Summary: Players lost/gained in 2017.

[Dragonborn10]

The depth of this Bills team is relatively weak. That may be their ultimate downfall.

 

Players are going to be injured so when there is a big drop off in talent from 1st string to second or third string that's when the team begins to lose game.

 

Again, it is the PLAYERS who win games, not the coaches. There's not a whole lot McD and his coaching staff can do when they have to field lesser talented players because their depth is weak.

Odd I would say the opposite. The depth at WR, LB, DB, OL, and Qb are all better than last year.

The problem is they don't have a starting SS, OLB, TE, RT, and if Lawson doesn't pan out at DE they have a hole at starter there as well. That doesn't even address the Sammy injury issues.

 

They have done a good job of adding a ton of middle of the road talent. That works if you have a QB or a dominant position group to mask the other starter's deficiencies. Will TT and/or the running game be good enough to overcome RT, TE, and WR group. Will the DL return to dominance? Can the DL rush the passer and defend the run at the same time.

 

We will see. This off-season feels like the Patriots early years with BB. They added a number of FA guys and cobbled together an effective defense and let Brady manage the games. Can McD undo the damage Rex did in a single year?

[billsfan714]

Roster is better. To try and predict the schedule is tough. At this time last year not many people predicted we would beat Arizona and New England and then go out to LA and beat the 3-1 Rams. Bills are definitely moving in the right direction. There are so many variables that will determine wins and losses it's not worth trying to predict. Maybe it's our turn

Its been our turn for going on 2 decades......

[Pbomb]

Odd I would say the opposite. The depth at WR, LB, DB, OL, and Qb are all better than last year.The problem is they don't have a starting SS, OLB, TE, RT, and if Lawson doesn't pan out at DE they have a hole at starter there as well. That doesn't even address the Sammy injury issues.They have done a good job of adding a ton of middle of the road talent. That works if you have a QB or a dominant position group to mask the other starter's deficiencies. Will TT and/or the running game be good enough to overcome RT, TE, and WR group. Will the DL return to dominance? Can the DL rush the passer and defend the run at the same time.We will see. This off-season feels like the Patriots early years with BB. They added a number of FA guys and cobbled together an effective defense and let Brady manage the games. Can McD undo the damage Rex did in a single year?

clay isnt a starting te? Hodges will probably start at lb and hopefully dawkins at rt, glenn came in and started right away. And i think its to early to say poyer will suck, so i think/hope we have our starters but depth is a little weak at s, de, and te.

[vincec]

The four of them must have all pro seasons for the team to make the playoffs

Probably an over statement. Heck if just Tyrod has an all pro season I would pencil them into the playoffs. If all four do then you are talking about a championship contender. The chances are so unlikely though...

[JM2009]

Its been our turn for going on 2 decades......

Good sig.

[Paul Costa]

Its been our turn for going on 2 decades......

We can't change the past only the future🤔

[Dragonborn10]

clay isnt a starting te? Hodges will probably start at lb and hopefully dawkins at rt, glenn came in and started right away. And i think its to early to say poyer will suck, so i think/hope we have our starters but depth is a little weak at s, de, and te.

I should have said question marks at starting TE and RT. Hodges hopefully solves OLB. Clay has a knee issue. Mills is terrible but Dawkins might be better. I'm not sold on Poyer.

[wilcoam]

I think the OP laid it out nicely but I disagree with his/her conclusions

I don't see the upgrade in talent for this season

 

I see the potential for the upgrade longer term, 2018 and beyond, but just not in 2017

I just don't see all these rookies, and or FA's, collectively stepping in and being instantly better than who they replaced on the roster

Its unrealistic and that's b4 injuries start occurring

I call it off season post draft itis

Everyone thinks we are always a better team after the draft, every year, but history hasn't shown this to be the case

Plus there is not a lot of continuity roster wise between last year and this year

Looks more like a transition year to me and that makes sense considering we have also changed schemes and coaches

 

I do agree at some positions we have better overall depth

And upgraded at K and FB

However our back 7 on D has radically changed and is still a work in progress

And I would argue we took a small step back in terms of on field quality, and experience, amongst our 22 starters

I see an argument that scheme will cure all but there could be an adjustment period b4 that kicks in

 

jc

[PromoTheRobot]

No doubt that the new coaches and new schemes will have a very big impact on this season, but I maintain that it is the players that make the difference.

 

In essence, the talent of the players matters more than the scheme. The point of this thread is simply to point out that the Bills are more talented this year than they were last year, although they still have some obvious holes to fill. Hopefully, they will continue to work towards that end.

 

The Bills do need to get to a point where the schemes and the coaches mostly remain the same.

 

There's a reason why teams like New England and Pittsburgh are in the playoffs virtually every year.

