Sal M: no QB in first.

[3rdand12]

I think this was Sal C, who has a little insight and idea about football. This is nothing more than a guy who is probably a poster here.

No. Sal knows his stuff. He can be biased but he aint no fool. Rochester D and C i can read every day

[Foxx]

I had to dig it up, but here's a post I wrote that got buried in another thread, but basically lays out why spinning the wheels and re-drafting positions is the main reason why we've been so mediocre:

 

 

 

 

I will be pretty disappointed if we draft a CB. This has nothing to do with whether or not it is a current need. Here's how I look at it...

 

We've created a need at CB by our own poor roster management dating back to the early 2000's. Similar to how we've misunderstood the value of the RB position, the Bills have created and filled their own holes in the secondary...

 

In 1999 we drafted Winfield in the first round to fill the hole at DB.

In 2001 we drafted Clements in the first round and had a 1-2 tandem in Winfield/Clements.

In 2003 we let Winfield go

In 2006 we let Clements go

...

 

We use UFA Jabari Greer and 4th RD McGee to plug in these holes eventually, but lose Greer to FA, draft Whitner and begin a new cycle at the position...

...

 

In 2008 we draft McKelvin in the first.

In 2012 we draft Gilmore in the first.

In 2015 we draft Darby with our first pick (2nd round).

In 2016 we get rid of Mckelvin

In 2017 we get rid of Gilmore

 

As much as this is a condemnation of the free agent era, it's a frustrating look at how many times we have created and filled holes due to poor roster management. If the argument is that GIlmore is too expensive, well then it's a terrible investment of a first round pick. All the CBs (Winfield, Clements, Gilmore, Whitner and even McKelvin to an extent) were let go to the market because they were too expensive. We continually fall for this trick, and then panic when it's time to pony up. Winfield was probably the only player worth the big contract, and when you look back, the only recurring trend in this ineptitude is that we've missed the playoffs.

 

Yes, other teams have let a lot of quality starters walk because they were too expensive. The Patriots are pretty famous for drafting a player and not resigning him, but I'll argue that for us, these are mostly top 10 picks we're talking about here, not last in the first round. These are positions of value in the draft board that are sure-thing starters...and yet we seem to cyclically release and draft DB's anyways.

 

I've brought this up over the years and I'm often looked at as not understanding how the team is being built. Well, at the 17 year mark all I can do is throw my hands in the air and wonder how wrong have I been?

 

If you're going to let Gilmore go, fine. I don't have a problem with it, really, but you need to STOP the cycle there. You need to use the back half of the draft and bring on depth players to compete for the position. You cannot afford to simply replace with another first round pick because in 4-5 years (less if you count Darby) it will just happen again.

 

To me, it's simple...if you're going to keep getting these high draft picks you NEED to gamble on the game changer, the QB. If you try and fill a position of need, you're going to soon release that player and be right back in the same spot in a few years. If you hit on a QB, the decision is easy. You keep him, you pay him, etc. Every year we go down this same road, every year we scratch our heads at how all these other teams are always in it while we're out. You can't solve ANY problem until you solve the QB problem.

 

TLDR: Don't draft a CB. It's a waste and we'll just let him go in 4-5 years like we've done several times during the drought. Draft a QB. Even if it's a swing and a miss it's a better value.

 

i don't have the time right now to go into detail, but there are quite a few flaws with the logic in this post.

Edited April 23, 2017 by Foxx

[BillsFan17]

That's the other problem. I have no faith in Whaley when it comes to the draft and QBs.

 

Yet, every year everyone wants to wait until the next draft class and give the guy grief for one bust, which however you wanna slice it he wasn't the GM when choice was made.

 

Yes, whaley composed the board and in reality manuel had the highest ceiling in his class, no one is saying Nix had to take him in the first.

 

However, Whaley has adhered to his coaches request for QBs. From getting Orton for Marrone, Taylor for Rex, and reworking Taylor to retain him for McDermott.

 

So maybe we fault him for listening to much to his coaches, but I don't think we should totally avoid taking a QB because fans don't trust Whaley.

[3rdand12]

While I agree none of the QBs are worthy of a top ten pick...

 

I don't fully agree with why Sal is saying to avoid the position... you can't consistently point out past misses as a reason to avoid addressing the position.

 

Not for nothing the new CBA has allowed teams to move on from a first round bust pretty quickly.

 

Furthermore, how can you point out the Manuel miss and ignore the fact you are pumping up his replacement that was obtained while Manuel was under contract. Proving missing on a QB isn't as detrimental as it once was.

 

I agree we need more help on the roster, but you cant ignore the elephant in the room and hope it corrects it self.

Not at ten perhaps, but Bills know they need to keep after it.

I Hope !

[JM2009]

this is how it works.

 

evidence is factual. what happens in reality are facts. what columnists speculate upon to sell newspapers and get clicks in cyberspace, are not necessarily fact nor any facsimile of what the truth is. what happens then, is that this speculation gets picked up by another columnist and another and another and.... before you know it, it is what actually happened, never mind the fact that it actually didn't.

 

thinking for oneself includes, but is not limited to... observing the facts on the ground and then drawing ones own conclusions. it helps if the conclusions drawn are not logical leaps and are based in what reality says might have actually happened.

 

your a Bills fan and you've never read anything by the Buffalo media...

me thinks your pulling my leg...

or something...

