leh-nerd skin-erd Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 25 minutes ago, SectionC3 said: Which opinions were/are incorrect? This coming from the guy who insisted that Roe v Wade conferred personhood upon a fetus a couple of days ago. FYI, attorneys are bound by rules of conduct in their professional interactions. And this forum does not involve professional interactions. Mostly it involves me mixing it up with stubborn conspiracy theorists and people who get way too angry on the Internet when somebody tells the truth about Donald Trump. (No wall! No repeal and replace! Ballooning deficits! Exploding unemployment! Pandemic! No exoneration!). I think we were playing the “judgment” game a few days ago, right? As in, I wondered whether you would contend that the issue of guilt hasn’t been resolved because the court hasn’t entered judgment in the matter. But the bottom line remains that D is convicted upon his plea of guilty even in the absence of a judgment because the judgment abides sentencing. You’d have to ask the court when sentencing will occur. Beats me. And you’re right, the case isn’t resolved inasmuch as we await sentencing and have a pending motion to withdraw the plea to be decided in the interim. But the fact remains that, as of today, the question of guilt has been resolved. And Flynn is guilty. I wasn't playing a game. You suggested that when things got complicated after you suggested he was convicted without being sure. I said all along that it's complicated, mostly because it is. Anyway, I'm not sure why it took so long to come to an agreement that the Flynn case has yet to be resolved, but we got there. Glad you came around. ? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionC3 Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 Just now, Deranged Rhino said: Removing all doubt about how deeply stupid, and dishonest, he is. Quit typing on an Internet message board and get to work on your referral. If these prosecutors acted unethically, then we have to make sure they lose their law licenses. Make sure you put in the referral that you go by the Internet moniker “Deranged Rhino.” It will give your referral more credibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 1 minute ago, SectionC3 said: Fake news. Flynn pleaded guilty. The guilty plea has not been withdrawn or vacated. Consequently, Flynn is guilty. Rule of law! Say again? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionC3 Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 Just now, leh-nerd skin-erd said: I wasn't playing a game. You suggested that when things got complicated after you suggested he was convicted without being sure. I said all along that it's complicated, mostly because it is. Anyway, I'm not sure why it took so long to come to an agreement that the Flynn case has yet to be resolved, but we got there. Glad you came around. ? But in the meantime we can agree the question of his guilt has been resolved, and that he is guilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 Section C3 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 Go ahead again and claim the Department of Justice isn't a governing body of the Department of Justice. That was blue ribbon stupidity there 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 36 minutes ago, SectionC3 said: I’m not familiar with the facts, but there are two truisms about the case. 1. Flynn pleaded guilty. If he had the information that you mentioned before he pleaded guilty, then he’s waived any complaints about the effect of that information on his guilty plea (save for IAC, but that’s a different question and much harder to establish). 2. If this material was withheld by the prosecution prior to the guilty plea and only disclosed after the guilty plea, then the story might be different. Perhaps it’s Brady, and perhaps the withholding of Brady requires vacatur of the plea. That’s something that should have been the subject of Flynn’s motion to vacate the plea. Again, it’s not something I’m going to spend a ton of time on, but my understanding is that the motion to vacate is based on the government changing its position with respect to sentencing. That is, I understand Flynn to have complained of a “bait and switch” in the plea agreement, not that he was induced to plead guilty by exculpatory material in the sole possession of the government that was withheld by the government. Flynn did plead guilty and I am not disputing that. However, it is not like defendants have never entered guilty pleas to something they didn't really believe they did because it avoided the potential of something much worse. Setting politics aside and speaking strictly from the perspective of effective representation, I have serious questions about the attorneys that originally represented him, and I could give you a number of issues that raise real concerns for me. Although, I grant you that IAC is a difficult path to take. I don't think it will be necessary in this case. The facts that I outlined were not known at the time Flynn entered his plea and more information is continuing to surface. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionC3 Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 Just now, Deranged Rhino said: Go ahead again and claim the Department of Justice isn't a governing body of the Department of Justice. That was blue ribbon stupidity there Actually, Beavis, the DOJ is the employer and can hire and fire re: unethical conduct. But the question whether these “unethical” prosecutors can continue to practice law is to be answered by the courts. It seems to me like the public not only needs, but demands, your insight on this unethical conduct to make sure that these attorneys don’t prosecute another case or harm another participant in the legal system. Just now, billsfan1959 said: Flynn did plead guilty and I am not disputing that. However, it is not like defendants have never entered guilty pleas to something they didn't really believe they did because it avoided the potential of something much worse. Setting politics aside and speaking strictly from the perspective of effective representation, I have serious questions about the attorneys that originally represented him, and I could give you a number of issues that raise real concerns for me. Although, I grant you that IAC is a difficult path to take. I don't think it will be necessary in this case. The facts that I outlined were not known at the time Flynn entered his plea and more information is continuing to surface. All of that might be true. But let’s agree on one thing: Flynn is guilty, as of 3:58 p.m. today. That’s undeniable. Whether he is allowed to withdraw his plea and relitigate that question remains to be seen. 1 minute ago, billsfan1959 said: Flynn did plead guilty and I am not disputing that. However, it is not like defendants have never entered guilty pleas to something they didn't really believe they did because it avoided the potential of something much worse. Setting politics aside and speaking strictly from the perspective of effective representation, I have serious questions about the attorneys that originally represented him, and I could give you a number of issues that raise real concerns for me. Although, I grant you that IAC is a difficult path to take. I don't think it will be necessary in this case. The facts that I outlined were not known at the time Flynn entered his plea and more information is continuing to surface. Let’s hear about the IAC and the issue whether the alleged lack of meaningful representation infected the plea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 1 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 17 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said: I almost feel sorry (not really) for Muller after that display before Congress last year. In my mind, he walked into work every other Friday and said, "What's up" while that piece of ***** ***** Andrew Weissmann ran the show. My only real shock has always been that they did not manufacturer anything against Trump. Part 2 was to smear him with feelz, but that was about it. Don't. He is an arrogant pr**k who has left an incalculable level of destruction in his wake... 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionC3 Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said: These dudes saw ThirdnLong, didn’t they? Sad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 Just now, billsfan1959 said: Don't. He is an arrogant pr**k who has left an incalculable level of destruction in his wake... Great! Then let's see the complete unredacted report. Let the truth out... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, SectionC3 said: But in the meantime we can agree the question of his guilt has been resolved, and that he is guilty. We can agree that you absolutely think it. 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionC3 Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: We can agree that you absolutely think it. In my experience when someone pleads guilty the law views that person as guilty. Maybe you have different experience with respect to the law that you would care to share. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 Everyone in Trumps orbit is above the law - why is that? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 1 minute ago, BillStime said: Great! Then let's see the complete unredacted report. Let the truth out... One has nothing to do with the other. Ignoring, for the moment, the fact (1) a full unredacted report cannot be released and (2) your apparent complete ignorance on why, I could not care less whether or not a full unredacted version is ever released. It has nothing to do with my assessment of Mueller. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 1 minute ago, billsfan1959 said: One has nothing to do with the other. Ignoring, for the moment, the fact (1) a full unredacted report cannot be released and (2) your apparent complete ignorance on why, I could not care less whether or not a full unredacted version is ever released. It has nothing to do with my assessment of Mueller. @Deranged Rhino - don’t you get tired of logging in and out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionC3 Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 4 minutes ago, BillStime said: @Deranged Rhino - don’t you get tired of logging in and out? He’s getting busy on his referral of the Flynn prosecutors to the appropriate attorney grievance committee. Cut him some slack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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