DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 Carr was not a first round pick bingo! NFL Draft: 2014 / Round: 2 / Pick: 36 he didn't actually post he was, yet posted "You get Derek Carr and QB's like him in the draft" and I agree. but you could get your QB in the 2nd (see DC) round and as many have posted, go with bpa at 10 where you're likely going see him on the field this season while the possible QB prospect can be groomed for a season or two? we'll know in 4 days... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fridge Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 I keep hearing this argement brought up like it is actually a common thing to find these type of players So what happens if we take a QB at 10.....and he ends up being no better then what we have. Are you really that much in favor of reaching? Which of our 1st round picks have been worth it? Maybe Dareus? What's the point of taking another McKelvin or Whitner? You need a QB. Who cares about drafting another Gilmore only to bail on him when his contract is up?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2009 Posted April 23, 2017 Author Share Posted April 23, 2017 What was your Draft record when you were a GM? So the fanbase cannot be critical of an organization that has missed the playoffs 17 years straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodrigo Borgia Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 So the fanbase cannot be critical of an organization that has missed the playoffs 17 years straight. Please answer the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 Rex Ryan, as much as he failed at the defensive side of the ball, brought Taylor in and pushed for him. Not Whaley. Whaley pushed EJ right up till the end and wanted Taylor off the roster. The new staff wanted Taylor, and again not Whaley. So Whaley handed Rex the #4 defense and all the bad the defense did is on Whaley. Whaley was the GM who signed Taylor and a lot of the offense players, including the amazing McCoy trade and RI, but he gets no credit for the offenses' success. Makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fridge Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 What was your Draft record when you were a GM? Why even sign up for an account here? If someone criticizes your spending habits would you respond with, "well how did you spend my money when you were me?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonborn10 Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 Yes, I think all of this has been hashed out in the Tyrod Highlights thread. My biggest fear is we will be having the same conversation next off-season. It's a nightmare and we can't wake up from it! Let' assume you are right about TT. It still doesn't mean the correct course of action is QB at #10. They can add a QB by dropping back in the first or wit until the second round. If they can not move down take a day 1 starter - Howard, WR, LB, or DB. These will all improve the team this year. If they can move out of #10, then I am all for taking a QB later. My choice would be Kizer. He is intelligent and young. He can sit for two years and still be young. I would take him in the twenties after a trade down with Houston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2009 Posted April 23, 2017 Author Share Posted April 23, 2017 Please answer the question. I did. What a ridiculous question. Another one who likes the job Whaley has done. Some of us actually want a competitive team that makes the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan17 Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 (edited) While I agree none of the QBs are worthy of a top ten pick... I don't fully agree with why Sal is saying to avoid the position... you can't consistently point out past misses as a reason to avoid addressing the position. Not for nothing the new CBA has allowed teams to move on from a first round bust pretty quickly. Furthermore, how can you point out the Manuel miss and ignore the fact you are pumping up his replacement that was obtained while Manuel was under contract. Proving missing on a QB isn't as detrimental as it once was. I agree we need more help on the roster, but you cant ignore the elephant in the room and hope it corrects it self. Edited April 23, 2017 by BillsFan17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2009 Posted April 23, 2017 Author Share Posted April 23, 2017 So Whaley handed Rex the #4 defense and all the bad the defense did is on Whaley. Whaley was the GM who signed Taylor and a lot of the offense players, including the amazing McCoy trade and RI, but he gets no credit for the offenses' success. Makes sense. That amazing McCoy trade fell into his lap. He's terrible with the cap. Lost Woods and MG for the offense. Two key parts. This is called spinning wheels. Wasted money on Harvin and Bush in 2016. His body of work is below average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 So Whaley handed Rex the #4 defense and all the bad the defense did is on Whaley. Whaley was the GM who signed Taylor and a lot of the offense players, including the amazing McCoy trade and RI, but he gets no credit for the offenses' success. Makes sense. Jm is a victim of the sports press. they create stories that have no basis in fact and a certain segment buys into whatever they say, lock, stock and barrel. these people will defend till the death what the mainstreammorons say. only upon unequivocal proof, will they be shocked back to reality and realize they were misled. there is much to be said for thinking for oneself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fridge Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 That amazing McCoy trade fell into his lap. He's terrible with the cap. Lost Woods and MG for the offense. Two key parts. This is called spinning wheels. Wasted money on Harvin and Bush in 2016. His body of work is below average. I'm starting pile on a bit with the Whaley hate. Obviously all of these errors pale in comparison to hiring Rex, or standing idly by while the President/Owner hire Rex, and then re-hauling the defense you spent so hard to build up. Whaley is the man with no plan. That much is evident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundybout Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 (edited) That amazing McCoy trade fell into his lap. He's terrible with the cap. Lost Woods and MG for the offense. Two key parts. This is called spinning wheels. Wasted money on Harvin and Bush in 2016. His body of work is below average. If we paid Woods 8 mill, people would complain we overpaid him for a WR2 spot, and you seriously cannot call Mr. Glass Incarnate a "key part" of the Bills' offense. Edited April 23, 2017 by GhostsofBillsPast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2009 Posted April 23, 2017 Author Share Posted April 23, 2017 Jm is a victim of the sports press. they create stories that have no basis in fact and a certain segment buys into whatever they say, lock, stock and barrel. these people will defend till the death what the mainstreammorons say. only upon unequivocal