Could Derek Barnett wind up being the sleeper pick of them a

[BillsFan17]

 

I was a prick on BBMB for a long time with insults and infractions galore. I've held myself in check a lot better here because I love having a place to get into discussions and debates. This **** gets old real fast these days

 

Chalk it up to experience for both of us. No hard feelings on my part but you got under my skin fast with that. One of the few things that gets my back up and brings out the hostility. I don't have much but my word is something I take pride in.

 

I'll know better for next time. It's just difficult to pick up context through text and I probably jumped the gun, so I'm sorry for that.

Weren't yoi Blokesandhoes or something along those lines back on BBMB?!?!

 

We are both fans of a teams trying to get out of the basement, I understand tempers run hot.

 

I apologize and as a matter of fact I'll look closer at your material for reference knowing a bit of your background. I need all the info I can get my hands on.

 

Now, thay being said, having been on these boards as much as you have and having put in the work you have... is it not fair to say there are plenty of fonies and people who really don't know much other than media rankings?

[Lothar]

Hey, free speech, do you. I am not saying you aren't entitled to pop off at any given time. Doesn't bother me one bit. Clearly you were offended, I didn't think for a second that would be interupted to that extent.

 

I say absurd stuff all the time, I figured most would remember me from BBMB. Member there since back in '04 (BillsFan, no 17 on the end at BBMB) so I was pretty well known in regards to my types of posts.

 

The draft season tends to bring out all sides of people it seems.

 

Hell, watch this tho, I'll even apologize if I offended you. I don't need any Internet validation. I will apologize if what I said bothered you to that extent.

 

Not that he needs it and I've been on here since way before the Bills had a message board, but you did come in guns blazing on one of our best posters. That said, glad you made peace with him.

 

I'd sooner take Blokes' and Bandit's recs on a draftable player than most of the talking heads.

[Blokestradamus]

Weren't yoi Blokesandhoes or something along those lines back on BBMB?!?!

 

We are both fans of a teams trying to get out of the basement, I understand tempers run hot.

 

I apologize and as a matter of fact I'll look closer at your material for reference knowing a bit of your background. I need all the info I can get my hands on.

 

Now, thay being said, having been on these boards as much as you have and having put in the work you have... is it not fair to say there are plenty of fonies and people who really don't know much other than media rankings?

 

I used to be one of those guys that looked at things like the CBS draft rankings and had a mock draft in my BBMB signature based off it. As long as people are honest with how they acquire information, it's all good. I know that more people are looking at sites like Draft Breakdown for insight so there's less borrowed opinion around than there has been. I hated borrowing opinions and wanted to form my own because I would vouch for the success/failure of others.

 

Doesn't mean that I know anything but I treat this hobby of mine as a process. I'm the nerd with a grading system and scout report templates because I found my passion in my mid 20's.

[CEN-CAL17]

Some folks just know how to kill a thread...

 

Nothing I hate more than the thread police and the know-it-all one uppers!!!

[Blokestradamus]

Some folks just know how to kill a thread...

 

Nothing I hate more than the thread police and the know-it-all one uppers!!!

 

My apologies for derailing the discussion. Feel free to resume hating me for my pass rusher takes

[Cripple Creek]

 

My apologies for derailing the discussion. Feel free to resume hating me for my pass rusher takes

hack

[BillsFan17]

 

I used to be one of those guys that looked at things like the CBS draft rankings and had a mock draft in my BBMB signature based off it. As long as people are honest with how they acquire information, it's all good. I know that more people are looking at sites like Draft Breakdown for insight so there's less borrowed opinion around than there has been. I hated borrowing opinions and wanted to form my own because I would vouch for the success/failure of others.

 

Doesn't mean that I know anything but I treat this hobby of mine as a process. I'm the nerd with a grading system and scout report templates because I found my passion in my mid 20's.

Which is absolutely awesome. I used to he as heavily involved, but between being married and having children my time is spread so much more thing and less allocated to the draft.

 

That and I found my self letting bias get in the way. But believe me I am very involved in the draft and the process, but I learned on BBMB, even the best of information or systems can feel pointless at times. So I got to the point where I shared my opinion more with friends and stuff like that while hanging out and such.

 

My apologies for derailing the discussion. Feel free to resume hating me for my pass rusher takes

Well now, how you feel about Harris being said to be shooting up boards and possibly not making it out of the top 15?

 

Not that he needs it and I've been on here since way before the Bills had a message board, but you did come in guns blazing on one of our best posters. That said, glad you made peace with him.

 

I'd sooner take Blokes' and Bandit's recs on a draftable player than most of the talking heads.

I think blokes and my self have hashed it out...

 

Believe me that was far from guns blazing, it was a non serious comment about how in depth he takes this.

 

I understand his following around here, but like I said, I think we got a handle on this.

