3rdand12 Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 ...you are correct.......... yep. in big letters i thought i read I believe that the Bills may win 6 games. The Browns may win less. Their talent is on the way up while the Bills talent is on the way down. If neither team is contending I'd rather have the roster that is on the way up not on the way down. They will have an elite OL and an elite pass rush as soon as this year. They MAY have their QB as well. The Browns have a much better foundation to build upon than the Bills do. Who cares about 2017 of neither team is winning anyways? the talent level is going down? The influx of newish players is a tough call right now. And it looks like we too will be drafting earlier and more often next draft. Lets not get cutting up apples and oranges yet. Bill relying on less splash doe not equate a lesser team perhaps. Been waning away since Mario Williams checked out. I see a fresh influx beginning SM needs to show the same courage as Jackson. Clearly TT is not the long term answer. This offence suits Peterman, the sooner we know if he has a chance to be the man the better. If he blows we just end up with a better first round pick. play to win. If TT cannot. Play Peterman. period. never play to lose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 yep. in big letters i thought i read the talent level is going down? The influx of newish players is a tough call right now. And it looks like we too will be drafting earlier and more often next draft. Lets not get cutting up apples and oranges yet. Bill relying on less splash doe not equate a lesser team perhaps. Been waning away since Mario Williams checked out. I see a fresh influx beginning play to win. If TT cannot. Play Peterman. period. never play to lose I think that the Bills best players are Incognito, Kyle, Dareus, Hughes, Shady, and Glenn. Wood, Hyde and Tyrod are good players as well. Do you see any of those guys as ascending players? Dareus and Glenn aren't old but with Glenn's foot I wouldn't say that he's on the way up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 I think that the Bills best players are Incognito, Kyle, Dareus, Hughes, Shady, and Glenn. Wood, Hyde and Tyrod are good players as well. Do you see any of those guys as ascending players? Dareus and Glenn aren't old but with Glenn's foot I wouldn't say that he's on the way up. Starting with Glenn. Bills signed him longish term under Whaley for good reason. I have not come close to hitting the "worry" button yet. But i know where to find it ! Dareus ? Has not met his ceiling yet. If he wants to play and can maintain his health better Hughes. still a ton of nitro in his tank> He stays healthy and is a game changer ( no smartaleck comments here) he is and you know it is true. Lesean same deal. He has some years left due to mileage and contract. and RBs are dime a dozen , right ? Hyde is a bridge Safety. Poyer is looking the part. Wood is nearly done and Groy is right there. Might be the better player honestly( yes i watched that preseason of him) Kyles last year. And that is just a natural progression for a team. Adolphus is next up I will seriously miss Ritchie and have no idea how much gas he has left or what Bills think under the new regime about Pro bowl{all pro guards ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 (edited) Starting with Glenn. Bills signed him longish term under Whaley for good reason. I have not come close to hitting the "worry" button yet. But i know where to find it ! Dareus ? Has not met his ceiling yet. If he wants to play and can maintain his health better Hughes. still a ton of nitro in his tank> He stays healthy and is a game changer ( no smartaleck comments here) he is and you know it is true. Lesean same deal. He has some years left due to mileage and contract. and RBs are dime a dozen , right ? Hyde is a bridge Safety. Poyer is looking the part. Wood is nearly done and Groy is right there. Might be the better player honestly( yes i watched that preseason of him) Kyles last year. And that is just a natural progression for a team. Adolphus is next up I will seriously miss Ritchie and have no idea how much gas he has left or what Bills think under the new regime about Pro bowl{all pro guards ) You are kind of making my point. How long will Hughes be better than Garrett for? He may not be better now. Outside of Joe Thomas the entire Browns roster is ascending. They aren't guys that have a couple of year left. They are heading towards their primes not on the back 9. The Bills are probably 3 years from winning. That's kind of the point. Your roster needs to be peaking at that point. Edited August 23, 2017 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 BTW I like this call by the Browns in concept. Like any Team that wishes to have honest hope, they need to draft a QB that the Coaches can and truly want to Coach. did feel Brock as always going to be trade bait and back up if they could not move him. Expensive as heck BU. but, it was a nice play/risk by Browns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Starting with Glenn. Bills signed him longish term under Whaley for good reason. I have not come close to hitting the "worry" button yet. But i know where to find it ! Dareus ? Has not met his ceiling yet. If he wants to play and can maintain his health better Hughes. still a ton of nitro in his tank> He stays healthy and is a game changer ( no smartaleck comments here) he is and you know it is true. Lesean same deal. He has some