 

 

 

 

Do you have the time to put together a similar chart for the Steelers and Pats? People say these teams never have holes. I wonder if that's true. Edited May 27, 2017 by PromoTheRobot

[atlbillsfan1975]

Talent wise there was not a huge loss. Gilmore is good, but frustrating. Let's see what the rookies bring and the maturation of the second year guys.

 

Biggest improvement to me looks like the Bills are running the team like the majority of the has everyone new and on the same page. The way the Bills had been doing things was annoying. How can you expect continuity when you have key people from all different era's in place?

[John from Riverside]

The depth of this Bills team is relatively weak. That may be their ultimate downfall.

 

Players are going to be injured so when there is a big drop off in talent from 1st string to second or third string that's when the team begins to lose game.

 

Again, it is the PLAYERS who win games, not the coaches. There's not a whole lot McD and his coaching staff can do when they have to field lesser talented players because their depth is weak.

The coaches dont win games for you but they certainly can lose games for you

 

- Poor clock management and bad challenge calls at crucial times

- Not having teams prepared week in and week out

- Giving teams confusing schemes to execute that dont fit player's strenghthes

- Not having teams prepared to play week to week....not preaching solid tackling....enabling players to lose their temper at the wrong times by not punishing them for doing it

Talent wise there was not a huge loss. Gilmore is good, but frustrating. Let's see what the rookies bring and the maturation of the second year guys.

 

Biggest improvement to me looks like the Bills are running the team like the majority of the has everyone new and on the same page. The way the Bills had been doing things was annoying. How can you expect continuity when you have key people from all different era's in place?

I want to see if the vet experiences is replaced with youthful effort

[Uncle Joe]

What's that?

 

A little over a million dollars in cap space?

 

Yea well worth it.

 

Still the coaching defensively was abysmal the last two seasons. If that improves then the team will despite some losses in FA, IMO.

I just don't want to go through 3 Boobie Dixon's to find our next Mike Gillislee or Karlos. IIRC, I think we had a dismal game or two when Boobie was #1.

There was a whole thread discussing Gillisee I'm not going there but what I saw in JWill's limited action last year did not impress me.

I too am hoping McD can coach up this team (including JWill). Shouldn't be too hard considering the last coach (cough,cough) was Rex.

[Pbomb]

I should have said question marks at starting TE and RT. Hodges hopefully solves OLB. Clay has a knee issue. Mills is terrible but Dawkins might be better. I'm not sold on Poyer.

ya i agree with that

[BADOLBILZ]

He was a big loss like Karlos Williams was a big loss last offseason. On paper, they both produced TDs and came up big in short yardage situations.

 

But both of their biggest assets are that they are a different style than Shady.

 

I really feel like we can find someone else to plug in this year to get the same production that these guys gave us for the last 2 seasons.

 

Yep just get a different style of RB......that's all it takes to outperform McCoy.

 

Face it........Taylor's presence with the run-pass-run option was worth a good yard per attempt to all these backs.......but that doesn't do you much good if they are only normally good for about 3 ypa like Tolbert(with Cam at QB, no less)..........or Boom Herron or Cierre Wood etc..

 

They are a dime a dozen but the dime is the minimum. Bills wanted change for a nickel this offseason.

[Sweats]

Here's a list of the player lost and gained in 2017 thus far.

 

Players Lost:

 

Defense:

CB Gilmore

CB White

CB Robey-Coleman

S A. Williams

S C. Graham

LB Z. Brown

DE L. McCray

 

Offense:

QB EJ Manuel

RB Gillislee

FB J. Felton

WR Woods

WR Goodwin

OT Kouandjio

 

ST:

Carpenter

Sanborn

 

Players Added:

 

Defense:

DE Sh. Lawson (R1) - Missed most of last year

MLB R. Ragland (R2) - Missed all of last year

OLB G. Hodges

OLB M. Milano (R5)

OLB Vallejo (R6)

CB T. White (R1)

CB L. Coleman

CB Sh. Wright

S M. Hyde

S Poyer

 

Offense:

QB TJ Yates

QB N. Peterman (R5)

RB Tolbert

FB DiMarco

TE Saxton

WR Z. Jones (R2)

WR Holmes

WR Streater

WR C. Brown

WR Butler

WR Listenbee - Missed all of last year

OT D. Dawkins (R2)

OG/OT Ducasse

 

ST:

K Hauschka

P Rehkow

LS Ferguson

S Anderson - Missed all of last year

 

My take:

 

Defense: CB Gilmore and LB Z. Brown were significant losses although Gilmore was very inconsistent last year and is not generally regarded as a good tackler. The Bills played most of the year without S A. Williams, which was a big loss for them.