[Blokestradamus]

Well now, how you feel about Harris being said to be shooting up boards and possibly not making it out of the top 15?

 

I understand it. There's bound to be a few teams with a stagnant pass rush that sees his flash plays and values that highly. He's one of a few guys that the league will value higher than I do because I tend to like my pass rushers being well-rounded.

 

If Harris can harness what he does well, he'll probably be worth it. Mizzou has developed a few technically-solid guys recently, Markus Golden turned out much better than I expected.

[BillsFan17]

 

I understand it. There's bound to be a few teams with a stagnant pass rush that sees his flash plays and values that highly. He's one of a few guys that the league will value higher than I do because I tend to like my pass rushers being well-rounded.

 

If Harris can harness what he does well, he'll probably be worth it. Mizzou has developed a few technically-solid guys recently, Markus Golden turned out much better than I expected.

I was going to say, I feel like Mizzou has churned out a lot of pass rushers in recent memeory. Wonder what it is about their program over there.

 

That being said, I wonder if the depth at DB is giving teams a sense they can wait and in turn forcing other players up.

 

Then again, I have always felt that edge is almost as over drafted as QB.

[dave mcbride]

Since, unlike some others, you asked nicely, I'm happy to oblige because I'm a lovely fella

 

I've already gone into the athletic restrictions on Barnett which is a big part of why he's outside the 1st round for me. He's also a snap jumper and lines up offside a ton (which isn't always called). As Gunner said, his hands are really impressive (up there with Jon Allen for sheer brutality) and he plays with a high motor. I think he can be a 6-8 sack type of guy but I'm not investing a premium pick into that type of player.

 

Taco is an interesting player because he's got really solid hands and he has the length that allows him room to work them. I think he's still fundamentally quite raw but he's not at the peak of his powers yet. He can be a quality speed-to-power rusher from the LDE spot but I don't see a lot of bend with him. He needs to develop some consistency with his counters because he has to win with power/technique rather than with athletic ability. Can be a really good player by Year 2-3 but his body of work leaves him as a project for now. If he made it to 44, I'd bite your hand off for him.

 

Harris is the one I struggle with the most because the coaching changed at Mizzou last year and he struggled. He was well taught under Craig Kuligowski until the end of 2015 so you hope that he's not a problem child buying into a new system. His spin move is the trump card but his testing was borderline atrocious (even with his improvement at his Pro Day, it was only comparable to Yannick Ngakoue). He definitely plays faster/more agile than he tests though. Like Ngakoue (8 sacks as a rookie), I think he's fairly one-dimensional for now and suited to being a designated pass rusher. I think he's scheme-versatile as well, which boosts his stock.

 

Just because I don't have a 1st rounder on a player doesn't mean that I hate him. It's just that athleticism on the edge matters and I can't take Barnett/Harris really early because they fall short of certain benchmarks. That's not to say that they can't be good players and, if I'm wrong on them, I'll admit to my mistakes.

You don't sound like you're hating on the guy at all. Being a second round pick is a real achievement for anyone, and it's no sign that a player can't play well and even excel when he's both labeled and drafted as such.

[Blokestradamus]

I was going to say, I feel like Mizzou has churned out a lot of pass rushers in recent memeory. Wonder what it is about their program over there.

 

That being said, I wonder if the depth at DB is giving teams a sense they can wait and in turn forcing other players up.

 

Then again, I have always felt that edge is almost as over drafted as QB.

 

I'd tell you to watch out for pass rush from Miami over the next 2-3 years. That's where the old Mizzou DL coach went to, dude created a factory there.

 

Pass rush is essential so I understand the overvaluing aspect. You might be right on the depth of the class too, teams are likely convinced they can skip DB in the 1st and get a contributor later.

[GunnerBill]

 

My apologies for derailing the discussion. Feel free to resume hating me for my pass rusher takes

 

 

Right...... where do I start.......?

 

On a serious note I obviously disagree strongly on Barnett but I am much closer to you on Taco and Harris. I have Taco as a borderline guy (1st/2nd) and Harris firmly as a 2nd rounder.

 

 

EDIT: And Blokes why are you up ranting about pass rushers at 3.20am? Adjusting your body clock for the draft?

Edited April 26, 2017 by GunnerBill

[Chandler#81]

We need a homerun in this draft. It's a must.

Sad, isn't it?

Every year on this week our entire fan base prays and screams this. We may 'win the offseason' but when the smoke clears, we're still the 7-9 Bills forever..

[GunnerBill]

Sad, isn't it?

Every year on this week our entire fan base prays and screams this. We may 'win the offseason' but when the smoke clears, we're still the 7-9 Bills forever..

 

Maybe we should forget about home run drafts and draft a Quarterback who might not even play in year 1 but could go on to be the future of the franchise?

[Blokestradamus]

Right...... where do I start.......?

