transplantbillsfan Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 You mean that the Bills D was bad? You get no argument from me there. But some people want to put all the blame on the defense and none on our below average pass game. I think it's more about balance of blame between the two than pinning it all on one side, though some posters seem to want to do that. Our defense was record breakingly bad by allowing Ajayi two 200 yard rushing games and Bell another one. 3 losses out of the 5 that really mattered since the last game was a throwaway game. No excuses for that. The D was about as close as almost entirely responsible as you can get in the NFL for the Bengals win. Might have caught a break with one of the best WRs getting injured early. And they were good in the Patriots game against a 3rd stringer, other than that, they were decent to below average to horrid. Yeah, our passing offense needs to get better, but it'd be great to have a D opponents (especially RBs) don't salivate facing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted June 18, 2017 Author Share Posted June 18, 2017 (edited) Weird logic... so the key to fixing all of our woes is simply passing more? What's weird is that no one ever said this... Does it matter if we're significantly less efficient in the run game? Or if we turn the ball over significantly more? Or, for that matter, end up with a defense that gets worse rather than better? NO... None of that matters one bit.... You really believe it's possible that the fact that we didn't pass more was what kept us out of the playoffs... despite the fact that we averaged 1 less pass per game than the #1 seed in the NFC? I posted Atlanta's worthwhile stats on the previous page (post #105)... In short, they passed for more yardage per pass, and more TD'S... ATL's overall defense was actually ranked worse than ours... Add to that a top 10 run game, and Atlanta was championship bound. Edited June 18, 2017 by #34fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 Bills call a pass play. TT holds the ball, scrambles around,(as he is capable of doing) and either takes a sack or gains some positive rush yards, maybe a first down or even more. Neither of these outcomes count as a "pass attempt." I would guess that TT, as a % of pass plays called, would have amongst the highest rates of "no throws." This is may not be a bad thing if it's because of his running talent and being "ball secure." So, as to the OP, I am unconvinced as to the point. Nice reality check on the whole picture of the passing game. The Bills actually had about 35 passing plays called per game with Taylor at QB. But just under 3 of those plays per game he was sacked for about 4.6 yards per sack and just over 3 of those plays per game he scrambled for 7.9 yards per scramble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 More attempts from a more confident passer might have meant even more TD's... Why is that so hard for you to comprehend?... If we were 14th or 15th in attempts we could have very well won more games... TT pulled the ball down and hauled-azz on many occasions where he could have thrown downfield.... Are we still denying this after last season? Every time someone speaks the truth they get attacked by TT cabana-boys defending their master... What could anyone possibly have against this stat being improved?... smh... Why do people care about this so much? Yards are yards. Points are points. Taylor scrambled for more yards per scramble (7.9) than the vast majority of NFL QBs passed per attempt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figster Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 Why do people care about this so much? Yards are yards. Points are points. Taylor scrambled for more yards per scramble (7.9) than the vast majority of NFL QBs passed per attempt. Running the football chews up the clock and when a teams trailing in the 2nd half throwing the football helps conserve time and move the football down the field more rapidly to score IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted June 18, 2017 Author Share Posted June 18, 2017 (edited) Why do people care about this so much? Yards are yards. Points are points. No they're not, and NO They are not! So what?! Tyrod scrambles for a quick 7 yards on a 2nd &10... Doesn't see a WIDE OPEN Charles clay for 20! -What good are those seven yards? We didn't get a first down, and you don't know what's gonna happen on the next play...O-line penalty... Bad snap... Now, instead of 3rd and 3 you're 3rd and 15... You think TT throws on that 3rd and 15??? -NO, he hands it off to McCoy, who gashes the D for a respectable 12 yards.... Now it's 4th and 3 on the opposing 40! TT bumped his stats... McCoy bumped his stats... The play went nowhere. Edited June 18, 2017 by #34fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavy Kevi Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 The best teams on that list range from 13-27..... So that stat means absolutely nothing at all and was not worth a thread obviously.... But... ... How the heck did it get to 7 pages? I guess that's the offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 The best teams on that list range from 13-27..... So that stat means absolutely nothing at all and was not worth a thread obviously.... But... ... How the heck did it get to 7 pages? I guess that's the offseason. Everyone's a lawyer, either for the Defense or the Prosecution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted June 19, 2017 Author Share Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) The best teams on that list range from 13-27..... So that stat means absolutely nothing at all and was not worth a thread obviously.... What a typical teenage, dirtbag, response... "The best teams on that list" were also highly competitive in several other areas of their offense... They were able to make up for