billsfan1960 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 The Buffalo Bills history is a losing habit (culture) as their overall record from day one is 400 w, 460 L, 8 t. IMO they have to start winning and get over .500 which will start developing the winning culture that every fan wants for their individual teams. It starts at the top (owners & front office) and ends with the players. Until that happens, our culture will never change, imo. GO BILLS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 I really do believe that there is such a thing as losing cultures in sports, and that it takes more to ultimately win championships than just having some good/great players. Don't get me wrong, you need good/great players to win championships. But not every great players is able to win one, either. He has to have the right team and culture around him to do so. I have heard too many players and executives (in the NHL, NFL etc) talk about the importance of culture over the years to believe it's made up. From my own experience playing sports, the best teams I played for almost always had one thing in common - what I would call a "good team culture". It almost always started with very good coaching and the best player(s) on the team being bought in and helping push the coaches message. The first year I won a league championship with my team, we had a bunch of good players but we also had a great team culture. We all had a lot of belief in what the coaches were doing. There was a great attitude during games and practices. Even when we were down in games, we always believed that we could come back and win. There wasn't that pouting attitude or any giving up. Not every team that I've been on with good players had this. Having the right mix of personalities with the right attitudes is a significant thing IMO. I've also played on teams with some really talented players that ended up losing quite a bit and there was a noticeable difference in the coaching and/or player attitudes & belief system on those teams. When you have talented players who don't give a crap or start to pout when losing, or don't buy in to that team, it's usually not going to end well, IMO anyway. Like this one year we had a few really talented players (and what I considered to be a good team overall) but the best players were kind of jerks that formed their own little clique in the locker room and were always talking crap about the coach as well as some of their teammates and it really had a major impact on the entire team. We never won nearly as many games as we could/should have. As soon as we'd get down in the game the entire demeanor of the team changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasovon Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 For a team like the Bills, who have been mediocre for so long and unfortunate enough to play in the same division as the greatest dynasty the league has ever seen, we need to be better than other teams by a large margin. This is to both overcome our own built in culture of failure and the fact that we get absolutely no breaks from the league or it's officials in games. Until Brady retires and Bellichick leaves with him we need to essentially be a 12 win team in any other division to make the playoffs, maybe better than that. This is why our recent trades don't bother me yet, we aren't a 12 win team yet but those trades may help us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 To this I add Culture = Talent. Good talent = good "culture" bad talent = bad "culture" For the past 20 years have fans been talking about how to change the culture of this team or finding a franchise QB. I guarantee you, when the Bills find their franchise QB, this team will start winning. it will have nothing to do with culture, and everything to do with the talent. Philip Rivers, Archie Manning, etc, there is a whole list of talented QBs whose careers were wasted on teams with losing cultures. Getting a great QB sure helps, and I agree we'd see an uptick in winning. But not sure any team could go all the way on talent alone. Its both. You need talent, you also need culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasovon Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Philip Rivers, Archie Manning, etc, there is a whole list of talented QBs whose careers were wasted on teams with losing cultures. Getting a great QB sure helps, and I agree we'd see an uptick in winning. But not sure any team could go all the way on talent alone. Its both. You need talent, you also need culture. You also need to break the rules or get very lucky, look at the panthers 2015 vs 2016 two completely different outcomes from largely similar teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 100% believe Patriots* organization is Winning Culture Exhibit A It's a cheating culture first and foremost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 You also need to break the rules or get very lucky, look at the panthers 2015 vs 2016 two completely different outcomes from largely similar teams. Eh, yeah, kinda. But we're getting very NFL specific here. This is a very general, abstract topic and it's tough to look at tiny, specific examples and draw any conclusions. A better perspective would be to look at the 50 year history of the Bills with Wilson at the helm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsoldier54 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 I believe that it is a very real thing and it definitely helps teams in close games. Teams that expect to win find ways to win the close games. Teams that have a history of losing like the Bills find ways to lose close games because they expect to lose. It is a mental thing. If you refuse to lose, you will find a way to win. It has to be learned as a group. Expecting to win helps you get over the hump in close games. Expecting to lose leads to more losses, because we didn't expect