Sean Jauron has a nice ring to it.......

[SoTier]

I believe I mocked a Jauron comparison thread this past offseason. For that, I am sorry.

 

I can admit that it's looking eerily similar to Jauron-ball thus far.

 

As one of the posters who recognized the similarities to Jauron early on when most other posters were gushing over McDermott, I thank you for admitting that.

 

see no comparison, at all.

 

Keep telling yourself that.

 

This defense is infinitely better than any Jauron defense this team had

 

That's only because McDermott knows you need LBs that are at least the same size as the RBs and WRs they're supposed to tackle. Jauron liked smurfs on the defense and behemoths on the OL. His philosophy -- playing not to lose -- is the same as Jauron's but the details are somewhat different.

 

No way Jauron goes for a 4th and 1 from the 44...that's a punt all day.

 

As someone mentioned, Jauron in his first season, wasn't as bad as he became.

 

This thread is ridiculous.

 

We all knew this was going to be a painful offensive season and this team will threaten the team record of least points in a 16-game season.

 

To say McDermott is Jauron after two games experience as a HC is downright laughable.

 

Most of us don't want to go through this or admit it, but it takes time to implement an offensive system and when you don't have a QB, it take even longer.

 

Not having a QB severely hampers whatever you can do.

 

Whatever "offensive system" the Bills purport to have, it doesn't appear to be NFL caliber because it sucks against NFL caliber talent. What kind of "offensive system" doesn't have a downfield component to it BTW?

 

McDermott has a QB. His QB doesn't have protection because the OC changed the blocking scheme to one that doesn't appear to fit the OLers he has very well, and he doesn't have targets because the Bills FO sent all his WRs packing in the off season. When a team can't/won't throw downfield, they soon can't run the ball either because their opponents put 8 in the box, pretty effectively stopping even the best RBs. Those 8 defenders up close to the LOS then also disrupt the short/medium passing games as well. That's what we saw yesterday.

 

Teams need to do both, and when they can't, they'll get their butts handed to them most times. It's not rocket science, but it's apparently news to McDermott ... and to Jauron before him.

 

I bet you won't you think comparisons to Jauron are quite so ridiculous after watching the Bills offensive offense for a few more games.

[Albwan]

What is he going to do, he has to game plan around not having a passing game.

[Bray Wyatt]

 

As one of the posters who recognized the similarities to Jauron early on when most other posters were gushing over McDermott, I thank you for admitting that.

 

 

Keep telling yourself that.

 

 

That's only because McDermott knows you need LBs that are at least the same size as the RBs and WRs they're supposed to tackle. Jauron liked smurfs on the defense and behemoths on the OL. His philosophy -- playing not to lose -- is the same as Jauron's but the details are somewhat different.

 

 

As someone mentioned, Jauron in his first season, wasn't as bad as he became.

 

 

Whatever "offensive system" the Bills purport to have, it doesn't appear to be NFL caliber because it sucks against NFL caliber talent. What kind of "offensive system" doesn't have a downfield component to it BTW?

 

McDermott has a QB. His QB doesn't have protection because the OC changed the blocking scheme to one that doesn't appear to fit the OLers he has very well, and he doesn't have targets because the Bills FO sent all his WRs packing in the off season. When a team can't/won't throw downfield, they soon can't run the ball either because their opponents put 8 in the box, pretty effectively stopping even the best RBs. Those 8 defenders up close to the LOS then also disrupt the short/medium passing games as well. That's what we saw yesterday.

 

Teams need to do both, and when they can't, they'll get their butts handed to them most times. It's not rocket science, but it's apparently news to McDermott ... and to Jauron before him.

 

I bet you won't you think comparisons to Jauron are quite so ridiculous after watching the Bills offensive offense for a few more games.

 

So he either is or isn't like Jauron

 

Jauron also had a crap offense before coming to Buffalo with Chicago so with him it was a lot more worrisome, to assume McD will have the same on your part appears to be wishful thinking either that or confirmation bias. After week 1 we were #2 or something like that in yards, we go up against a top tier D on the road and that drops and everything is doom and gloom

 

If you want to believe what you do, go ahead, but don't pretend like it is founded on anything other than speculation at this point

[Captain Murica]

Here comes the mob...

[BADOLBILZ]

Year 1 Jauron performance isn't such a bad thing; it's if the team never takes the next step like the Jauron teams that would be the problem.

 

 

Yeah year 1 Jauron was well received by the fanbase.....penalties and sloppiness disappeared.........they were in a lot of close games and squeezed out capable play from JP Losman and the defense was ballhawking and the pass D in particular was one of the league's best.

