Whaley wants Cardale to be 2017 starter

[Gugny]

I'd like to see a season of Tyrod with a stable of healthy receivers.

Cutting Taylor to sign/draft another QB would at best, be a lateral move,and would more likely extend their negative playoff 'streak'

It is not Taylor's fault that the Bills signed him to such a ridiculous contract.

I say suck it up, and keep him for another season.

 

Just like it wasn't Aaron Maybin's fault that the Bills drafted him in the first round. But it still made sense to get rid of him.

[Chuck Wagon]

This "inferior team" received 9 Pro Bowl invites and were top 10 in scoring. People who act like we are one notch above the Cleveland Browns are not even worth paying attention to. This team has been within reach of the playoffs for several years now. Blowing it up, tanking, is not what you do.

 

If you are going to tank, release all your players and field a team 53 scrubs. Don't ask players like Shady and Jerry Hughes to waste their careers on this team.

 

 

I'd argue the Browns were incredibly moronic for blowing their team up as well. Taking Manziel over Carr or Bridgewater in the 2014 draft was an all time screw up for them, but their 2014 team was competitive and look at what they've done since 2014: they allowed 2/5ths of a very solid offensive line to walk out of the door for nothing. Sure, Mack was gone regardless of what they did, but they lost Schwartz for nothing over what amounted to hurt feelings. They flat out cut Gabriel. Sheard, Gipson, Ward, Skrine, Benjamin all got away for nothing in their primes. Their plan to replace those guys were washed up guys like Dansby, Whitner and Bowe.

 

Sure, they have a lot of draft picks, but given what they've done with their talent level it's very hard to tell if the guys they drafted last year can actually play or if the expansion level talent around them just made below average NFL players look competent. Trading down in the draft is nothing new for them, this new regime isn't reinventing the wheel, they are just doing the same things that resulted in trades like Julio Jones for Phil Taylor.

 

 

This isn't the NBA. You can't race to the bottom, get a "franchise QB" and expect them to carry you through whatever. More often than not those guys are going to fail because of the sub par talent around them. Look at QBs like Brady, Wilson, Rodgers, Roethlisberger now Dak. Are they simply "cut from a different cloth"? or were they put in positions with talent around them that allowed them to mature into the players they've become? Almost every QB drafted has the physical gifts to succeed in the league. It's not an accident that well run teams have franchise QBs and poorly run teams have treadmills at the position. Luck has no running game, an awful offensive line and no defense and still you'll find people who "aren't sold on him". If you create an environment that allows a QB to succeed, the chances of finding one who does increase dramatically.

[Augie]

Just like it wasn't Aaron Maybin's fault that the Bills drafted him in the first round. But it still made sense to get rid of him.

But Maybin was given every opportunity to prove he could do the job, and failed. I can't say the same for Tyrod because he didn't have NFL caliber WR's to work with most of the time. I'm not saying he's the guy, just that it's hard to tell given that he didn't have adequate tools to work with. Far from ideal.

[San-O]

lol.

 

If true Whaleys a !@#$ing idiot..... no surprise though considering he went into a season with EJ, Thad Lewis, and Jeff Turl as his starting QBs.

+ 1

 

Agreed. HOWEVER. This is certainly a rebuilding year, again, whether we like it or not, and why not let Cardale out there for 1 season: This years draft

is not deep at QB and next year is supposed to be better anyhow. Just a thought.

 

Whaley seem completely lost when selecting a QB, so maybe Whaley will be gone after yet another miss at QB.

[Gugny]

But Maybin was given every opportunity to prove he could do the job, and failed. I can't say the same for Tyrod because he didn't have NFL caliber WR's to work with most of the time. I'm not saying he's the guy, just that it's hard to tell given that he didn't have adequate tools to work with. Far from ideal.

 

The WRs he had were open all season long.

 

Tyrod just chose to either run or to check down.

[Chuck Wagon]

+ 1

 

Agreed. HOWEVER. This is certainly a rebuilding year, again, whether we like it or not, and why not let Cardale out there for 1 season: This years draft

is not deep at QB and next year is supposed to be better anyhow. Just a thought.

 

Whaley seem completely lost when selecting a QB, so maybe Whaley will be gone after yet another miss at QB.

 

 

There are likely a half dozen "franchise" QBs who'd look lost throwing the likes of Clay, Salas, Justin Hunter, Goodwin, etc. Did Tom Brady flip a switch as a player when Troy Brown and Jabar Gaffney were replaced by Randy Moss and Wes Welker and he started breaking records?

