Coach Tuesday Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 (edited) Right. Because of one player. No, not because of one player. Because they trust their process and develop players into success stories. Patrick Chung bombed during his first stint in NE, left, and came back and developed into a very good safety. They took a gamble on Marcus Cannon who was recovering from lymphoma, were patient with him as he had a rough first couple of years, and watched him blossom into a fine young player whom the Bills would gladly insert at right tackle. Logan Ryan was considered a "reach" pick and had trouble getting on the field until last year where he proved that he had developed into a quality player (and they let him cash in elsewhere). There are many other examples. The Patriots acquire players with a specific goal in mind and they are patient in developing them. Again, you really should try focusing on what happens on the field. You might learn something. Edited April 25, 2017 by Coach Tuesday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Draft smart, versatile players who love the game and are not scheme-dependent. Put them in a position to excel by emphasizing their strengths and scheming around their weaknesses. Keep the scheme on defense simple. Invest more heavily in undervalued positions/schemes. Collect cheap assets through the draft and trade all but the most valuable core of them for younger assets (picks) when their price tags exceed reasonable replacement value, i.e., when it's time for their second contract. Coach....you are right but It seems to me that a lot of their players dont pan out......everyone knows why the patriots win....HOF QB and superior head coaching. they can afford to be wrong in a lot of other areas of their team more then other teams can because of that reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 I still think Hogan is one of the most overrated players in the league. I watched his big games with the pats. He excelled because he was basically left uncovered a fair amount of the time, or because a defender blew an assignment. He's a decent receiver, but obviously made better by Brady, as Brady has done with a lot of players over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Coach....you are right but It seems to me that a lot of their players dont pan out......everyone knows why the patriots win....HOF QB and superior head coaching. they can afford to be wrong in a lot of other areas of their team more then other teams can because of that reason. They also look for ways to create mismatches...which is why they look for 2 good TEs...forces D to stay in base because of threat of the run and then the TEs can create huge mismatches...why I want us to draft Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 (edited) No, not because of one player. Because they trust their process and develop players into success stories. Patrick Chung bombed during his first stint in NE, left, and came back and developed into a very good safety. They took a gamble on Marcus Cannon who was recovering from lymphoma, were patient with him as he had a rough first couple of years, and watched him blossom into a fine young player whom the Bills would gladly insert at right tackle. Logan Ryan was considered a "reach" pick and had trouble getting on the field until last year where he proved that he had developed into a quality player (and they let him cash in elsewhere). There are many other examples. The Patriots acquire players with a specific goal in mind and they are patient in developing them. Again, you really should try focusing on what happens on the field. You might learn something. That sounds like Whaley drafting a DE with a shoulder issue that needed surgery. But I've read he was dumb for doing that. Also, are you actually praising Belichick for developing Logan Ryan and letting him walk?? Edited April 25, 2017 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Be careful what you wish for Bills fans, Whaley is by far the best GM that's been here since Bill Polian and this may be the year he proves to be in the upper 20% if we get 2 or 3 contributors in this draft which is very realistic.I know. He does a great job with the draft too. Look at all those starters he selected! And he sure is stingy with those draft picks!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 That sounds like Whaley drafting a DE with a shoulder issue that needed surgery. But I've read he was dumb for doing that. Whaley drafted for need and yes, he was dumb for doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madd Charlie Posted April 25, 2017 Author Share Posted April 25, 2017 (edited) But yet the bills are no better than the day whaley was promoted. You don't let production like MG walk for that salary. Same with Hogan. There is no vision by whaley. You keep Hogan let woods walk. not bad. You keep MG, knowing that when hes been in theres been no drop between him and McCoy. Its always 1 step forward and 3 steps back with this team. If people think a RB with fumbling issues, that looked below average last year is going to fill MG shoes your mistaken. Not to mention McCoy is pushing 30, and who knows when father time will hit him. I get why you would say that but what kind of long-term strategy could you have when you have to find players for Marrone then Wrex and now McDermott all within just the last 5 years? Edited April 25, 2017 by Madd Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Whaley drafted for need and yes, he was dumb for doing it. As opposed to every other team that drafts players they don't need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 He is the best GM at finding waiver wire and low budget FA's and honestly I don't even think it's close...look at all the productive players we have gotten via that route since he has been here... Whaley is a very good pro personnel guy. GM is a far more encompassing position for which he is not qualified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 TJ Graham/Russell Wilson. EJ. Also, guys like Gilmore getting big(ger) money on second contracts is what the NFL is all about. MG and Hogan got money commensurate with their value. Jon Williams may be MG's roster "replacement", but there is significant doubt he can replace MG's production, which just walked out the door. I bet BB is pretty pleased for what he got from Hogan last year for a few million. Everyone gets a ring... Graham and EJ were Nix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 As opposed to every other team that drafts players they don't need. Legendary response - classic PTR gamesmanship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 (edited) Coach....you are right but It seems to me that a lot of their players dont pan out......everyone knows why the patriots win....HOF QB and superior head coaching. they can afford to be wrong in a lot of other areas of their team more then other teams can because of that reason. It's way more nuanced why NE wins...they set the trends which develop mismatches. Just one example is how they focused in 2010 on adding TE's who could run the middle of the field. Or in recent years, having a back who punishes DB's behind their OL. The same DB's who then have to defend against their (as of last year) 2 TE's. Other teams followed their lead on that, which is easier because college TE's are more often pass-catchers. People focus so much on players because they can't see scheme until it hits them right in the face. Minimizing NE's success down to Brady and Belichick is intellectually dishonest and an easy out for those who know their team is still scrambling around trying to field a decent roster. Edited April 25, 2017 by BillsVet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santana Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Yeah Whaley takes a lot of heat but he's actually not as "terrible" as everyone makes him out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Graham and EJ were Nix. Remember when Whaley traded LaMonica to Oakland for practically nothing? Legendary response - classic PTR gamesmanship. Just pointing out how ludicrous your defense of the Pats has become. You hammer Whaley for losing Gilislee but praise Belichick for letting Logan Ryan walk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Just pointing out how ludicrous your defense of the Pats has become. You hammer Whaley for losing Gilislee but praise Belichick for letting Logan Ryan walk. Yup, I ludicrously defend the best-run organization in the NFL. Whereas you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSOL Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Wait, is this some sort of "Whaleys not that bad" thread? Blasphemy! I tells ya! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Yeah Whaley takes a lot of heat but he's actually not as "terrible" as everyone makes him out to be. He has a good eye for talent. The roster right now is really very good. I'm actually pretty surprised at how active we've been this offseason. I thought we wouldn't be able to do much given the cap situation, but they did a good job of clearing space and bringing in players for depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 It's way more nuanced why NE wins...they set the trends which develop mismatches. Just one example is how they focused in 2010 on adding TE's who could run the middle of the field. Or in recent years, having a back who punishes DB's behind their OL. The same DB's who then have to defend against their (as of last year) 2 TE's. Other teams followed their lead on that, which is easier because college TE's are more often pass-catchers. People focus so much on players because they can't see scheme until it hits them right in the face. Minimizing NE's success down to Brady and Belichick is intellectually dishonest and an easy out for those who know their team is still scrambling around trying to field a decent roster. ok.....so how do you think their team would fair without Brady and BB....... for us intellectually dishonest people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 ok.....so how do you think their team would fair without Brady and BB....... for us intellectually dishonest people BB is their GM, so not well. They would have to change their strategy significantly without Brady, but I wouldn't bet against them. They'd switch to a simpler system on offense, probably more run-heavy. They'd still likely be in the hunt every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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