OldTimeAFLGuy Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 i was actually wondering about this. if the offense is truly designed to suit his strengths, there is no reason he can't have a "breakout" season. the man does have strengths, and if his weaknesses are minimized, who knows? ...as far as I'm concerned after last year's Train Wrecks debacle, 2017 is his ROOKIE year....only breakout in 2016 was a rash from the Head Clown.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 I hope so and maybe it was the injury, but he really didn't seem that explosive to me. But he could still have a solid to good career if he is just a high motor guy. My breakout is Preston Brown. Had a really good rookie year and then Rex came. This defense will fit him much better and he will be looked as a good player again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 Lol!! Are you saying Ragland can't play effectively in a 4-3/nickel base???And let's be real...it cost us ONE 4TH round pick! It cost 2 4th rounders. Our first in in 2016 and one in 2017. It remains to be seen. That wasn't what he was drafted to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffAlone Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 It cost 2 4th rounders. Our first in in 2016 and one in 2017. It remains to be seen. That wasn't what he was drafted to play. yes,it remains to be seen. Let's not forget he ran a 4.63 at his pro day.and has all the intangibles to be a good Mike in ANY defense. He can do most things exceptionally well,and excels at diagnosing plays and delivering knockout hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 It cost 2 4th rounders. Our first in in 2016 and one in 2017. It remains to be seen. That wasn't what he was drafted to play. ...ALWAYS a crap shoot.....what did Dimitrof give up to grab Julio?...it worked.....what did Dopey Boy Danny Snyder give up to grab RG II 1/4?....it didn't (Danny had no business in the mix anyway)....remember the Herschel Walker bonanza?.....or how about Ditka's move for Puff Daddy Williams?......yet you want to focus on ONE damn pick and what it cost because the draft & FA are an exact science.....look big picture historically unless you think Pegula should can Whaley tomorrow because of this egregious cost....I heard Grigson, Balke, Ireland and Vinnie Ceralo are looking for GM work...take your pick... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 Lawson and Ragland could be major difference makers this year. It's almost like having them amongst the new draft picks coming in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 yes,it remains to be seen. Let's not forget he ran a 4.63 at his pro day.and has all the intangibles to be a good Mike in ANY defense. He can do most things exceptionally well,and excels at diagnosing plays and delivering knockout hits. Except learn a college playbook. ...ALWAYS a crap shoot.....what did Dimitrof give up to grab Julio?...it worked.....what did Dopey Boy Danny Snyder give up to grab RG II 1/4?....it didn't (Danny had no business in the mix anyway)....remember the Herschel Walker bonanza?.....or how about Ditka's move for Puff Daddy Williams?......yet you want to focus on ONE damn pick and what it cost because the draft & FA are an exact science.....look big picture historically unless you think Pegula should can Whaley tomorrow because of this egregious cost....I heard Grigson, Balke, Ireland and Vinnie Ceralo are looking for GM work...take your pick... That Atlanta team was a piece away though. They had their QB. RG3 had one of the best rookie years a QB has ever had. He should've worked out. I'm not focusing on one pick, I'm using it to illustrate a point and a pattern. If you think I think DW sucks because of just one pick or trade, you aren't paying attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 I don't want to call that as weak but it kind of is. The guy was a 1st round pick who missed the offseason and the 1st half of the season. He was a potential top 10 pick just a year ago. Of course we should see a big uptick in his production. That is so obvious!! Way to go out on a limb!!! I will take a stab at it and say that the breakout player is Sammy Watkins. I say this year he ascends to a top 5 WR and finishes the year with over 90 catches, 1400 yards and 10+ TDs. If that doesn't count because he is already good, I will go with Kevon Seymour. I think the Watkins pick may be "obvious" as well....if he can stay healthy. I like the Seymour pick and that wouldn't surprise me at all as our breakout player. I hope so and maybe it was the injury, but he really didn't seem that explosive to me. But he could still have a solid to good career if he is just a high motor guy. My breakout is Preston Brown. Had a really good rookie year and then Rex came. This defense will fit him much better and he will be looked as a good player again. That's a good point. His regression with Rex was puzzling. He had a much better rookie year than I anticipated and could even cover. Then Rex, and he regressed in all areas, esp. coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 I think the Watkins pick may be "obvious" as well....if he can stay healthy. I like the Seymour pick and that wouldn't surprise me at all as our breakout player. That's a good point. His regression with Rex was puzzling. He had a much better rookie year than I anticipated and could even cover. Then Rex, and he regressed in all areas, esp. coverage. made him think too much.....which took away from his reaction time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 I think the Watkins pick may be "obvious" as well....if he can stay healthy. I like the Seymour pick and that wouldn't surprise me at all as our breakout player. That's a good point. His regression with Rex was puzzling. He had a much better rookie year than I anticipated and could even cover. Then Rex, and he regressed in all areas, esp. coverage. Almost every defensive player regressed under Rex and his system. Good times! I'm not sure about SM as a head coach but I have zero doubts of seeing an improved defense. made him think too much.....which took away from his reaction time And this is what pissed me off so much about Rex. He made things way more complicated that they needed to be. He had one of the best d lines in the NFL and didn't need to trick teams. He would run these crazy insane blitzes that Brady would laugh at and complete easy passes where we blitzed. I'd love to have a beer(S) with Rex but I never want him near a football team I care about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 Jonathan Williams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan17 Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 Lawson in ways, reminds me of Aaron Schobel. Nothing fancy, just straight up power. I don't think we will ever see a double digit sack total from Shaq, but he'll be like what Vernon is to the