years left due to mileage and contract. and RBs are dime a dozen , right ? Hyde is a bridge Safety. Poyer is looking the part. Wood is nearly done and Groy is right there. Might be the better player honestly( yes i watched that preseason of him) Kyles last year. And that is just a natural progression for a team. Adolphus is next up I will seriously miss Ritchie and have no idea how much gas he has left or what Bills think under the new regime about Pro bowl{all pro guards ) Isn't it kind of funny how Incognito went from being perceived as a dirtbag dude out of the NFL that nobody wants to being one of the Bills' fans favorite players? He can thank Rex Ryan for that I think. Might be one of the only good things Rex did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 You are kind of probing my point. How long will Hughes be better than Garrett for? He may not be better now. Outside of Joe Thomas the entire Browns roster is ascending. They aren't guys that have a couple of year left. They are heading towards their primes not on the back 9. The Bills are probably 3 years from winning. That's kind of the point. Your roster needs to be peaking at that point. Well my Friend Kirby, i see your context now. as you know I am a conceptual person more than the details. As some of my most respected and learned folks here are my assist. I trust on some data supplied and try to compare a bit. But i just do not see what you see. What as the turnover when the new management came about at the Player Level. The MC/Beans have turned the roster over heavy looking for players and adding draft picks. while getting a decent draft in. we are only a year two behind the Browns in a refreshing new shine in Buffalo. Let me say this as an aside. I think it is turning the Ryan Culture around that is first priority. With a decent culture shift and some very adept working of the draft boards and scouting pros, i think when you hit second gear/year Bills COULD gain some traction. great movie to watch. looking forward to the pace of the race between Browns, Jets and Miami. Keep the chin up Old Boy Pip Pip and all that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 I am not as sold on the Browns roster (particularly the pass rushers behind Garrett) as Kirby. But if Kizer works out it goes withour saying they are ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 (edited) Isn't it kind of funny how Incognito went from being perceived as a dirtbag dude out of the NFL that nobody wants to being one of the Bills' fans favorite players? He can thank Rex Ryan for that I think. Might be one of the only good things Rex did. I think it was a Richie Thing. But i have thought over what you mentioned. Rex does have a good hear for sure He is just soft. Pegulas might have had some say on this one BTW. you recall they met up pre deal. Nastiest linemen on the Bills by far. Great player. I got a bit of hero worship on him for getting his act together and balancing football aggression to be the best, and real world I am not as sold on the Browns roster (particularly the pass rushers behind Garrett) as Kirby. But if Kizer works out it goes withour saying they are ahead. oh , you and your QBs Edited August 23, 2017 by 3rdand12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 (edited) I am not as sold on the Browns roster (particularly the pass rushers behind Garrett) as Kirby. But if Kizer works out it goes withour saying they are ahead.I don't think that they are perfect but will continue to round out that roster with cap space and lots of picks. They are off to a good start. Ogbah and Collins are good pass rushers imo. Garrett might be elite. Edited August 23, 2017 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Kizer... if he turns out successful.... I expect riots at the Ralph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 (edited) Draft picks mean nothing if they aren't used correctly. The Browns had 14 picks in 2016, and so far, they have gotten virtually nothing out of that draft class. It's early, but from what I understand, only 2-3 of those picks are even slated to start this year. Out of the 2016 draft they got the following:- #1 WR - #3 WR - #4 WR - starting RT - #2 TE - backup QB - starting DE - rotational DE/DT - starting MLB - starting SLB via trade - starting CB via trade - starting S - plus additional picks in the 2017 and 2018 drafts, one of which was used to take Kizer and another Peppers Edited August 23, 2017 by BarleyNY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 (edited) Kizer... if he turns out successful.... I expect riots at the Ralph. .....appears he WILL be....just ask him............. DeShone Kizer: I can be greatest quarterback ever to play in NFL Tom Pelissero, USA TODAY Sports Published 4:18 p.m. ET April 20, 2017 | Updated 12:55 a.m. ET April 24, 2017 “Name a college quarterback who goes into the game-plan meetings on Monday and throws his notes at the coaches,” Kizer said. “No one else game plans the way I do. No one else prepares the way I do. No one else knows football the way I do. No one else is as big as I am. No one else is as powerful a runner as I am. Pat Mahomes might throw the ball 80 yards and I can only throw the ball 72, but I guarantee he can’t throw an out route the way I can. Edited August 23, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 SM needs to show the same courage as Jackson. Clearly TT is not the long term answer. This offence suits Peterman, the sooner we know if he has a chance to be the man the better. If he