 

But I think the problem is THAT team had less talent than what McDermott inherited.........he has made a few dubious decisions wrt playmakers so he gets no pass from me for creating his own offensive ineptitude.

[QB Bills]

Jauron gets a lot of hate here because of his personality, but he took some dog-turd rosters to 7 win seasons. In retrospect it hurt their draft picks, but he's not as bad as he's made out to be.

[BADOLBILZ]

Jauron gets a lot of hate here because of his personality, but he took some dog-turd rosters to 7 win seasons. In retrospect it hurt their draft picks, but he's not as bad as he's made out to be.

 

 

Actually he and Levy gutted their roster.......when they dumped Milloy, Fletcher, Clements, McGahee and Spikes....... in the name of getting "their guys"..........and used all of their early picks for several years just treading water substituting those players with first and second round picks. And in aggregate, those new players weren't even as good as the players THEY LOST. Treading water. His failure was self-inflicted.

[QB Bills]

 

 

Actually he and Levy gutted their roster.......when they dumped Milloy, Fletcher, Clements, McGahee and Spikes....... in the name of getting "their guys"..........and used all of their early picks for several years just treading water substituting those players with first and second round picks. And in aggregate, those new players weren't even as good as the players THEY LOST. Treading water. His failure was self-inflicted.

Milloy was just about done. Played a few more years on some bad defenses. Clements didn't live up to that contract in SF from what I recall. We went with the cheaper McGee and got lucky with Greer. So I can't fault them too much for that. I remember they were in love with Patrick Willis but he went right before Lynch. So Fletcher turned out to be a big loss, and even Spikes to a lesser extent.

 

Their issue was not having a QB nor a decent offensive coach on the staff. The defense was not dominant by any means, but they were good enough. The FO just couldn't and/or wouldn't assemble an offense.

[thebandit27]

 

 

Yeah year 1 Jauron was well received by the fanbase.....penalties and sloppiness disappeared.........they were in a lot of close games and squeezed out capable play from JP Losman and the defense was ballhawking and the pass D in particular was one of the league's best.

 

But I think the problem is THAT team had less talent than what McDermott inherited.........he has made a few dubious decisions wrt playmakers so he gets no pass from me for creating his own offensive ineptitude.

 

No pass indeed.

 

They took away the pieces of the offense (Watkins, Goodwin) that allowed Tyrod to do what he does well in the passing game...and that's fine if you either (a) replace those pieces or (b) have no intention of keeping Taylor for this season. Instead, they've decided to put Taylor in position to operate a timing-based passing game without the luxury of receivers that can get open with their first step (and with whom Taylor has absolutely no level of comfort).

 

There's zero threat of a deep passing game, and every opponent they play knows that. Completely of their own doing.

[BADOLBILZ]

Milloy was just about done. Played a few more years on some bad defenses. Clements didn't live up to that contract in SF from what I recall. We went with the cheaper McGee and got lucky with Greer. So I can't fault them too much for that. I remember they were in love with Patrick Willis but he went right before Lynch. So Fletcher turned out to be a big loss, and even Spikes to a lesser extent.

 

Their issue was not having a QB nor a decent offensive coach on the staff. The defense was not dominant by any means, but they were good enough. The FO just couldn't and/or wouldn't assemble an offense.

 

The issue was drafting Whitner, Lynch, Poz and McKelvin to replace them........thereby using up big draft capital on players that weren't even improvements or played positions of lesser importance(safety/RB/MLB).

 

And those guys they gave away ended up playing good football and for longer than you remember........none of them were out of the league in a year or two.

[y2zipper]

McDermott and Dennison are getting the offense ready for the guy after Taylor.

[CLTbills]

Well that took long.

 

2 games in and the "Dick Jauron" posts have already started.

 

I, for one, am pretty excited about how well our defense has played so far. That was such a HUGE frustration last year with the "defensive mastermind" Ryan brothers calling the shots.

 

You can't tell me that you expected this offense to be stellar. We have no weapons. Sure, you can blame McDermott and Beane for that, but the long term gain, I firmly believe, outweighs the short-term loss.

 

I'm a lifelong diehard Bills fan. I cheer for them every week. Hell, I was in the stands in Charlotte on Sunday. But I came into this season knowing that we weren't going to be very good on offense, but that the long-term benefit (hopefully) will be well worth the struggle.

 

Just my two cents.

[SoTier]

 

 

Yeah year 1 Jauron was well received by the fanbase.....penalties and sloppiness disappeared.........they were in a lot of close games and squeezed out capable play from JP Losman and the defense was ballhawking and the pass D in particular was one of the league's best.

