Thurman#1 Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 (edited) @yardsperpass 79th percentile athleticism for an edge player... The Lawson isn't a good athlete narrative is completely false https://3sigmaathlete.com/rankings2016/edge/ I don't think they're saying he isn't a good athlete. Just that his athletic strengths seem to be more related to power than explosiveness. Which is much the same as what Benoit was saying, IMHO. Here's some excerpts from the NFL.com's draft profiles on him: http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/shaq-lawson?id=2555252 "STRENGTHS Built like a tank with thickly muscled legs and a broad chest. Clemson played him at 5-technique and standing up on the outside. Scheme versatile and will likely appeal to be 3-4 and 4-3 teams. Very powerful at the point of attack. Able to punch, extend arms and control the line of scrimmage or set a hard edge. Able to shock and shed blockers and has the hand quickness to staggered block attempts. Power allows him to play on other side of the line. Finished second in the nation in "stuffs" for defensive linemen with 17. Comes off ball low and with forward lean into his rush. Has frame to handle a double team. Has plus instincts and feel for the game. Toughness in full display. "WEAKNESSES Thickly bound with very average flexibility. Average athlete for an end position. Not a natural hip bender and will have to focus on keeping pad level lower to unlock his leverage potential. Shows obvious signs of fatigue as game wears on. At times, is too content to lean on blocks when play isnt run to his side rather than working to discard. Will have snaps where he seems more concerned with imposing his will on blocking rather than diagnosing the play. Doesnt have the bend or upper body flexion to be edge turner as pass rusher. Effort sacks will diminish in pros and will need to become more nuanced pass rusher. "DRAFT PROJECTION Round 1 "SOURCES TELL US "I see Shaq as an outside linebacker in a 3-4. He's not the guy you want to turn loose against the quarterback, but he is the guy that will make it hard for tight ends to block him in the run game. We knew we couldnt run at him and it changed how we called plays." -- ACC offensive coach "NFL COMPARISON Courtney Upshaw" That's pretty much what has been said about him all along, tough, fiery, great against the run and at holding the edge. Will get sacks on effort and strength, but not really an edge bender, as Benoit says. Edited April 26, 2017 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 (edited) As PolishDave kinda referenced, you're probably never going to like Taylor because he's never ever going to be Brady or Rivers or Brees. There's always going to be a component of escape ability and improvisation to his game. But the thing is, Aaron Rodgers has proven that even if those components are big parts of your game, you can still be great. No, I'm not saying Taylor is at Rodgers's level or ever will be. I'm saying that you (and others) have in your mind a QB mold that Taylor will absolutely never be, even if he becomes great (which he isn't). Taylor was actually hitting WRs over the middle more consistently (and effectively) in 2016 than 2015. But you say he has to be "INCREDIBLY" consistent. Seems like something he could never achieve. Or if he became "INCREDIBLY" consistent, the bar goes up to "SUPER DUPER INCREDIBLY" consistent. Taylor's not the "pure pocket passer" some want. It doesn't mean a QB with his playing style and skill set can't be great (and again, no, I'm not saying he's great or will be). Yes, he was hitting guys over the middle consistently. But unfortunately, it was the short middle, an area he's never had a problem with. In the deep and intermediate middle third - the area he's always thrown to very little - he continued to avoid it.Which makes the passing game easier to defend, because if a guy fakes outside and goes in you can bit on the outside fake and not get punished very often, whereas if he fakes inside, you're probably not going to fall for it or worry about it. And nobody wants QBs who can't run. You're missing the point. Running is fine. It's just a lot less important than the ability to run an NFL-standard passing game while doing things like throwing to the deep and intermediate middle third about a third of the time you go deep or intermediate, or making anticipation throws often and skillfully or staying in the pocket consistently when you have time to stay there. Things like that. We want a QB who can throw. If he can run like Tarvaris or Alex Smith or Rodgers or Wilson, hey, so much the better, but not mandatory. Having said that, now that he's being paid as a bridge QB, he makes sense. He's one of the absolute best bridges in football and his terrific work ethic and drive make him very much worth cheering for. Edited April 26, 2017 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 (edited) those bama boys play a whole lot of games against future