MMQB: why Kaepernick and RGIII not on NFL rosters

[boyst]

Is Bridgewater out for this upcoming season?

last I saw expected to start pup. Could play mid season.

[NoSaint]

Joe Thomas tweet says it all:

My thoughts re: @Kaepernick7? Teams don't currently view him as a starting QB, and NFL teams accept ZERO distractions from their backup QBs.

https://mobile.twitter.com/joethomas73/status/845636712915238913?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.yardbarker.com%2Fnfl%2Farticles%2Fbrowns_pro_bowler_joe_thomas_has_interesting_take_on_colin_kaepernick%2Fs1_12680_23555278

Geno has had his distractions (see broken jaw fighting with a teammate) or Ryan mallet (his general existence).

 

I think the biggest thing is finding the right fit (read: paycheck size and upward mobility) to have both sides happy. He's obviously made that harder but if he finds himself out of the league I think that is a bigger mark on the NFL than him.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Back to the London debacle.

2015 versus 2016

 

Yes TT got the win against the Jags

 

Let me remind you not by much.

 

In actuality the defense stopped the Jags last drives whereas a phantom PI cost the Bills the game.

 

Calling the failed backup a guaranteed loss and comparing the results of both Jags games doesn't say much for Taylor.

Edited March 26, 2017 by ShadyBillsFan

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

Back to the London debacle.

2015 versus 2016

 

Yes TT got the win against the Jags

 

Let me remind you not by much.

 

In actuality the defense stopped the Jags last drives whereas a phantom PI cost the Bills the game.

 

Calling the failed backup a guaranteed loss and comparing the results of both Jags games doesn't say much for Taylor.

 

Jags defense in 2016 was much better than in 2015. Especially in YPG.

 

YPG 2016 ranked 6th 2015 ranked 24th

PPG 2016 ranked 24th 2015 ranked 31st

 

It's been a long time, if ever, since EJ has put up a good game against any team.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

Jags defense in 2016 was much better than in 2015. Especially in YPG.

 

YPG 2016 ranked 6th 2015 ranked 24th

PPG 2016 ranked 24th 2015 ranked 31st

 

It's been a long time, if ever, since EJ has put up a good game against any team.

 

 

Yeah the Jags main issue on D in 2016 was dealing with their offenses turnovers..........Bortles and co coughed it up 29 times....... tied for 4th most in the NFL..........hence the low yardage and disproportinately high PPG.

 

When people say that Tyrod Taylor can be accurately evaluated without considering the impact of his own D and ST's struggles.........imagine how bad the Bills D would have been if Tyrod and his O weren't turning the ball over at an NFL record low rate prior to his benching in the finale.

 

There was a ton of pressure on Taylor to not make a mistake opposite that 26th ranked defense in DVOA and that lead to a whole lotta' cautious play in 2016.

 

Edited March 26, 2017 by #BADOL

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

Jags defense in 2016 was much better than in 2015. Especially in YPG.

 

YPG 2016 ranked 6th 2015 ranked 24th

PPG 2016 ranked 24th 2015 ranked 31st

 

It's been a long time, if ever, since EJ has put up a good game against any team.

I've heard this before. Yet the 6th ranked Jags had 3 whole wins in 2016.

 

If you want to play that card. Whats the excuse for the Raiders 24th ranked passing defense?

Miami has the 29th ranked D in total yards 15th in passing 30 against the run

KC has the 24th ranked D in total yards 18th in passing 26 against the run

 

Easy wins right?

My point is not in support of EJ, but that a Taylor run offense should be better than it has been.

 

If you want to trash EJ feel free but you should compare the common teams from 2015 and 2016 and look at the stats as well as the end results.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

I've heard this before. Yet the 6th ranked Jags had 3 whole wins in 2016.

 

If you want to play that card. Whats the excuse for the Raiders 24th ranked passing defense?

Miami has the 29th ranked D in total yards 15th in passing 30 against the run

KC has the 24th ranked D in total yards 18th in passing 26 against the run

 

Easy wins right?

My point is not in support of EJ, but that a Taylor run offense should be better than it has been.