Please tell us all the facts on why Whaley is doing a good job and should be retained. The media and most of the fans are negative on the guy because the facts prove he is not doing a good enough job at all. The local and national media are heavily critical of him because the results speak for themselves.

[xRUSHx]

I wonder if Sal will also be let go when Whaley, McD and Tyrod are put to the curb in 2019.

 

Perfect year to draft a top talent at QB to sit behind Tyrod year one. Waiting will equal the same Chan/Fitz fail of being hard headed thinking your all set at QB so wait and then boom mid season your crying in your Thad Lewis soup.

[3rdand12]

Yet, every year everyone wants to wait until the next draft class and give the guy grief for one bust, which however you wanna slice it he wasn't the GM when choice was made.

 

Yes, whaley composed the board and in reality manuel had the highest ceiling in his class, no one is saying Nix had to take him in the first.

 

However, Whaley has adhered to his coaches request for QBs. From getting Orton for Marrone, Taylor for Rex, and reworking Taylor to retain him for McDermott.

 

So maybe we fault him for listening to much to his coaches, but I don't think we should totally avoid taking a QB because fans don't trust Whaley.

I suspect Bills know they need one sooner or later.

 

Let the EJM pick be a lesson about waiting too long

[JM2009]

I wonder if Sal will also be let go when Whaley, McD and Tyrod are put to the curb in 2019.

 

Perfect year to draft a top talent at QB to sit behind Tyrod year one. Waiting will equal the same Chan/Fitz fail of being hard headed thinking your all set at QB so wait and then boom mid season your crying in your Thad Lewis soup.

No one said not to take a QB in a later round. And Sal M is one of the harshest critics of OBD.

[dwight in philly]

as bill tobin said in one of the greatest interviews i have ever seen , when discussing kiper's criticism of him.. "the guy who cuts the grass next door" (or something very close to that) knows as much as mel kiper.. my point.. who knows..

[xRUSHx]

Please tell us all the facts on why Whaley is doing a good job and should be retained. The media and most of the fans are negative on the guy because the facts prove he is not doing a good enough job at all. The local and national media are heavily critical of him because the results speak for themselves.

Secretly I think you agree Tyrod will fail but know the best way to ditch Whaley is to keep Tyrod on his pedestal to fail hard.

[3rdand12]

I wonder if Sal will also be let go when Whaley, McD and Tyrod are put to the curb in 2019.

 

Perfect year to draft a top talent at QB to sit behind Tyrod year one. Waiting will equal the same Chan/Fitz fail of being hard headed thinking your all set at QB so wait and then boom mid season your crying in your Thad Lewis soup.

He was so misunderstood

[JM2009]

I suspect Bills know they need one sooner or later.

 

Let the EJM pick be a lesson about waiting too long

It should also be a lesson in not picking a project pick in the first round.

[Roundybout]

He was so misunderstood

 

Thaddeus Lewis*

Edited April 23, 2017 by GhostsofBillsPast

[JM2009]

Secretly I think you agree Tyrod will fail but know the best way to ditch Whaley is to keep Tyrod on his pedestal to fail hard.

Nope. I think Taylor is one of the bright spots on this roster, at least for the short term. Whaley didn't want Taylor. That alone should tell you something.

[3rdand12]

It should also be a lesson in not picking a project pick in the first round.

Hey they added picks !

and this just in, poor year for QBs. they should have picked one the year before and the year before that

 

Thaddeus Lewis*

No respect either.

[xRUSHx]

No one said not to take a QB in a later round. And Sal M is one of the harshest critics of OBD.

Oh so take another late rounder, got it. Late rounders work so well for this team, I wonder what Levi Brown is up to these days.

Hey they added picks !

and this just in, poor year for QBs. they should have picked one the year before and the year before that

 

No respect either.

But next year's class is better then next year they won't be so good so the next year's class, maybe someday we can go for one but not this one because next year's class.

Edited April 23, 2017 by xRUSHx

[JM2009]

Oh so take another late rounder, got it. Late rounders work so well for this team, I wonder what Levi Brown is up to these days.

 

But next year's class is better then next year they won't be so good so the next year's class, maybe someday we can go for one but not this one because next year's class.

Take one in the third round. maybe even the second.

[xRUSHx]

Nope. I think Taylor is one of the bright spots on this roster, at least for the short term. Whaley didn't want Taylor. That alone should tell you something.

Your funny, good idea to get rid of Whaley I like it. Go Bills, see ya in 2019 when it all blows up.

Take one in the third round. maybe even the second.

Top 4 will be gone, Whaley always waits too long. If one isn't taken right away I see no use in bothering to try with another Brown prospect to bag groceries within 3 years. I agree Whaley don't have a clue rebuild from the GM down in 2019, it will be a long 2 years.

It should also be a lesson in not picking a project pick in the first round.

Best way to land a top prospect is to take one of the top prospects from said class. Edited April 23, 2017 by xRUSHx

[stuvian]

there is talk that the Jags may also go QB. You can't get cute waiting for QBs to pass unnoticed into round 2

[oldmanfan]

Your funny, good idea to get rid of Whaley I like it. Go Bills, see ya in 2019 when it all blows up.

Top 4 will be gone, Whaley always waits too long. If one isn't taken right away I see no use in bothering to try with another Brown prospect to bag groceries within 3 years. I agree Whaley don't have a clue rebuild from the GM down in 2019, it will be a long 2 years.

Moving up to take a questionable QB fails way more than it succeeds. And teams will be dumb and move ahead of us to do so again this year. Let them.