 

Lawson, Ragland, Hodges, Hyde, and White are all significant adds. Expect Hughes and Dareus to be a much better player in McD's system where they won't be expected to drop into coverage. Alexander may struggle as a 4-3 OLB, but should thrive as a designated pass rusher.

 

Offense: WR Woods was a good player, but was often out due to injury. WR Goodwin was good at times, but also often out due to injury.

 

DiMarco, Z. Jones, Holmes, and Dawkins are all significant adds. Peterman is an upgrade at QB. Tolbert gives the Bills the big back they need to move the chains in short yardage situations and could be a force near the goal line. WR Listenbee could surprise with his speed to get deep down the field. The biggest difference that I see on offense is that the Bills appear to be better equipped to convert on short yardage situations, which could go a long way towards extending drives and ultimately putting points on the board.

 

ST: Hauschka looks like a big upgrade over Carpenter, whose consistency had fallen way off. Hauschka will be a real weapon in close games since he is capable of kicking 55-60 yd FGs. Rehkow looks like he could unseat Schmidt since he has a stronger leg, can kick EPs/FGs in a pinch, and can also kick deep on KOs.

 

Overall: The Bills' talent appears to be better than last year, greatly helped by the fact that they essentially were handed extra R1 and R2 picks this year in Lawson and Ragland respectively. I believe that Denver has the best blocking scheme in the league and now the Bills will be utilizing that scheme under OC Dennison. QB Taylor has a chance to be a more productive player due to the nuances of this offense, which stresses the run game and a lot of play action. If studs like Watkins and Clay can finally stay healthy for the majority of the year this could be a much improved unit. But that remains a big "IF" at this point. I'd still would like to see a quality TE like G. Barnidge added to this group for more balance and unpredictability.

 

The 4-3 is a much better fit for the Bills' defensive players, especially for DE J. Hughes. Having DT M. Dareus for the entire year will go a long way. Having Ragland, Hodges, Alexander, and P. Brown at LB is an improvement over last year. Expect Alexander to be moved around like a chess piece to wreck havoc on the opposing offense. Hyde is a difference-maker at safety, but the Bills could sure use a guy like S J. Byrd to balance things out. The Bills have capable, but not great CBs. They will depend upon rookie CB T. White and second year CB K. Seymour to do a lot of the heavy lifting along with CB Darby, who had a down year last year. CBs Sh. Wright and L. Coleman add some nice depth.

 

I believe the Bills will be much improved at K and P, having added Hauschka, the third most accurate K in NFL history, as well as rookie P Rehkow, who was the best punter available in this year's draft. Expect LS Ferguson to be adequate regarding the long-snapping duties.

 

The Bills have a plethora of possible solid PRs and KRs on the roster. At PR, they have B. Tate, C. Brown, Hyde, Poyer, and White. At KR, they have Tate, C. Brown, J. Williams, and Listenbee.

 

S Anderson and LB Alexander are both standout ST players.

 

 

 

 

How can you say that Lawson and Ragland were added this year?..............they've always been here, albeit, doing NOTHING and yet another fine example of the Rex and Whaley duo, but they weren't really added to the line-up since they were a part of the team anyways.

 

Move along...........nothing to see here.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

 

 

 

How can you say that Lawson and Ragland were added this year?..............they've always been here, albeit, doing NOTHING and yet another fine example of the Rex and Whaley duo, but they weren't really added to the line-up since they were a part of the team anyways.

 

Move along...........nothing to see here.

 

Shaq actually played 10 games last year.

 

He played POORLY......but that's a pretty sizable portion of the year.

[jethro_tull]

Here's a list of the player lost and gained in 2017 thus far.

 

Players Lost:

 

Defense:

CB Gilmore

CB White

CB Robey-Coleman

S A. Williams

S C. Graham

LB Z. Brown

DE L. McCray

 

Offense:

QB EJ Manuel

RB Gillislee

FB J. Felton

WR Woods

WR Goodwin

OT Kouandjio

 

ST:

Carpenter

Sanborn

 

Players Added:

 

Defense:

DE Sh. Lawson (R1) - Missed most of last year

MLB R. Ragland (R2) - Missed all of last year

OLB G. Hodges

OLB M. Milano (R5)

OLB Vallejo (R6)

CB T. White (R1)

CB L. Coleman

CB Sh. Wright

S M. Hyde

S Poyer

 

Offense:

QB TJ Yates

QB N. Peterman (R5)

RB Tolbert

FB DiMarco

TE Saxton

WR Z. Jones (R2)

WR Holmes

WR Streater

WR C. Brown

WR Butler

WR Listenbee - Missed all of last year

OT D. Dawkins (R2)

OG/OT Ducasse

 

ST:

K Hauschka

P Rehkow

LS Ferguson

S Anderson - Missed all of last year

 

My take:

 

Defense: CB Gilmore and LB Z. Brown were significant losses although Gilmore was very inconsistent last year and is not generally regarded as a good tackler. The Bills played most of the year without S A. Williams, which was a big loss for them.