 

If you want to trash EJ feel free but you should compare the common teams from 2015 and 2016 and look at the stats as well as the end results.

 

It's a waste of my time to argue with someone who doesn't realize Taylor is measurably much better than EJ could ever be in 2015, 2016 or whatever year you want to use. Pointing to one team that EJ lost to in 2015 and then pointing to that same team in 2016 that Taylor barely beat and saying "see Taylor wasn't very good or under achieved" seems flawed at best.

 

Why did the Jags only have three wins? Because they are still a very flawed team. Their defense was better, 6th ranked, but not great. They weren't a Houston or Seattle type defense. And the offense turned the ball over way too many times as was already noted.

[BillsFan130]

Stephen A. Smith would say that Kaepernick is being blacklisted. I would simply say that he's an average quarterback, wanting more than average money, that poses the threat of being more of a distraction than a benefit to any team that he would sign with. As for his trip to the Superbowl, he can thank then #2 defense in the NFL. Many average QB's that will never sniff the HOF have gone to the Superbowl and some have won it by virtue of their defense. Kaepernick's situation is really most similar to Vick when he got out of jail. Both flashed talent early in their career. Vick had a challenge finding a starting role again after his off the field issues, with many teams simply taking a pass on him due to the possibility of being a detriment to the team. The NFL is, after all, a business and a big one at that. Ignoring the business end of a snake will only get you bit.

Very generous to say Kaep is an average QB. He is not an NFL starter in my eyes, and the reason he was good early in his career was because defences never really knew how to defend him because he was unique. Once they studied lots of game tape, it was very easy to shut him down

[DasNootz]

Kaep only works as a Bills backup if we think this is a "win now" team. Ideally you want your backup to have a similar skill set as your starter so the transition isn't catastrophic in the event of an injury. That said, if you think having a QB with pocket skills is a necessity, do you really want both guys in front of your "development project" to share similar bad habits. If Tyrod is a place holder, I'd rather have a backup that can help develop Cardale or (QB to be drafted).

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

Very generous to say Kaep is an average QB. He is not an NFL starter in my eyes, and the reason he was good early in his career was because defences never really knew how to defend him because he was unique. Once they studied lots of game tape, it was very easy to shut him down

 

I think it depends on how wide a net you cast for average. I forget who said it, but I think it was Sherman maybe, I know blasphemy to use his name around here. But basically you have like 8 elite QBs, then 4 or 5 guys on the verge of elite. Then a couple dozen guys who are basically interchangeable. There will definitely be some bad starting QBs next year. Guys who are certainly no better than Kaepernick.

[Chuck Wagon]

Very generous to say Kaep is an average QB. He is not an NFL starter in my eyes, and the reason he was good early in his career was because defences never really knew how to defend him because he was unique. Once they studied lots of game tape, it was very easy to shut him down

 

 

Must just be a coincidence that "studying of game tape" coincided with losing Harbaugh, Boldin, Crabtree, Davis, Gore and 4/5ths of the offensive line.

[prissythecat]

 

 

Must just be a coincidence that "studying of game tape" coincided with losing Harbaugh, Boldin, Crabtree, Davis, Gore and 4/5ths of the offensive line.

 

But Kap was already bad even before they blew up the coaching staff and most of the talent in the roster

[boyst]

 

But Kap was already bad even before they blew up the coaching staff and most of the talent in the roster

bad may be too harsh. Declining in ability, maybe. He trended down just like Alonso did his rookie year. Couldn't keep up. Too small of frame and the league caught on to him.

[Real McClappy]

 

 

Must just be a coincidence that "studying of game tape" coincided with losing Harbaugh, Boldin, Crabtree, Davis, Gore and 4/5ths of the offensive line.

Spot on and don't forget the D being a shell of what is was.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

It's a waste of my time to argue with someone who doesn't realize Taylor is measurably much better than EJ could ever be in 2015, 2016 or whatever year you want to use. Pointing to one team that EJ lost to in 2015 and then pointing to that same team in 2016 that Taylor barely beat and saying "see Taylor wasn't very good or under achieved" seems flawed at best.