NFL talent (including playoff and championship), and all the games count so they arent sitting unless they are dead. id imagine they probably are the most beat up by the end of a couple years. you also have a coach who thinks celebrating a championship means getting back in the weight room the next morning at 7am! im not saying scrap them from plans, but that commentary about them isnt shocking. It will be interesting to see if Alabama continues to produce injury prone players that if NFL teams continue to draft those players so high. If NFL teams draft Alabama players lower based on wear and tear if will be interesting to see if high end recruits still end up going to Alabama knowing that going to that school will mean lower draft positioning even if they execute and do well. Or will Alabama readjust their injury management systems to help ensure the longer term health of their players. Alabama has to remember that recruits are most attracted by places where they will have a path to be drafted the highest. If going to Alabama carries a reputation of long term durability concerns which results in a lower draft status then it is likely high end recruits might shy away from Alabama once such a reputation is earned. Edited April 26, 2017 by billsfan89 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 One could argue Tyrod is more of a pocket passer than Cam Newton is. Tyrod ran a combined 199 times in his last 2 years as a starter. Cam Newton ran a combined 222 times in his last 2 years. Tyrod outgained him though because he is more athletic than Cam Newton. Newton gained 995 yards. Tyrod gained 1148 with less runs. By the way, Tyrod also beat him in passing stats. Tyrod was more accurate - considerably more so. Higher completion percentage. Higher yards per pass. Face it. For as much flak as Tyrod has gotten from Bills "fans" - he has actually been a better player than Cam Newton who is held in such high regard around here. How many people would have guessed that? Weird huh? But Dave, I read that the only passing stat that matters is total passing yards and that our passing game is "bottom of the barrel." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokestradamus Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 Benoit explained it this way (makes sense) @andy_benoit Edge setters hold ground, edge benders cover ground. #Patriots prefer edge-setters over edge-benders at defensive end. A plus because edge-setters are much cheaper. It's why Rob Ninkovich has been a fixture on their roster. Dude has made around $3m/year on average in Boston and been a highly-productive pain in the arse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted April 26, 2017 Author Share Posted April 26, 2017 It's why Rob Ninkovich has been a fixture on their roster. Dude has made around $3m/year on average in Boston and been a highly-productive pain in the arse. wasnt he on PEDs though Who are their pass rushers now? I know Sheard and Chris Long are gone in FA. No more Chandler Jones. I'm blanking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokestradamus Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 wasnt he on PEDs though Who are their pass rushers now? I know Sheard and Chris Long are gone in FA. No more Chandler Jones. I'm blanking. Everyone in the NFL is on something Trey Flowers, Kony Ealy, Geneo Grissom and probably a couple guys that they draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted April 26, 2017 Author Share Posted April 26, 2017 Everyone in the NFL is on something Trey Flowers, Kony Ealy, Geneo Grissom and probably a couple guys that they draft. Flowers is good. Ealy fell out of favor in Carolina after that great SB. Know nothing about Grissom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokestradamus Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 Flowers is good. Ealy fell out of favor in Carolina after that great SB. Know nothing about Grissom. I guarantee that one of Ealy or Kareem Martin is a Bill in 2018. I need Kareem after Crichton fell through Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 (edited) Yes, he was hitting guys over the middle consistently. But unfortunately, it was the short middle, an area he's never had a problem with. In the deep and intermediate middle third - the area he's always thrown to very little - he continued to avoid it.Which makes the passing game easier to defend, because if a guy fakes outside and goes in you can bit on the outside fake and not get punished very often, whereas if he fakes inside, you're probably not going to fall for it or worry about it Thurm, you're like a parrot that responds at certain signals calling out the same songs despite the fact that they've been disproven time and again, but saying them, anyway. Taylor progressed in 2016 from 2015 in terms of both volume but especially efficiency at those throws over the middle of the field, including particularly the intermediate section. We've already established time and