defense be soft as evident by his time in Carolina and his coaching here so far. I am sick of watching a s*it product on the field every Sunday, we need to let the Bills front office know we are not going to take this garbage team's product anymore. I one day want to see the 90's four superbowl losses become a distant memory, when we can hold the Lombardi trophy high over the streets of Buffalo. Mr. Hokie, what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent post were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul. Welcome to the Buffalo Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Yep. I have no idea if the salary cap would allow it, and there's still time in the season, but they should have traded Shady / Tyrod / Matthews / Richie / Wood / Dareus / Kyle Williams / Hughes if they could get any sort of decent draft pick. They had no business signing guys like Holmes, Duccasse, Hauska (yeah, all you "blah blah comp picks" idiots, picks in the 3rd and 4th round matter and aren't worth the difference going down a tier from those players). Everything about the organization should be about finding cheap young players who can play, giving guys an opportunity, and accumulating as many draft picks as possible. Instead they have one foot into rebuilding and one foot making sure they won't be tied to 2-14 type seasons, and ultimately it comes down to Pegula giving the green light, if not encouraging being that bad, but he won't do it. Few if any owners have the stomach to willingly sign up for 1-15 / 2-14 type seasons, the Browns are the closest to it and people are crazy if they don't think Hue and Sashi aren't going to be on VERY thin ice if they turn in another 1-15 season and come out of it without a true answer at QB. We don't have the stomach for it as an organization, instead we are going to be back to the Jauron 6-10 / 7-9 boring old We found plenty of cheap young players who can play - lawson, poyer, white. We're giving guys opportunities - humber, gaines, jones. We're accumulating picks - trading watkins, darby, ragland. You don't always build a winning culture by going 1-15. They've added a bunch of picks, and are trying to both have ammo to move around the draft, but also inject a bunch of young talent into the team in a single year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 I'm gonna come back and visit this post on Sunday night when we're 2-1 "I want an Oompa Loompa NOW!!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ultimatebeing17 Posted September 22, 2017 Author Share Posted September 22, 2017 Donald Trump may have been right when he said Terry Pegula is a loser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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