[jahnyc]

If the front office and the new coaching staff make a decision that TT is not the long-term (or even short-term answer), then fine. What I do not want to see is another situation where the Bills are desperate to draft a QB in a year where there are no decent QBs available where the Bills pick, so they force the pick and choose a player that should not have been drafted in that range of picks (i.e., EJ). Worse, I don't want to see the Bills waste valuable picks to trade up for a QB prospect that should not be drafted that high or who has significant question marks (or both).

 

Whaley and Cardale feels too much like Whaley and EJ. He seems to be really stubborn about these things.

[San-O]

 

 

There are likely a half dozen "franchise" QBs who'd look lost throwing the likes of Clay, Salas, Justin Hunter, Goodwin, etc. Did Tom Brady flip a switch as a player when Troy Brown and Jabar Gaffney were replaced by Randy Moss and Wes Welker and he started breaking records?

 

 

OK. You think TT is the answer I do not.

 

Answer me a question: who were the 4 QB playing at the end of the season in AFC and NFC Champ. games?

 

I can never in my wildest dreams, ever see TT playing at anywhere near those levels: ever.

[Chuck Wagon]

 

 

OK. You think TT is the answer I do not.

 

Answer me a question: who were the 4 QB playing at the end of the season in AFC and NFC Champ. games?

 

I can never in my wildest dreams, ever see TT playing at anywhere near those levels: ever.

 

 

No, I did not say TT is the answer. In fact I've said several times that we simply can't keep him on the contract he's going to receive. But we did not have the pieces to allow any passing game to prosper last year.

[GunnerBill]

No, I did not say TT is the answer. In fact I've said several times that we simply can't keep him on the contract he's going to receive. But we did not have the pieces to allow any passing game to prosper last year.

But the receivers we did have were open and igonred too often. When you watch the tape it is an indisputible fact.

[BADOLBILZ]

You mean along with every other team? In Wilson and Prescotts case 3 and 4 times?

 

 

Did I mention that he said EJ Manuel had "It"?

 

I give him credit for taking a shot on Cardale.......when you have a highly suspect QB eye like Whaley it is easy to continually pass on QB's for fear of failure........but if you don't have a franchise QB you just can't afford to do that.

 

I have high hopes for Cardale.....but in 2 years or so.....not now.

 

IMO the last thing he needs is someone handing him a job.

 

The last time that happened he got himself benched at Ohio State and he hasn't won a QB competition since HS.

 

Tyrod Taylor is a lesser prototype and his flaws have been well documented.....but he's been a point producer and excellent protector of the football and he has earned what he's gotten to this point.

 

I want to see someone step up and knock him off before we play sink or swim with someone who couldn't even keep a gifted starting gig in college.

[1billsfan]

 

 

There are likely a half dozen "franchise" QBs who'd look lost throwing the likes of Clay, Salas, Justin Hunter, Goodwin, etc. Did Tom Brady flip a switch as a player when Troy Brown and Jabar Gaffney were replaced by Randy Moss and Wes Welker and he started breaking records?

 

Did you know at the 21 games started marker, Odell Beckham had 21 TDs. That's nearly twice as many as Sammy Watkin's 11 TDs (who's started 21 games so far in his career)?

 

Even WHEN Watkins is starting, Tyrod Taylor doesn't know how to get him the football. You're using excuses. Taylor simply is not a good enough QB to take this team to a contending level of play that everyone expects. Great guy, he just isn't great at the one thing you want your QB to be great at, passing the football.

[BADOLBILZ]

Interested to read Badol's views on Rosen and Darnold and the other likely 2018 QBs. I don't watch as much college football as a lot of you over there so I tend to focus on the top teams with draftable prospects (particularly at QB) that upcoming year.

 

But I wouldn't be surprised based on what he and Blokes have said if we are not hearing by October about a 2018 QB class with no elite prospects.

 

Let me be clear that is not my assessment I haven't watched enough. But Blokes and Badol both know their onions.

 

 

Just another QB class at this point, IMO.

 

I followed the group since HS and Rosen was really the "one" from that group at that time and he's got a suspect arm and a less than ideal personality.

 

Darnold had an excellent run when he was put in during the season but we will see how he responds to the pressure of national championship type expectations.

 

The bottom line is that "Suck for Cardale" one offseason became "Suck for Watson" the next and now it's "suck for Darnold".

 

The one thing they all had in common was the assumption that they would all get better and Cardale and Watson looked less pro-ready with more exposure.

 

This years class probably has more physical prototypes than next year.........heck Chad Kelly might go undrafted and he has a big arm.