 

Lawson, Ragland, Hodges, Hyde, and White are all significant adds. Expect Hughes and Dareus to be a much better player in McD's system where they won't be expected to drop into coverage. Alexander may struggle as a 4-3 OLB, but should thrive as a designated pass rusher.

 

Offense: WR Woods was a good player, but was often out due to injury. WR Goodwin was good at times, but also often out due to injury.

 

DiMarco, Z. Jones, Holmes, and Dawkins are all significant adds. Peterman is an upgrade at QB. Tolbert gives the Bills the big back they need to move the chains in short yardage situations and could be a force near the goal line. WR Listenbee could surprise with his speed to get deep down the field. The biggest difference that I see on offense is that the Bills appear to be better equipped to convert on short yardage situations, which could go a long way towards extending drives and ultimately putting points on the board.

 

ST: Hauschka looks like a big upgrade over Carpenter, whose consistency had fallen way off. Hauschka will be a real weapon in close games since he is capable of kicking 55-60 yd FGs. Rehkow looks like he could unseat Schmidt since he has a stronger leg, can kick EPs/FGs in a pinch, and can also kick deep on KOs.

 

Overall: The Bills' talent appears to be better than last year, greatly helped by the fact that they essentially were handed extra R1 and R2 picks this year in Lawson and Ragland respectively. I believe that Denver has the best blocking scheme in the league and now the Bills will be utilizing that scheme under OC Dennison. QB Taylor has a chance to be a more productive player due to the nuances of this offense, which stresses the run game and a lot of play action. If studs like Watkins and Clay can finally stay healthy for the majority of the year this could be a much improved unit. But that remains a big "IF" at this point. I'd still would like to see a quality TE like G. Barnidge added to this group for more balance and unpredictability.

 

The 4-3 is a much better fit for the Bills' defensive players, especially for DE J. Hughes. Having DT M. Dareus for the entire year will go a long way. Having Ragland, Hodges, Alexander, and P. Brown at LB is an improvement over last year. Expect Alexander to be moved around like a chess piece to wreck havoc on the opposing offense. Hyde is a difference-maker at safety, but the Bills could sure use a guy like S J. Byrd to balance things out. The Bills have capable, but not great CBs. They will depend upon rookie CB T. White and second year CB K. Seymour to do a lot of the heavy lifting along with CB Darby, who had a down year last year. CBs Sh. Wright and L. Coleman add some nice depth.

 

I believe the Bills will be much improved at K and P, having added Hauschka, the third most accurate K in NFL history, as well as rookie P Rehkow, who was the best punter available in this year's draft. Expect LS Ferguson to be adequate regarding the long-snapping duties.

 

The Bills have a plethora of possible solid PRs and KRs on the roster. At PR, they have B. Tate, C. Brown, Hyde, Poyer, and White. At KR, they have Tate, C. Brown, J. Williams, and Listenbee.

 

S Anderson and LB Alexander are both standout ST players.

 

Nicely done, thank you. I became more optimistic about the coming season after reading this mini article. .

[vincec]

I'm trying to consolidate how Ragland, Lawson and Washington can be awesome while Whaley is a piece of crap. There is some serious dissonance on this board.

[Guest NeckBeard]

I'm trying to consolidate how Ragland, Lawson and Washington can be awesome while Whaley is a piece of crap. There is some serious dissonance on this board.

 

For me, as a Bills fan, you want to hope that with even a mediocre GM in DW that entire drafts weren't a complete waste of time, so you hope that with a new regime you get better systems where they blah blah blah make the team better and win. The 2016 draft, looking at it in the rear view, seems like a huge fail. Washington is OK, I guess. Lawson looks slow and out of place, oh yeah, and there was that whole pesky shoulder injury debacle. And nobody has a clue about Ragland. The 20-millionth Williams at RB looks like a non factor. Listenbee has been completely absent, but I guess that a guy selected that late and not playing at all shouldn't be a shock, but is more an indicator of a team selecting guys who aren't shovel ready than anything else.

 

Where I don't feel so pessimistic is where it comes to maybe, just maybe, having coaches where every game doesn't seem like I'm riding the Viper, or that the coaches and players did their homework on the bus. One hopes that we won't see terrible decision making on the field, slews of penalties, and a decent competitive level -- while they work out the issues with talent acquisition and retention.

[jethro_tull]

I'm trying to consolidate how Ragland, Lawson and Washington can be awesome while Whaley is a piece of crap. There is some serious dissonance on this board.

Because his career batting average is still appallingly low and IMHO those picks are Rex's

Edited May 28, 2017 by jethro_tull