 

But I think the problem is THAT team had less talent than what McDermott inherited.........he has made a few dubious decisions wrt playmakers so he gets no pass from me for creating his own offensive ineptitude.

^^^

 

 

 

Actually he and Levy gutted their roster.......when they dumped Milloy, Fletcher, Clements, McGahee and Spikes....... in the name of getting "their guys"..........and used all of their early picks for several years just treading water substituting those players with first and second round picks. And in aggregate, those new players weren't even as good as the players THEY LOST. Treading water. His failure was self-inflicted.

 

Totally agree with both posts. At least Jauron waited a season to see what he had. McDermott didn't bother.

 

Milloy was just about done. Played a few more years on some bad defenses. Clements didn't live up to that contract in SF from what I recall. We went with the cheaper McGee and got lucky with Greer. So I can't fault them too much for that. I remember they were in love with Patrick Willis but he went right before Lynch. So Fletcher turned out to be a big loss, and even Spikes to a lesser extent.

 

Their issue was not having a QB nor a decent offensive coach on the staff. The defense was not dominant by any means, but they were good enough. The FO just couldn't and/or wouldn't assemble an offense.

 

Oh, bull manure! Before Jauron and Levy started gutting talent, the Bills offense had a half-way passable OL and receiving corps. When they finished, they had no OL and no receiving corps, just bodies wearing jerseys with linemen's and receivers' numbers. Jauron's play-not-to-lose-by-too-much offense was so bad that by the end of 2008, Trent Edwards and JP Losman played like equally bad clones of each other.

 

As for the defense, he filled it with smurfs. The damned LBs weren't even as big as the RBs they were supposed to tackle so they got dragged downfield for another 5 or 10 yards. Aaron Maybin was supposed to be a tweener (hybrid DE/LB) but he was more the size of big DB or small LB: 220/230 lbs.

 

The only Bills player to make the Pro Bowl during Jauron's time in Buffalo was Brian Moorman, the punter IIRC. Jauron made the Bills into a team of great STers ... unfortunately, they were playing starting positions. That's the team that Nix and Gailey inherited in 2010.

 

 

 

No pass indeed.

 

They took away the pieces of the offense (Watkins, Goodwin) that allowed Tyrod to do what he does well in the passing game...and that's fine if you either (a) replace those pieces or (b) have no intention of keeping Taylor for this season. Instead, they've decided to put Taylor in position to operate a timing-based passing game without the luxury of receivers that can get open with their first step (and with whom Taylor has absolutely no level of comfort).

 

There's zero threat of a deep passing game, and every opponent they play knows that. Completely of their own doing.

 

Totally agree. The lack of a passing game is totally on the current Bills FO and coaching staff.

 

McDermott and Dennison are getting the offense ready for the guy after Taylor.

 

No, they're getting the team ready for a new coaching staff to pick up the pieces yet again for the 2019 or the 2020 season.

 

Well that took long.

 

2 games in and the "Dick Jauron" posts have already started.

 

I, for one, am pretty excited about how well our defense has played so far. That was such a HUGE frustration last year with the "defensive mastermind" Ryan brothers calling the shots.

 

You can't tell me that you expected this offense to be stellar. We have no weapons. Sure, you can blame McDermott and Beane for that, but the long term gain, I firmly believe, outweighs the short-term loss.

 

I'm a lifelong diehard Bills fan. I cheer for them every week. Hell, I was in the stands in Charlotte on Sunday. But I came into this season knowing that we weren't going to be very good on offense, but that the long-term benefit (hopefully) will be well worth the struggle.

 

Just my two cents.

 

Why does a change in coaching staff have to result in a disastrous season? Andy Reid turned a 2-14 Chiefs team into an 11-5 playoff team in his first season. Bruce Ariens turned the 5-11 Cardinals into 10-6 winners that just missed the playoffs in his first year. Jack Del Rio took the hapless 3-13 Raiders to 7-9 in his first season and 12-4 and the playoffs in his second.

 

Vance Joseph has the Broncos looking as good or possibly better than under Kubiak in his first season, and the Rams under McVay now look like an NFL caliber football team in his first season, especially on offense. The Bills look like a semi-pro outfit on offense.

[PolishDave]

Well that took long.

 

2 games in and the "Dick Jauron" posts have already started.

 

I, for one, am pretty excited about how well our defense has played so far. That was such a HUGE frustration last year with the "defensive mastermind" Ryan brothers calling the shots.

 

You can't tell me that you expected this offense to be stellar. We have no weapons. Sure, you can blame McDermott and Beane for that, but the long term gain, I firmly believe, outweighs the short-term loss.