 

Why did the Jags only have three wins? Because they are still a very flawed team. Their defense was better, 6th ranked, but not great. They weren't a Houston or Seattle type defense. And the offense turned the ball over way too many times as was already noted.

The feeling is mutual then.

 

It's a waste of peoples time to argue with someone who doesn't realize that Taylor who is measurably much better than EJ could barely squeak out victories over bad teams like the Jags and Titans. Nor manage to keep pace with the likes of FITZ and Tannehill, and have 1 win against teams with a record of .500 or better.

 

 

It's a waste of peoples time to argue losses against "good" defenses when the Bills lost to teams with much worse defenses.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

Kaep only works as a Bills backup if we think this is a "win now" team. Ideally you want your backup to have a similar skill set as your starter so the transition isn't catastrophic in the event of an injury. That said, if you think having a QB with pocket skills is a necessity, do you really want both guys in front of your "development project" to share similar bad habits. If Tyrod is a place holder, I'd rather have a backup that can help develop Cardale or (QB to be drafted).

 

According to Dan Graziano of ESPN, two sources have said that Kaepernick is currently seeking a deal in the $9-$10 million range in addition to the immediate chance to compete for a starting job. There aren’t many teams that can offer the latter, and those that do are probably balking a bit at the former.

[Punching Bag]

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/03/27/las-vegas-raiders-replay-review-overtime-nfl-meetings

 

Good comments in MMQB column

 

 

I think if we take away the emotion of this story—are teams blackballing Colin Kaepernick?—and bring the story down to football, the one thing that is undeniable about Kaepernick is that he does not attempt the throws into downfield windows like some of the consistent veteran quarterbacks. This is not to say he can’t do that; it is simply to say he bypasses throws the Tom Bradys and Drew Breeses and Russell Wilsons will try (and complete, often). You’ll look at Kaepernick’s 16-to-4 touchdown-to-pick ratio in 2016 and think he’s efficient in a sea of badness in San Francisco. But people who watch the tape think otherwise. They see a jittery guy in the pocket who either doesn’t, or won’t, make downfield throws that other quarterbacks do. The thing is, it’s easy to say he’s getting blackballed based on 2012 and 2013. But life changes. Priorities change. Who is he now? The people Kaepernick needs to convince have no idea who he is right now.

[Thurman#1]

I don't think the NFL is moving back toward traditional pocket passers. The NFL has been moving toward the hybrid qb that has the ability to do both. Look at the top 4 qb prospects. All have the ability to run, some with speed and others with a little more power.

 

There are very few traditional pocket passers that come from the college ranks anymore. You just dont see the rivers, manning, brady types coming out. Maybe the last group would be flacco/ryan but that was almost a decade ago.

 

The ideal passer is Rodgers who is able to run and pass (with the emphasis being more on the pass). Look at the younger qbs like Mariotta, Luck, Newton, Wilson. All have the ability to do both to varying degrees. Even guys like Stafford and Ryan trained to get quicker and had probably their best years.

 

The trick is finding that player. In the meantime, tyrod is not a bad option. He fits more closely to RGIII and Kap but tt is more elusive and durable than Griffin and he has a more compact delivery and more touch than kap. Plus he throws well on the run. So while we would all want our qb to rely more on the pass you have to play to your qbs strengths and that happens to be mobility with tt and the ability to stretch a defense vertically with his deep ball.

 

 

Mariota, Luck, Newton and Wilson are traditional pocket passers. They stay in the pocket as long as they can, which allows the play to develop if it's going to. Yeah, if the play breaks down, they're athletic. But they don't bail out till the rush drives them out. They are pocket passers, while RGII and Kaepernick are not.

 

Ryan is an unathletic pocket passer and one of the best QBs in the game. Derek Carr is too. Cousins is no big runner. A healthy Dalton - when their OL gets back to at least decent - looks like he's going to keep the Bengals relevant for the next ten years. I could definitely be wrong about this but I think Wentz is going to be very good for a very long time and he's no athlete.

 

Traditional pocket passers dominate the league, but a few of them can do extra things, particularly Wilson, Newton and Jameis. But they stay in the pocket and are very effective there unti forced out.