Giants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffAlone Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 Except learn a college playbook. Good Grief lmfao That Atlanta team was a piece away though. They had their QB. RG3 had one of the best rookie years a QB has ever had. He should've worked out. I'm not focusing on one pick, I'm using it to illustrate a point and a pattern. If you think I think DW sucks because of just one pick or trade, you aren't paying attention. we gotcha,you dislike Whaley.This thread was about a breakout player,not the FO moves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 we gotcha,you dislike Whaley.This thread was about a breakout player,not the FO moves That's why we were talking about Ragland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy McFiddish Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 Lawson and Ragland could be major difference makers this year. It's almost like having them amongst the new draft picks coming in. These two really have me excited for this season, with Leslie running the D now especially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YattaOkasan Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 As, presumably, so did others on the Clemson front......but he was still consistently the last one off the ball. I didn't see those plays where he was off the ball with good speed........and there was plenty of video. I may be misremembering but i thought that was a responsibility only for him. He definitely gets off the ball on the highlight of him versus Ronnie Stanley (the tackle to prevent a sack). Also, I remember him scoring well for explosiveness at the combine. However, I did see some plays that were weird cause he was still in his stance when others were getting upfield (don't know wtf was going on with those). Maybe its a snap timing thing (seems like that could be taught more than other things). Overall I still like the pick because its an impact position and a guy with a high ceiling and high floor. I don't think 8 sacks would be unreasonable this year, but i wouldn't call it a break out either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuvian Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 breakout or bust for Shaq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 Ill say Reggie Ragland, drops a little weight, is a little quicker and efficient "in space" on his zone drops and in man coverage from the ILB spot and his ability to diagnose plays, stop the run and run the defense will be a welcome addition to the defense, he'll stay on the field on all 3 downs and in sub packages. Projected: 130+ tackles, 15 TFL's, 3 FF, 2 INT's. p.s. Bills fans will praise Whaley's foresight in trading a 2017 4th round pick to move up in the 2016 draft to acquire him, as in hindsight its a wonderful move again... Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't he give up a pick to move up to draft Ragland that could have been used for Prescott who he favored over Cardale? I'm not anti-Ragland because I believe that he can be a good player for us. However, it seems to me that giving up a pick to move up for a player that might have been there without trading up at the expense of finally getting a good qb prospect on board was a costly deal for us. As you noted hindsight is wonderful in making easy after the fact judgments. But the real challenge is playing things smartly in real time and not losing opportunities that exist in real time. The Bills have not had a legitimate franchise qb for over 20 years. The trade up deal was a lost opportunity to acquire a good qb prospect for this franchise and also for Whaley who is in a precarious position. Sometimes when you try to outsmart others the person you outsmart is yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't he give up a pick to move up to draft Ragland that could have been used for Prescott who he favored over Cardale? I'm not anti-Ragland because I believe that he can be a good player for us. However, it seems to me that giving up a pick to move up for a player that might have been there without trading up at the expense of finally getting a good qb prospect on board was a costly deal for us. As you noted hindsight is wonderful in making easy after the fact judgments. But the real challenge is playing things smartly in real time and not losing opportunities that exist in real time. The Bills have not had a legitimate franchise qb for over 20 years. The trade up deal was a lost opportunity to acquire a good qb prospect for this franchise and also for Whaley who is in a precarious position. Sometimes when you try to outsmart others the person you outsmart is yourself. I think it is important to note that Dak ALMOST lasted until that pick we took C. Jones with. The draft is a gamble....and had Dak lasted to that pick I think we would have selected him there (jmo) That is not to say I dont think in the end it will have definately turned out badly - I am a big fan of Reggie Ragland....people use the turn "throw back" like its some kind of derogatory term nowadays which I just dont understand....I was a big fan of Chris Spielman as well who was just one of those no nonsense knock the stuffing out of you made everyone around him play better by example run stuffing guys.......Ragland is like that except he covers better in short zones AND he has great size......if Ragland pans out it will be WELL WORTH the trade up.....if Lawson AND Ragland pan out Whaley comes out looking like a rose......if another guy pans out along with them (Like...for instance Kevin Seymore) then WHaley looks like GM of the year. - If C. Jones turns out to be nothing more then a career backup....that is going to be ok to because it was a 4th round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonborn10 Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 My worry is he played almost exclusively hand on the ground nickel four down lineman DE last year. So it is hard for me to just agree switching from OLB to DE will make that much difference. He looked terribly slow off the ball last year. I do not recall a single play he made where he showed any spectacular athleticism. However Rex messed everything up and Mario was proven correct. Hopefully Shaq will be able to play faster and attack. So far he is much closer to Erik Flowers than he is Schobel or even Phil Hansen. I hope so and maybe it was the injury, but he really didn't seem that explosive to me. But he could still have a solid to good career if he is just a high motor guy. My breakout is Preston Brown. Had a really good rookie year and then Rex came. This defense will fit him much better and he will be looked as a good player again. I hope so. I think Whaley and McDermott think so too. That is why there is no rush to bring back Z. Brown. And if they think P. Brown and Ragland are legit, then it is WR, DB, S, QB, TE in the draft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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