to win anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasovon Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Eh, yeah, kinda. But we're getting very NFL specific here. This is a very general, abstract topic and it's tough to look at tiny, specific examples and draw any conclusions. A better perspective would be to look at the 50 year history of the Bills with Wilson at the helm. Fair point, culture definitely played a part in our 4 superbowl losses. There was a complacency there that you simply do not get with teams that win consistently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmur66 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Culture is a pyramid that is defined at the very top. What that culture is has an indirect affect on winning or losing. I would suppose that a team like the Patriots has a winning culture because they have been winning for an extended period of time. Or maybe they just have a good quarterback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted August 17, 2017 Author Share Posted August 17, 2017 Culture is a pyramid that is defined at the very top. What that culture is has an indirect affect on winning or losing. I would suppose that a team like the Patriots has a winning culture because they have been winning for an extended period of time. Or maybe they just have a good quarterback. It's definitely this. When Brady retires, the pats become an average team. The Buffalo Bills history is a losing habit (culture) as their overall record from day one is 400 w, 460 L, 8 t. IMO they have to start winning and get over .500 which will start developing the winning culture that every fan wants for their individual teams. It starts at the top (owners & front office) and ends with the players. Until that happens, our culture will never change, imo. GO BILLS its crazy, the time with "The best culture" was the time when the bills had their best quarterback. Also that "culture" sucked donkey and was known as the bickering Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 It's definitely this. When Brady retires, the pats become an average team. its crazy, the time with "The best culture" was the time when the bills had their best quarterback. Also that "culture" sucked donkey and was known as the bickering Bills. They may have bickered, but they also went into every game believing it would end in a victory for them. IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 It's definitely this. When Brady retires, the pats become an average team. its crazy, the time with "The best culture" was the time when the bills had their best quarterback. Also that "culture" sucked donkey and was known as the bickering Bills. The bickering Bills culture was 1989. They shed that during the Super Bowl years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiskibreth Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 (edited) It's definitely this. When Brady retires, the pats become an average team. its crazy, the time with "The best culture" was the time when the bills had their best quarterback. Also that "culture" sucked donkey and was known as the bickering Bills. "Culture" doesn't mean everyone always gets along or disputes don't exist. At the end of they day they were still cohesive enough to make sure it mattered when the rubber hit the road. And it also means that the culture was strong enough, particularly in leadership (and Kelly was a key leader -especially on the field), that they were still able to come together and win despite their personal differences. Edited August 17, 2017 by wiskibreth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 It's definitely this. When Brady retires, the pats become an average team. its crazy, the time with "The best culture" was the time when the bills had their best quarterback. Also that "culture" sucked donkey and was known as the bickering Bills. I dont think they had a good culture at all back then. It was loosey-goosey, and that's what our band of ultra-talented dummies wanted, but if anything it shows the perfect example of "talent will only get you so far". That loose culture didnt set curfews, and didnt set a tone for players to be self-accountable. The result was Kelly & Co. out partying to the point they could barely play, and 4 wasted Super Bowl appearances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Culture is getting the best QB in the world to play for you at $14M a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiskibreth Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Culture is getting the best QB in the world to play for you at $14M a year. culture attribute: selflessness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasovon Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 culture attribute: selflessness The money that Kraft pays to a business Brady owns probably helps that selflessness to be honest. https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/12/19/patriots-pay-business-owned-tom-brady-and-partner-with-dubious-past/C4zMzcPDgU62WMMg10qeBL/story.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted August 17, 2017 Author Share Posted August 17, 2017 culture attribute: selflessness Culture Attribute: My wife makes double what I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiskibreth Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 The money that Kraft pays to a business Brady owns probably helps that selflessness to be honest. https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/12/19/patriots-pay-business-owned-tom-brady-and-partner-with-dubious-past/C4zMzcPDgU62WMMg10qeBL/story.html Probably so. Culture Attribute: My wife makes double what I do. Doesn't matter, he's still taking less salary than market value for the betterment of the team. He could strap them like Brees if he wanted to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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