blows we just end up with a better first round pick. I guess I don't really see it as the same circumstances. The Browns didn't have any established starting QB on their roster. They didn't have a guy who has led a good looking offense the past 2 seasons and is looked at as the starter and a leader (on the team) by all of his teammates, like the Bills do with Tyrod. They didn't give a QB a new contract this offseason to be their starter (like with TT). They traded for Brock Osweiller but only to get that 2nd round pick. There were reports that they were going to cut him immediately after trading for him but they would have got in trouble for doing so, since you can't sell cap space for draft picks. So they gave him a shot to play and he didn't look very good. Kizer was a high draft pick and clearly has the most talent of any QB on their roster. It's been reported that he's looked like the best QB on the roster through much of the offseason, camp/practices and preseason. Where as with the Bills it's been reported most offseason/camp that Tyrod looked like the best QB on the roster (and at one point there were reports saying that it wasn't even close between him and the other 2). Peterman has maybe picked up some ground the last 2 preseason games, but I wouldn't say he's passed TT on the depth chart or earned the starting job over him yet by any means. Tyrod may not be the long term solution, but You kind of have to give TT a shot in the regular season at this point IMO. I also feel He's earned that chance with his play the last 2 years. If he sucks in this offense in the regular season, and NP continues to improve and look good, then you go to him. Plus, benching TT before a single regular season snap wouldn't be a good look to the veteran players on this team who all seem to have a lot of faith in TT. They are trying to sell a culture change and "earn everything you get". Benching TT before the regular season when nobody has really taken the job from him would be a good way to lose the locker room IMO. The move to Peterman is a lot easier to make if TT sucks in the regular season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 I guess I don't really see it as the same circumstances. The Browns didn't have any established starting QB on their roster. They didn't have a guy who has led a good looking offense the past 2 seasons and is looked at as the starter and a leader (on the team) by all of his teammates, like the Bills do with Tyrod. They didn't give a QB a new contract this offseason to be their starter (like with TT). They traded for Brock Osweiller but only to get that 2nd round pick. There were reports that they were going to cut him immediately after trading for him but they would have got in trouble for doing so, since you can't sell cap space for draft picks. So they gave him a shot to play and he didn't look very good. Kizer was a high draft pick and clearly has the most talent of any QB on their roster. It's been reported that he's looked like the best QB on the roster through much of the offseason, camp/practices and preseason. Where as with the Bills it's been reported most offseason/camp that Tyrod looked like the best QB on the roster (and at one point there were reports saying that it wasn't even close between him and the other 2). Peterman has maybe picked up some ground the last 2 preseason games, but I wouldn't say he's passed TT on the depth chart or earned the starting job over him yet by any means. Tyrod may not be the long term solution, but You kind of have to give TT a shot in the regular season at this point IMO. I also feel He's earned that chance with his play the last 2 years. If he sucks in this offense in the regular season, and NP continues to improve and look good, then you go to him. Plus, benching TT before a single regular season snap wouldn't be a good look to the veteran players on this team who all seem to have a lot of faith in TT. They are trying to sell a culture change and "earn everything you get". Benching TT before the regular season when nobody has really taken the job from him would be a good way to lose the locker room IMO. The move to Peterman is a lot easier to make if TT sucks in the regular season. .....can't say it any better, but that "voice of reason" stuff 'round here means put your kevlar vest on pronto.........they're comin'.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-8 Forever? Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 I hope they have enough faith in him this year so that they don't select a QB next year. yep. hope the kids a star Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokestradamus Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 If you think I'm unbearable now, just wait until DeShone wins the Browns a Super Bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 If you think I'm unbearable now, just wait until DeShone wins the Browns a Super Bowl. ...kid needs to curtail his bloviating....RG II 1/8 in the making with his yap.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokestradamus Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 ...kid needs to curtail his bloviating....RG II 1/8 in the making with his yap.............. Talk is cheap. I'm interested to see if he can back it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 I think they are smart. Why waste any more time of Osweiler or Kessler? Neither one of those guys are Playoff QBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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