their shortcomings by not being one-trick ponies.... -Which we seem to be... That one stat speaks volumes about who our offense is, and what our challenges are... But... if ignorance is what you prefer... More power to you. ... How the heck did it get to 7 pages? Because of people just... like.. you.... . Edited June 19, 2017 by #34fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2009 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 No they're not, and NO They are not! So what?! Tyrod scrambles for a quick 7 yards on a 2nd &10... Doesn't see a WIDE OPEN Charles clay for 20! -What good are those seven yards? We didn't get a first down, and you don't know what's gonna happen on the next play...O-line penalty... Bad snap... Now, instead of 3rd and 3 you're 3rd and 15... You think TT throws on that 3rd and 15??? -NO, he hands it off to McCoy, who gashes the D for a respectable 12 yards.... Now it's 4th and 3 on the opposing 40! TT bumped his stats... McCoy bumped his stats... The play went nowhere. Points aren't points? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPT Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 No they're not, and NO They are not! So what?! Tyrod scrambles for a quick 7 yards on a 2nd &10... Doesn't see a WIDE OPEN Charles clay for 20! -What good are those seven yards? We didn't get a first down, and you don't know what's gonna happen on the next play...O-line penalty... Bad snap... Now, instead of 3rd and 3 you're 3rd and 15... You think TT throws on that 3rd and 15??? -NO, he hands it off to McCoy, who gashes the D for a respectable 12 yards.... Now it's 4th and 3 on the opposing 40! TT bumped his stats... McCoy bumped his stats... The play went nowhere. In that scenario, they didn't get any points and they didn't get very many yards. That kind of undermines your argument that "yards are not yards" and "points are not points." What you really mean is "not yards are not yards" and "not points are not points." Which is obvious, but still somehow beyond your comprehension. You see, you can't completely fabricate a hypothetical situation in which the Bills don't score any points and then use it as evidence that they don't score points. It's a fallacy, and it's nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted June 19, 2017 Author Share Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) In that scenario, they didn't get any points and they didn't get very many yards. That kind of undermines your argument that "yards are not yards" and "points are not points." What you really mean is "not yards are not yards" and "not points are not points." Which is obvious, but still somehow beyond your comprehension. You see, you can't completely fabricate a hypothetical situation in which the Bills don't score any points and then use it as evidence that they don't score points. It's a fallacy, and it's nonsense. (*yawn*) -Only in an absolute vacuum are points just points, and yards just yards...I rejected that aspect of the OP's statement, right off the bat.... It's a dummy-fied observation that's disingenuous to the dynamic that exists on a football field. I removed the OP's words from that vacuum, and put them in the context of the hair-brained QB scrambles that get you no points at all... That's no fallacy.. That sh*t HAPPENED... Anyway, thanks for agreeing with the basis of my thread about 15 posts ago... Seems you like putting up your fights in reverse.. Edited June 19, 2017 by #34fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Just curious, does that include special teams pros/cons? Like when the bills get a punt received at the 3 and run it back for 40 yards or when the bills punt to the 5 and let someone run for 40 yards? Good idea to consider special teams here. I know Thurm mentioned Buffalo's average starting position vs the opponent average field position. http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/returning/sort/puntReturnYards/position/defense Looks like Buffalo's kick return special teams coverage was particularly horrible... 3rd worst in the league First of all, 16th is exactly average. Second of all, field position is a special teams statistic. We had a kicker who couldn't kick the ball through the end zone on kickoffs and a punter who finished dead last in yards per punt in the league (he also tied for first in punts out of bounds and 32nd in longest punt). I am eagerly awaiting the day you blame Tyrod for Carpenter's missed field goals and extra points. Really should have lined up for a 2 point conversion, drawn the defense offside, and then Carpenter would only have to kick a 20 yard extra point instead of a 25 yard extra point. Stupid Tyrod! Actually, I have no idea what would happen in that scenario involving offside during a 2 point conversion and then switching to an extra point. Would be an interesting factoid. Anyway, you get the point. Well, probably not. But, point made. Again... nicely stated. Special teams has really been let off the hook in a lot of ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) No they're not, and NO They are not! So what?! Tyrod scrambles for a quick 7 yards on a 2nd &10... Doesn't see a WIDE OPEN Charles clay for 20! -What good are those seven yards? We didn't get a first down, and you don't know what's gonna happen on the next play...O-line penalty... Bad snap... Now, instead of 3rd and 3 you're 3rd and 15... You think TT throws on that 3rd and 15??? -NO, he hands it off to McCoy, who gashes the D for a respectable 12 yards.... Now it's 4th and 3 on the opposing 40! TT bumped his stats... McCoy bumped his stats... The play went nowhere. You're giving a single example that isn't representative of most of his scrambles. QBs passing for 7.9 YPA are passing with great efficiency... you get that, right? 14 scrambles by Taylor were actually on 3rd down. 7 were converted. 