 

Lots of arm talent this year.......no guarantees that next year will be better..........or even that all of those guys will come out.

[1billsfan]

 

 

Did I mention that he said EJ Manuel had "It"?

 

I give him credit for taking a shot on Cardale.......when you have a highly suspect QB eye like Whaley it is easy to continually pass on QB's for fear of failure........but if you don't have a franchise QB you just can't afford to do that.

 

I have high hopes for Cardale.....but in 2 years or so.....not now.

 

IMO the last thing he needs is someone handing him a job.

 

The last time that happened he got himself benched at Ohio State and he hasn't won a QB competition since HS.

 

Tyrod Taylor is a lesser prototype and his flaws have been well documented.....but he's been a point producer and excellent protector of the football and he has earned what he's gotten to this point.

 

I want to see someone step up and knock him off before we play sink or swim with someone who couldn't even keep a gifted starting gig in college.

 

That's kind of ridiculous. If you aren't ready after red shirting a full year then he will never be ready, ever. At the beginning of the 2017 season Cardale would have had 24 games worth of watching (4 preseason and 16 games of the 2016 season, and 4 pre season games of the 2017 season). At that point it's time to play in real games and really start the learning process.

 

On a side note, imagine the 2 point conversion rate with Jones. I imagine he'd be a monster on goal line and those type of situations. Bull dosing in, using him as a blocker on reverses, 4th and 1.

[BADOLBILZ]

But the receivers we did have were open and igonred too often. When you watch the tape it is an indisputible fact.

 

True. But the assumption is that Tyrod just couldn't and won't ever be able to make those reads and throws............and that they would also be there for another QB.

 

Not sure that's the case.

 

I think he provides a very unusual run-pass-run option that makes for a lot of "college-open" looks in the pass game........but that he's also an extremely cautious passer and that defenses did a good job of disguising some coverages to cause pause in his decision making.

 

I think he can get better and that he's an entirely more aggressive and confident passer when he has weapons to throw to........rather than guys like Goodwin, Powell, Tate and Hunter.

[John from Riverside]

 

Just like it wasn't Aaron Maybin's fault that the Bills drafted him in the first round. But it still made sense to get rid of him.

omg u did not just go there

[FireChan]

 

True. But the assumption is that Tyrod just couldn't and won't ever be able to make those reads and throws............and that they would also be there for another QB.

 

Not sure that's the case.

 

I think he provides a very unusual run-pass-run option that makes for a lot of "college-open" looks in the pass game........but that he's also an extremely cautious passer and that defenses did a good job of disguising some coverages to cause pause in his decision making.

 

I think he can get better and that he's an entirely more aggressive and confident passer when he has weapons to throw to........rather than guys like Goodwin, Powell, Tate and Hunter.

It's not confidence. Open is open. Throw the damn ball.

 

Every franchise QB has some scrub WR that they hit when they're wide open.

[John from Riverside]

 

That's kind of ridiculous. If you aren't ready after red shirting a full year then he will never be ready, ever. At the beginning of the 2017 season Cardale would have had 24 games worth of watching (4 preseason and 16 games of the 2016 season, and 4 pre season games of the 2017 season). At that point it's time to play in real games and really start the learning process.

 

On a side note, imagine the 2 point conversion rate with Jones. I imagine he'd be a monster on goal line and those type of situations. Bull dosing in, using him as a blocker on reverses, 4th and 1.

yu really dont know what you have in c jones yet and he might make a big leap going into next season

 

yu just cannot count on it

[Gugny]

omg u did not just go there

 

Oh, yes I did (snap, snap, snap)!

[BADOLBILZ]

 

That's kind of ridiculous. If you aren't ready after red shirting a full year then he will never be ready, ever. At the beginning of the 2017 season Cardale would have had 24 games worth of watching (4 preseason and 16 games of the 2016 season, and 4 pre season games of the 2017 season). At that point it's time to play in real games and really start the learning process.

 

On a side note, imagine the 2 point conversion rate with Jones. I imagine he'd be a monster on goal line and those type of situations. Bull dosing in, using him as a blocker on reverses, 4th and 1.

 

 

We'll have to disagree on how to develop a QB that lost his starting job in his last year of college.

 

Regarding 2 point conversions..... the Bills were great at the goal line with Taylor.......2nd in the league in redzone TD % for most of the year......so not sure what the odds of Cardale being an "upgrade" in that regard are.

 

EJ and Cardale produced just a 50% redzone TD number in the Jets game and also turned the ball over 3 times costing the Bills some rank in redzone efficiency and a potential NFL record for fewest turnovers in a 16 games season.