 

I'm a lifelong diehard Bills fan. I cheer for them every week. Hell, I was in the stands in Charlotte on Sunday. But I came into this season knowing that we weren't going to be very good on offense, but that the long-term benefit (hopefully) will be well worth the struggle.

 

Just my two cents.

 

You weren't paying attention.

 

The Dick Jauron posts started way before now.

[GG]

 

No pass indeed.

 

They took away the pieces of the offense (Watkins, Goodwin) that allowed Tyrod to do what he does well in the passing game...and that's fine if you either (a) replace those pieces or (b) have no intention of keeping Taylor for this season. Instead, they've decided to put Taylor in position to operate a timing-based passing game without the luxury of receivers that can get open with their first step (and with whom Taylor has absolutely no level of comfort).

 

There's zero threat of a deep passing game, and every opponent they play knows that. Completely of their own doing.

 

That's a fair statement. But it begs the question of what's the cart and what's the horse? What's better for the team's long term success - adapting the offense to Tyrod's strengths, or seeing if Tyrod can work in this offense.

 

To me, the actions the team has taken since January are clear and it's up to Tyrod to adapt. Some people look at it as the front office putting Tyrod in a position to fail. I look at it from Suggs' point of view - they want to see Tyrod be a QB.

[4_kidd_4]

Or...did they hand Tyrod the keys to the Tank?

 

I said Jauron-Ball "thus far". Small sample. I'm willing to accept this season as a wash with long term improvement in mind.

[thebandit27]

 

That's a fair statement. But it begs the question of what's the cart and what's the horse? What's better for the team's long term success - adapting the offense to Tyrod's strengths, or seeing if Tyrod can work in this offense.

 

To me, the actions the team has taken since January are clear and it's up to Tyrod to adapt. Some people look at it as the front office putting Tyrod in a position to fail. I look at it from Suggs' point of view - they want to see Tyrod be a QB.

 

I think that they tried to have it both ways (be competitive this year and start putting "the system"--the one they believe will be sustainable in the long-term--in place for the future), and the results are going to be lackluster.

 

IMO, they should've gone full-throttle one way or the other. Either leave the pieces in place for Taylor to have success, or cut him (and everyone else) loose and start building from the ground up.

[GG]

 

I think that they tried to have it both ways (be competitive this year and start putting "the system"--the one they believe will be sustainable in the long-term--in place for the future), and the results are going to be lackluster.

 

IMO, they should've gone full-throttle one way or the other. Either leave the pieces in place for Taylor to have success, or cut him (and everyone else) loose and start building from the ground up.

 

I honestly don't think there was an option to keep the pieces in place -

 

Do you pay market price to keep Woods & Goodwin? I certainly wouldn't.

 

Tyrod's contract redo was a clear sign of what the team thought of him and more importantly how the rest of the league valued him. The new contract came on the heels of Hoyer signing in SF instead of Buffalo and Tyrod's feelers to the rest of the league. This is a one year prove it or lose it year for Tyrod, and if I'm the Bills, I'm not investing a lot of assets until I know my long term QB situation.

[BillsVet]

Resource wise, DJ had a lot less to work with than Coach McD does now. Does anyone think Cordy Glenn, Jerry Hughes, and Marcell Dareus receive those contract extensions with Ralph/Littman/Smithers making decisions?

 

To quote DJ, "it's hard to win in the NFL." And it's even harder now than it was 10 years ago when the Bills could go 7-9 with the low cost rosters they trotted out there. Back in 2006-09 no one was going to succeed with RW/Littman/Smithers hovering over football decisions.

 

Coach McD has resources DJ never dreamed of. I'm not showing pity for DJ, only that the change in ownership means anyone post RW/Littman/Smithers should be winning with a decent strategic team-building plan.

[JohnC]

 

The issue was drafting Whitner, Lynch, Poz and McKelvin to replace them........thereby using up big draft capital on players that weren't even improvements or played positions of lesser importance(safety/RB/MLB).

 

And those guys they gave away ended up playing good football and for longer than you remember........none of them were out of the league in a year or two.

During that period of time there was a Wilson/Littman business model that was in force. What it came down to the more expensive players were being replaced with the cheaper drafted players. As you noted the departed players were then playing and contributing for other teams. In effect, the Bills were not adding to the talent base so much as they were churning players to stay within the Littman enforced salary structure.

 

Your point about emphasizing positions with less impact is spot on. There has been for a long time little thought or good analysis of where to invest with your cap dollars. In addition, not focusing on the qb position when solidifying that position enables you to cover for other position weaknesses is an organizational irrationality that never made sense and to this day still doesn't make sense.