50% conversion rate for a QB is pretty darn good. Taylor also scored 4 TDs scrambling on passing plays. These plays aren't the throwaway plays you insist they are. This just wreaks of someone who's ill-informed. Also... You and a couple other posters are being just flat out mean and rotten. You're directly insulting people who are bringing in different sides to the argument. Did you start this thread to discuss the topic or insult people? Edited June 19, 2017 by transplantbillsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Oh Lord.... here we go again. It's like that game at the fairground.... bash one thread containing a circular Tyrod argument on the head and another one pops up just as quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjt328 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 We were also dead last on completions per game... NE was #6... And on the bottom when It came to passing yards whereas NE was #4... But go ahead and make your argument in defense of dead last... I'm actually enjoying it. The link you posted was passing attempts. "One big dirty stat" as you put it. And I'm telling you that ATTEMPTS doesn't matter. Passing more times and running less isn't going to make the Buffalo Bills a better offense. In fact, it will probably make us a significantly worse team. The best parts of our team are LeSean McCoy running the ball and Tyrod Taylor scrambling. If you want to argue that Taylor needs to get better throwing the ball, I'm with you. I will agree with you 100%. He needs to get better as a pocket passer. He needs to get better using his arm. He needs to get better with accuracy and quick decision making. Absolutely no doubt in my mind. But getting better and more efficient at passing is NOT THE SAME as passing the ball more frequently. And I don't understand why so many Bills fans have trouble understanding this fact. We don't need to become a team that passes all the time to be successful. We just need to get better WHEN we pass the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 We threw the ball more than we passed for a number of reasons: * Our QB was not an elite passer. His accuracy and ability to find open guys were not among the best. * Our RB - McCoy - was elite. When you have a big gun, you shoot it. * Roman was a running game guru. He designed great running plays. * Roman was not a passing game guru. He designed simplistic, easily-defended passing plays. * The guy calling the plays - ALynn - was an ex-RB and ex-RB coach. He understood the run game and was comfortable with it. He was an inexperienced neophyte in the passing game. * Our receiving corps was relatively untalented and banged-up. Yep, TT didn't throw the ball as well as Brady or Brees last year. But that was far from the only reason our passing game wasn't more productive or didn't attempt more passes. It remains to be seen how many of our deficiencies Dennison can fix. I won't judge the 2017 offense until I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 We threw the ball more than we passed for a number of reasons: * Our QB was not an elite passer. His accuracy and ability to find open guys were not among the best. * Our RB - McCoy - was elite. When you have a big gun, you shoot it. * Roman was a running game guru. He designed great running plays. * Roman was not a passing game guru. He designed simplistic, easily-defended passing plays. * The guy calling the plays - ALynn - was an ex-RB and ex-RB coach. He understood the run game and was comfortable with it. He was an inexperienced neophyte in the passing game. * Our receiving corps was relatively untalented and banged-up. Yep, TT didn't throw the ball as well as Brady or Brees last year. But that was far from the only reason our passing game wasn't more productive or didn't attempt more passes. It remains to be seen how many of our deficiencies Dennison can fix. I won't judge the 2017 offense until I see it. but but but TT's got a high QB rating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grb Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) but but but TT's got a high QB rating Very good point, Shady! I'm impressed..... Also, Taylor does pretty well when throwing to a legitimate No. 1 & 2 receiver - something he rarely had last year, the hobbled, crippled and MIA notwithstanding...... Tyrod's stats in the 15 games where both Watkins and Woods plays : 63.6% comp. 8.25 YPA. 27 TD passes. 6 INTs Edited June 19, 2017 by grb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted June 19, 2017 Author Share Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) First you say: You don't win arguments by being snarky and obtuse, sir. Of course, any dimwit-troll eventually says: Can you even read, or do you just kinda guess what people say and then mash your keyboard until you're tired? If you're going to quote me, make sure it doesn't say the exact words I claimed it did. Only the worst posters on the board took the thread as an opportunity to bash Tyrod... I actually thought the site would be a good resource for anyone else to assemble their own stats, and theories for the upcoming season. The thread itself highlighted a passing stat that was 32nd in a ranking of 32 teams.. When coupled with other low-end passing stats, it reveals a situationthat I feel requires improvement... Why? -Because the defense could still be an issue this season... In that event, this team cannot count on an abundance of 4-12, 2-14, and 1-15 pushovers to boost our win total... We will have to out-score good teams... So, to those content with dumping the entire failed season at the feet of Rex Ryans staff, I will tell you that you are 100% not wrong.. I'll also remind you that Rex is no longer here to blame... Don't be shocked if a stat many of you dismiss, comes back to haunt you in a big way. Edited June 19, 2017 by #34fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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