 

On a serious note I obviously disagree strongly on Barnett but I am much closer to you on Taco and Harris. I have Taco as a borderline guy (1st/2nd) and Harris firmly as a 2nd rounder.

 

EDIT: And Blokes why are you up ranting about pass rushers at 3.20am? Adjusting your body clock for the draft?

 

Knowing what I do about how you value pass rush traits, I get why we differ on Barnett. I might take on TJ Watt and Trey Hendrickson today and make the Barbarian hate me too

 

I slept most of the evening with a migraine so I was wide awake. Good timing though.

[GunnerBill]

 

I slept most of the evening with a migraine so I was wide awake. Good timing though.

 

I am off tomorrow and Friday. The plan tomorrow is up early, gym for 9.30, supermarket to get my "supplies" for the evening, finalise my mock draft and publish here by early afternoon, quick nap, up for dinner, glass of wine, back to bed, up at midnight, coffee on, pizza in oven and prepare for the Browns going on the clock.

 

What could be better?

[mannc]

 

Since, unlike some others, you asked nicely, I'm happy to oblige because I'm a lovely fella

 

I've already gone into the athletic restrictions on Barnett which is a big part of why he's outside the 1st round for me. He's also a snap jumper and lines up offside a ton (which isn't always called). As Gunner said, his hands are really impressive (up there with Jon Allen for sheer brutality) and he plays with a high motor. I think he can be a 6-8 sack type of guy but I'm not investing a premium pick into that type of player.

 

Taco is an interesting player because he's got really solid hands and he has the length that allows him room to work them. I think he's still fundamentally quite raw but he's not at the peak of his powers yet. He can be a quality speed-to-power rusher from the LDE spot but I don't see a lot of bend with him. He needs to develop some consistency with his counters because he has to win with power/technique rather than with athletic ability. Can be a really good player by Year 2-3 but his body of work leaves him as a project for now. If he made it to 44, I'd bite your hand off for him.

 

Harris is the one I struggle with the most because the coaching changed at Mizzou last year and he struggled. He was well taught under Craig Kuligowski until the end of 2015 so you hope that he's not a problem child buying into a new system. His spin move is the trump card but his testing was borderline atrocious (even with his improvement at his Pro Day, it was only comparable to Yannick Ngakoue). He definitely plays faster/more agile than he tests though. Like Ngakoue (8 sacks as a rookie), I think he's fairly one-dimensional for now and suited to being a designated pass rusher. I think he's scheme-versatile as well, which boosts his stock.

 

Just because I don't have a 1st rounder on a player doesn't mean that I hate him. It's just that athleticism on the edge matters and I can't take Barnett/Harris really early because they fall short of certain benchmarks. That's not to say that they can't be good players and, if I'm wrong on them, I'll admit to my mistakes.

Thanks! What kind of grade did you have on Shaq last year? Did you have him rated higher than his teammate, Kevin Dodd?

[GunnerBill]

Thanks! What kind of grade did you have on Shaq last year? Did you have him rated higher than his teammate, Kevin Dodd?

 

I can't remember what Blokes had but I had a top 10 grade on Shaq and a 2nd rounder on Dodd.

[Blokestradamus]

Thanks! What kind of grade did you have on Shaq last year? Did you have him rated higher than his teammate, Kevin Dodd?

 

Shaq was my 19th ranked player with a late 1st grade. His film score came out better than Solomon Thomas by 0.5 so he would be my 2nd rated EDGE this year (was my #3 last year behind Bosa & Noah Spence).

 

Dodd was #31 on my board, 2nd round grade. Between injury and being drafted to a 3-4 scheme behind Morgan and Orakpo, his rookie year was a waste.

[first_and_ten]

 

I can't remember what Blokes had but I had a top 10 grade on Shaq and a 2nd rounder on Dodd.

I know people have killed Whaley for taking Lawson because he was injured, but it actually may be the reason Lawson lasted until the Bills pick. If Lawson turns out to be a beast, then it was a stroke of genius. To get a great player and the only downside was losing 6 games then I'm all for it.

Edited April 26, 2017 by first_and_ten

[GunnerBill]

 

Shaq was my 19th ranked player with a late 1st grade. His film score came out better than Solomon Thomas by 0.5 so he would be my 2nd rated EDGE this year (was my #3 last year behind Bosa & Noah Spence).

 

 

Was my #2 last year and would be my #2 this year. I don't think anyone here was higher on Shaq than me so if he busts I stand to look silly. I'm still confident he will be very good for us.

[BillsCuse]

Wouldn't like DE with our first pick at all. With a large contract to Hughes and a 1st round pick in Shaq last year, I just think we need to use this pick elsewhere. And I understand you can never have enough pass rushers, but there are so many different routes we can take at 10 and depending on how the board falls I think the value might line up with some of our needs this year. (I understand never reaching for a need) Would rather go with someone like Reddick who can play LB and still be a situational pass rusher.