time and time and time again that the deep middle section of the field is and was never a big concern because it's not an area of the field the vast majority of NFL QBs go to very often. Despite your theories about the deep section of the field, the vast majority of NFL QBs, including the really good ones, throw the ball disproportionately to the sidelines more than they do to the middle of the field 20+ yards. Edited April 26, 2017 by transplantbillsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 He already knows this after watching the kid play in 11 NFL games?! I wonder what he would have said about Jerry Hughes after watching him play in HIS first 11 NFL games? Exactly and this scheme is a great fit for Shaq. I think he can have a big time impact on a consistent basis, especially if 99 and 95 are playing up to their talent level. He missed everything as a rookie and then near midseason was thrown into a dysfunctional defense and a scheme that lacked identity and communication. It's simply not fair to judge him from last year. He needs the right coaching but he has the talent to strive as a 43 end. Not only as a pass rusher but also against the run. This DLine just needs to play off each other and I think they get back in the conversation of best DL in the NFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted May 15, 2017 Author Share Posted May 15, 2017 Some post draft thoughts from Benoit he tweeted today: @andy_benoit Only reason #Bills would draft a CB in Round is if they LOVED the guy. CB not prioritized position in McDermott scheme. TreDavious White almost a guaranteed Day 1 starter for #Bills. Darby only other solid CB on roster. Would expect Ronald Darby to be better under McDermott. More zone coverage should cut down on penalties and getting beat deep. #Bills werent able to address DE in draft. (Cant get everything.) Shaq Lawson will get a lot of snaps for #Bills. Question is whether hes truly an edge-bender. Career likely to be made on technique. If Zay Jones pans out, #Bills once shaky WR corps could stabilize. Corey Brown No. 3, Holmes No. 4. Average group overall. Remember: when we say a position group is average, that doesnt mean bad. It means average. 2nd round rookie Dion Dawkins will get chance to start right away, but #Bills could live with Jordan Mills back at RT. The one left tackle who almost never shows up in my film notes is Cordy Glenn. Thats a good and bad thing (more good). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 Good stuff Yolo, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokestradamus Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 Elite tweeter, is Andy. @Andy_Benoit In terms of talent #Bills a bottom-10 roster. What happens to Doug Whaley if they go 6-10 this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 Elite tweeter, is Andy. @Andy_Benoit In terms of talent #Bills a bottom-10 roster. What happens to Doug Whaley if they go 6-10 this year? \ Ugh, oh. Doug, you are on notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 Elite tweeter, is Andy. @Andy_Benoit In terms of talent #Bills a bottom-10 roster. What happens to Doug Whaley if they go 6-10 this year? I wonder if Whaley will ever get another GM job in this league. \ Ugh, oh. Doug, you are on notice. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted May 15, 2017 Author Share Posted May 15, 2017 (edited) Elite tweeter, is Andy. @Andy_Benoit In terms of talent #Bills a bottom-10 roster. What happens to Doug Whaley if they go 6-10 this year? the replies to this tweet are some of the funniest I've read in a long time Wait here's another @andy_benoit Will be interesting to see how many snaps Patrick DiMarco gets for #Bills. May hinge on McCoys comfort w/ running behind a FB. Ummm did I imagine him running behind Felton for 2 years Edited May 15, 2017 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 the replies to this tweet are some of the funniest I've read in a long time Wait here's another @andy_benoit Will be interesting to see how many snaps Patrick DiMarco gets for #Bills. May hinge on McCoys comfort w/ running behind a FB. Ummm did I imagine him running behind Felton for 2 years This guy gets paid for writing this garbage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted May 15, 2017 Author Share Posted May 15, 2017 This guy gets paid for writing this garbage?he does have some good thoughts usually ... but I think at this point I'm seriously questioning his credibility! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokestradamus Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 the replies to this tweet are some of the funniest I've read in a long time Some of them are quite funny. I still don't get this mocking Spongebob fad though I'll remember this for a few of the fans I've seen having a pop at Andy when they go "who is #75?" in the first preseason game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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