Fan in Chicago Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 (edited) I also don't understand how Beane & McD will shape the roster in their vision if they're NOT given the freedom to do so. That would be more like Levy/Jauron who executed a strategy with one hand tied behind their back. They had no choice but to build through the draft and street FAs. But, McD and Beane did have a choice. Yet they started off by not exercising that right. They got rid of few players they did not have to, not cos their contract was up, not cos they were over the cap. Their hand was not forced and yet they chose to exchange for decidedly lesser players today. I am all for roster building but you have to start with what you have, work out the rookie kinks (HC and GM), learn to manage the game, show small successes and then go on to become more ambitious. Starting off handicapping yourself on the talent side is tantamount to voluntarily chopping your hand off without needing anyone to tie it for you. Edited August 16, 2017 by Fan in Chicago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 It is just so early for this kind of talk I disagree. Badol is speculating and there is a basis for this John. This year, the Bills once again passed on a quarterback and drafted a first round corner. Who does this sound like? And yes, I know they acquired a 2018 first rounder. They deserved one for trading down 16 slots!!! In 2006, Levy/Jauron entered the draft with a 1st (#8), an early second and 2 early thirds. They came away with Whitner, McCargo, and Ashton Youboty. That's right, those three players with 4 early picks. In the 4th, they drafted Ko Simpson. In summary this, along with the trades, is not a great start. If they mess up the 2018 draft, will you still support them? In other words, is there any limit to how many bad moves you will tolerate? From where I sit, there is NO excuse for a poor draft with all of those picks. Jmo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Ehh, probably. Bills. Well, if they start drafting DBs like they're the only position on the Team, perhaps... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 But, McD and Beane did have a choice. Yet they started off by not exercising that right. They got rid of few players they did not have to, not cos their contract was up, not cos they were over the cap. Their hand was not forced and yet they chose to exchange for decidedly lesser players today. I am all for roster building but you have to start with what you have, work out the rookie kinks (HC and GM), learn to manage the game, show small successes and then go on to become more ambitious. Starting off handicapping yourself on the talent side is tantamount to voluntarily chopping your hand off without needing anyone to tie it for you. This is all under the assumption that they didn't believe that the moves they made was for the betterment of this franchise moving forward. It's ok for anyone to believe that they didn't make the right moves but I find it highly improbable that when they decided to trade Sammy and Darby that they believed they were making the calculations that they were "handicapping" this team. They made a judgement that Sammy wasn't worth the financial risk. Anyone can reasonably disagree with their decision, but that was the calculation. I disagree. Badol is speculating and there is a basis for this John. This year, the Bills once again passed on a quarterback and drafted a first round corner. Who does this sound like? And yes, I know they acquired a 2018 first rounder. They deserved one for trading down 16 slots!!! In 2006, Levy/Jauron entered the draft with a 1st (#8), an early second and 2 early thirds. They came away with Whitner, McCargo, and Ashton Youboty. That's right, those three players with 4 early picks. In the 4th, they drafted Ko Simpson. In summary this, along with the trades, is not a great start. If they mess up the 2018 draft, will you still support them? In other words, is there any limit to how many bad moves you will tolerate? From where I sit, there is NO excuse for a poor draft with all of those picks. Jmo. With all due respect, the basis of a good portion of your argument is that they pay for the sins of a Jauron/Levy's draft decisions. That is not a valid criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Jauron/Levy's drafts included more DBs drafted during their tenure than any other team in the NFL. And they drafted poorly as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimKellyTryouts Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 How the **** did this **** topic get to 7 pages? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Jauron/Levy's drafts included more DBs drafted during their tenure than any other team in the NFL. And they drafted poorly as well. Well Jauron was a free safety in the NFL right? McDermott was a DB in college. So............. Maybe they both thought they were the most important people on the field then too.... ey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Well Jauron was a free safety in the NFL right? McDermott was a DB in college. So............. Maybe they both thought they were the most important people on the field then too.... ey? Right. Didn't know that. Maybe! If you can pick up an extra DB here or there.that's fine. I would also focus on the O-line some, as Glenn is always having some level of health issue it seems,and Woods is getting up there pretty good. IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 This year, the Bills once again passed on a quarterback and drafted a first round corner. Who does this sound like? And yes, I know they acquired a 2018 first rounder. They deserved one for trading down 16 slots!!! This was a very reasonable gamble for them to take. Only Trubisky qualified as the top of the line QB available in the 2017 draft. The others had questions, and are of quality that would also be available with picks 8-15 next year. They look at 2017 as the free option to see if Tyrod can take the extra step. If he does great, they have a franchise QB. If not, they can get at least a Mahomes quality QB next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 (edited) I don't think situation compares all that much with any of the previous regimes even if the results end up being similar. The reason for this is simple: the head coach hired the GM. This is a new-ish trend in the NFL, and the Bills are at the forefront of it (I'm excluding Bill Parcells and his disciples here). If you're going to compare the Bills with other organizations, look to teams like SF, KC, and (less recently) Seattle -- places where the coach runs the show and not the GM. For the first time in modern Bills' history, we have a situation where the coach is truly in charge. The previous two Bills coaches weren't in charge but wanted to be, and the results in terms of how people worked together were ugly. I have no idea whether this approach will work. Pete Carroll and Bill Belichick are both phenomenal at what they do, although they go about it differently. Same goes for Parcells and Coughlin (like Belichick, a grad of Parcells University). I have little expectation that McDermott will measure up to these guys, but one never knows. In any event, comparing them to Levy/Jauron or Donohoe/Williams seems to be missing the bigger picture. Again, the results may end up being the same, but it's a very different organizational structure than what we as Bills fans are used to. Edited August 16, 2017 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 The value he put on Watkins tells me he won't touch a Coughlin or Parcells. But that's not really the point. One may think that this team is as poor as Levy/Jauron (although obviously the jury is out), but I'm talking about structure and approach. The coach is in the driver's seat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 (edited) This was a very reasonable gamble for them to take. Only Trubisky qualified as the top of the line QB available in the 2017 draft. The others had questions, and are of quality that would also be available with picks 8-15 next year. They look at 2017 as the free option to see if Tyrod can take the extra step. If he does great, they have a franchise QB. If not, they can get at least a Mahomes quality QB next year. Gerry the move might turn out to be a good one. I wouldn't bank on it but it's surely possible. The OP was asking if the new admin compares to Levy/Jauron and I think that there are in fact similarities at this point. Edited August 16, 2017 by Bill from NYC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Gerry the move might turn out to be a good one. I wouldn't bank on it but it's surely possible. The OP was asking if the new admin compares to Levy/Jauron and I think that there are in fact similarities at this point. As dave alluded to above, the Bills organizational structure is totally different today than it was in 2006, starting from the owner all the way down to the coach. There's no hapless name-only GM, there's no absentee director of scouting, there's no coach who can't get the resources he needs. It was the perfect storm of no accountability by anyone to no one. It is as far from today's set up as you can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Gerry the move might turn out to be a good one. I wouldn't bank on it but it's surely possible. The OP was asking if the new admin compares to Levy/Jauron and I think that there are in fact similarities at this point. But there aren't. Beane is in no way, shape, or form similar to Levy. He got here after the draft so we don't even know how a draft under him will look. McDermott shares a defensive background with Jauron but we haven't even see him coach a game yet! And as noted above, the Bills have given McD unprecedented power within the organization. It's a YUUUUGE stretch to compare the two GM/HC situations. In fact, the Bills have never operated under such a structure as the one currently in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Putting aside the structure, isn't one of the similarities the notion that star players are expendable, culture trumps talent, and holes should be plugged through the draft? I thought that was one of the premises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Putting aside the structure, isn't one of the similarities the notion that star players are expendable, culture trumps talent, and holes should be plugged through the draft? I thought that was one of the premises. All of those are assumptions the OP made -- not proven facts. This regime has consistently stated the Bills will build through the draft -- as any sound organization should. We don't know yet what that means when their drafted players come up for their 2nd and 3rd deals. It's premature to draw conclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 We just saw what it means. They ain't paying guys big money ... At least not WRs apparently. Unless of course your suggesting they didn't draft him so they don't want to pay him which is stupidity at its finest. Umm, no, we didn't. There were multiple factors playing into the Sammy decision. That fact that the Bills were pretty widely applauded for these trades should at least give you pause that Beane isn't the rube you apparently think he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Putting aside the structure, isn't one of the similarities the notion that star players are expendable, culture trumps talent, and holes should be plugged through the draft? I thought that was one of the premises. I tend to differentiate between what people say and what people do. Please point out the eras in Ralph Wilson's ownership when Bills added or were competing to add high profile veterans to the roster after April? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-8 Forever? Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 They are certainly not re-treads. That's refreshing. And I think they'll turn out to be far more capable in the long run. yeah i agree... the Sammy thing just didn't work out, he's at the end of his contract and he is not worth risking $15m/year with his brittle little slow footed (per Shady) body. They weren't resigning him in any scenario. I'm thrilled they got something good for him. Just is what it is. Darby was replaced straight up and we got a high pick. This rebuild will take years. Pray they lose out, keep the team together and get Darnold. That kid is going to be great right out of the gate it seems. This year they'll play good defense, run the dink and dunk WC offense, compete hard and win a few but the team just isn't that talented right now and doesn't have a top 10 QB, so might as well go for the draft while keeping as many good players under contract as possible. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 I tend to differentiate between what people say and what people do. Please point out the eras in Ralph Wilson's ownership when Bills added or were competing to add high profile veterans to the roster after April? Terrell Owens was far more high-profile than Boldin, who had no other offers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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