proof, will they be shocked back to reality and realize they were misled. there is much to be said for thinking for oneself. Sounds great when you yourself cannot find any evidence outside your own opinion on why Whaley is a good GM. I like it when I can back up my opinion with others from around the sports media, because if gives it more credibility. And the results speak for themselves anyways. Whaley is not a good GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fridge Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 Jm is a victim of the sports press. they create stories that have no basis in fact and a certain segment buys into whatever they say, lock, stock and barrel. these people will defend till the death what the mainstreammorons say. only upon unequivocal proof, will they be shocked back to reality and realize they were misled. there is much to be said for thinking for oneself. Really? I never read anything by the Buffalo media and I agree with JM. We're too far along and seem to be treading water for Whaley to continually get my pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2009 Posted April 23, 2017 Author Share Posted April 23, 2017 If we paid Woods 8 mill, people would complain we overpaid him for a WR2 spot, and you seriously cannot call Mr. Glass Incarnate a "key part" of the Bills' offense. Do we have a better number two WR on the roster right now than Woods-nope. A better backup RB than MG-nope. Now the Bills have to use draft picks on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundybout Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 Do we have a better number two WR on the roster right now than Woods-nope. A better backup RB than MG-nope. Now the Bills have to use draft picks on them. We still have time to match Gilly's offer sheet, but even if we don't Whaley seems to have a knack for getting late round RB steals (KW, JW). WR is also deep this draft. Take Juju Smith-Schuster in the second and you're good to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 That amazing McCoy trade fell into his lap. He's terrible with the cap. Lost Woods and MG for the offense. Two key parts. This is called spinning wheels. Wasted money on Harvin and Bush in 2016. His body of work is below average. ok, your argument was lost as soon as you called Marquis Goodwin a key part of the offense. Really? He had one, ONE average season where he stayed even remotely healthy, but he was a "key" part of the offense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fridge Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 Do we have a better number two WR on the roster right now than Woods-nope. A better backup RB than MG-nope. Now the Bills have to use draft picks on them. I had to dig it up, but here's a post I wrote that got buried in another thread, but basically lays out why spinning the wheels and re-drafting positions is the main reason why we've been so mediocre: I will be pretty disappointed if we draft a CB. This has nothing to do with whether or not it is a current need. Here's how I look at it... We've created a need at CB by our own poor roster management dating back to the early 2000's. Similar to how we've misunderstood the value of the RB position, the Bills have created and filled their own holes in the secondary... In 1999 we drafted Winfield in the first round to fill the hole at DB. In 2001 we drafted Clements in the first round and had a 1-2 tandem in Winfield/Clements. In 2003 we let Winfield go In 2006 we let Clements go ... We use UFA Jabari Greer and 4th RD McGee to plug in these holes eventually, but lose Greer to FA, draft Whitner and begin a new cycle at the position... ... In 2008 we draft McKelvin in the first. In 2012 we draft Gilmore in the first. In 2015 we draft Darby with our first pick (2nd round). In 2016 we get rid of Mckelvin In 2017 we get rid of Gilmore As much as this is a condemnation of the free agent era, it's a frustrating look at how many times we have created and filled holes due to poor roster management. If the argument is that GIlmore is too expensive, well then it's a terrible investment of a first round pick. All the CBs (Winfield, Clements, Gilmore, Whitner and even McKelvin to an extent) were let go to the market because they were too expensive. We continually fall for this trick, and then panic when it's time to pony up. Winfield was probably the only player worth the big contract, and when you look back, the only recurring trend in this ineptitude is that we've missed the playoffs. Yes, other teams have let a lot of quality starters walk because they were too expensive. The Patriots are pretty famous for drafting a player and not resigning him, but I'll argue that for us, these are mostly top 10 picks we're talking about here, not last in the first round. These are positions of value in the draft board that are sure-thing starters...and yet we seem to cyclically release and draft DB's anyways. I've brought this up over the years and I'm often looked at as not understanding how the team is being built. Well, at the 17 year mark all I can do is throw my hands in the air and wonder how wrong have I been? If you're going to let Gilmore go, fine. I don't have a problem with it, really, but you need to STOP the cycle there. You need to use the back half of the draft and bring on depth players to compete for the position. You cannot afford to simply replace with another first round pick because in 4-5 years (less if you count Darby) it will just happen again. To me, it's simple...if you're going to keep getting these high draft picks you NEED to gamble on the game changer, the QB. If you try and fill a position of need, you're going to soon release that player and be right back in the same spot in a few years. If you hit on a QB, the decision is easy. You keep him, you pay him, etc. Every year we go down this same road, every year we scratch our heads at how all these other teams are always in it while we're out. You can't solve ANY problem until you solve the QB problem. TLDR: Don't draft a CB. It's a waste and we'll just let him go in 4-5 years like we've done several times during the drought. Draft a QB. Even if it's a swing and a miss it's a better value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 Which of our 1st round picks have been worth it? Maybe Dareus? What's the point of taking another McKelvin or Whitner? You need a QB. Who cares about drafting another Gilmore only to bail on him when his contract is up?? Gilmore is a very bad example.....provided us quality play for what....4 years? I am talking about tt and c. jones.....what if the qb you select (when most feel this is a average draft) is no better then these 2 players? It absolutely COULD happen Now you have just passed up on (possibly) A LB that makes your D work A TE that has been favorable compared to Gronk A starting corner For a player that may NEVER actually unseat what we have...... Im not saying its gonna happen....I am saying that scenario is just as believable as the one your portraying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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