Beef Jerky Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 Saying the cap hit is all that matters is correct. The cap hit of the $30.5 million guaranteed is ... wait for it ... $30.5 million. The minute money is guaranteed, it is absolutely guaranteed that that money will hit the cap. What you're saying is that only money that hits the cap THIS YEAR matters. And that's bull ****. To repeat for like the eleven millionth time, if Tyrod stays for one year, he will be guaranteed $30.5 million. That will be a $30.5 million dollar hit to our cap, around $16 million this year and around $14 million next year as dead money. Total, $30.5 million that can not be used to bring in other players at a time when we're desperate for money. $30.5 million for one year of Tyrod Taylor. If Tyrod stays for two years he will be guaranteed $40.5 million. That will be a $40.5 million hit to our cap, around $16 mill the first year, around $15 or $16 mill the second year and the rest in dead money in the third year. Again, total, $40.5 million that can not be used to bring in other players. For two years of a quarterback with the talent level of Tyrod Taylor. Point still stands. Yes, some teams keep a bridge QB while they bring in new guys. Not many do so when the bridge QB will cost them $30.5 million if they only keep him for one year and $40.5 million if they keep him for two years. Osweiler got more than that guaranteed. They weren't thinking of him as a bridge guy. I can't think of a single bridge guy who has ever been guaranteed that much. Or anything close. His yearly cap hit won't be bad... I won't say it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 I do not know enough about Salaries and Cap to make a judgement. And who know what is going right now with Bills considering 24 potential open roster spots. Wish it was easier. But this is the Bills I'll be honest here. Looking at the draftable QBs out there, the Bills might feel like they're stuck. This QB class is not good and they might believe they're better off keeping TT for 2-3 more seasons while they find their FQB. They've got a small window to see what they can get via FA before they have to decide in his option - and then there's also potential trades. His yearly cap hit won't be bad... I won't say it again. Well, it's a pretty tough contract. Some of the cap pain can be spread over an additional season, but then you're dealing with some real dead money in a season when he's not on the roster. That's not great. $40.5M for two seasons of service is well beyond his worth. That's what you're going to get - even if some of that cap hit can be pushed into a third season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 (edited) His yearly cap hit won't be bad... I won't say it again. Well, yes, if you ignore a large part of the situation and pretend it doesn't exist, then the one part of the situation you're willing to talk about looks OK. But what you're doing is spinning. I'd rather look at the facts. All of them. The whole impact of keeping him is what matters. Why would you ignore the dead money? If we keep him one year it will cost a total of $30.5 mill against the cap. If we keep him for two years it will cost a total of $40.5 mill against the cap. And those are outrageous. Edited January 27, 2017 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 Thank you. There's no right or wrong answer. Just wanted to know if people would regret spending 30 million on a QB if he stayed about the same but the end result was 6 wins, for example. On a bridge QB, I would consider this a huge, huge waste. And I think Tyrod is a bridge guy. I hoped over last offseason maybe he'd make some big steps forward and start to show franchise QB capabilities. Instead he regressed. So I think he's going to be a bridge guy, and a bridge guy for six wins, on the roster for one year with a two year hit of $30.5 mill? It's hard to imagine a better definition of waste. Same hypothetical with a rookie with a high ceiling who'll stay on the roster and I'm in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 (edited) Just last year Fitz was given 12 million and Bradford signed a 2 year 35 million dollar contract. Both of those were considered to be bridge guys. Try reading my post again. I asked about bridge guys who were guaranteed $30.5 mill. Neither Fitz nor Bradford was guaranteed anything close to that. And Bradford wasn't considered a bridge guy. He was considered a guy who might become a franchise guy ... or not. A guy who could be either a bridge or a franchise guy. And he still wasn't guaranteed anything close to what Tyrod would be if they took him up on his option. You really need to look around the league for what the contract pays and where that places him. On the face of 40 million it seems extreme until you see that it puts him as the 17th highest paid QB. Two years, $40 million is $20 million a year. That is absolutely not the 17th highest paid QB. It is the 13th highest. Here are the 12 who would be above him in average salary at that level : Andrew Luck Carson Palmer Drew Brees Joe Flacco Aaron Rodgers Russell Wilson Roethlisberger Eli Manning Philip Rivers Cam Newton Matt Ryan Tom Brady In that order. He'd be just about even with Brady. Tyrod doesn't belong with them. Edited January 27, 2017 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice2145 Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 The whole TT situation is a perfect example of why our organization is dysfunctional and second rate. OBD is now in a situation they can't win. As noted, 30-40mil for gap QB or let him go for who knows what. Either way we lose as fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 (edited) I love how you continue to ignore his 2015 season where he was 8th in passer rating and 5th in YPA. Is 8th and 5th average? Your agenda is showing. I love how you keep ignoring his regression and desperately trying to get everyone to average in his first year before they figured him out to make last year look a bit more decent. My agenda is showing? Puh-leeze. The whole TT situation is a perfect example of why our organization is dysfunctional and second rate. OBD is now in a situation they can't win. As noted, 30-40mil for gap QB or let him go for who knows what. Either way we lose as fans. Good post. You made me depressed, though. Top 7 scoring offense. Historic lack of turnovers on offense. A lot of that was due to Tyrod. An awful lot more was the terrific running game than the substandard pass game. 29 rushing TDs 17 passing TDs 3 defensive TDs Barely more than a third of our TDs in a league in which not a single other team had more run TDs than pass TDs. 27th in receiving TDs. 1st in rushing TDs. Thank goodness the run game was good. No wonder teams said, "Make him be a QB." Edited January 27, 2017 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 But on the other hand, that 27th in receiving TDs did have us beating out the high-powered passing games of the Jets, Eagles, Browns, Texans and Rams. Final four teams: Falcons 2nd, Steelers 4th, Pats 6th and Packers 1st. Who needs passing TDs anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 Try reading my post again. I asked about bridge guys who were guaranteed $30.5 mill. Neither Fitz nor Bradford was guaranteed anything close to that. And Bradford wasn't considered a bridge guy. He was considered a guy who might become a franchise guy ... or not. A guy who could be either a bridge or a franchise guy. And he still wasn't guaranteed anything close to what Tyrod would be if they took him up on his option. Two years, $40 million is $20 million a year. That is absolutely not the 17th highest paid QB. It is the 13th highest. Here are the 12 who would be above him in average salary at that level : Andrew Luck Carson Palmer Drew Brees Joe Flacco Aaron Rodgers Russell Wilson Roethlisberger Eli Manning Philip Rivers Cam Newton Matt Ryan Tom Brady In that order. He'd be just about even with Brady. Tyrod doesn't belong with them. Thurman I make you 100% correct. I have been trying to get people to understand this all year. Saying that Tyrod is cheap compared to guys who are obvious franchise Quarterbacks (maybe exception of Carson Palmer who might be in that Peyton Manning position of being paid like one but no longer capable of playing like one) is an irrelevant argument. All of those QBs have Quarterbacked teams at the very least to a Conference Title game, most to a Superbowl and it includes the 7 active Superbowl winning QBs (maybe soon to be 8). The only purpose in comparing Tyrod to those guys is if you really believe he can lead this team to a conference title game. Personally, I don't think he can. He is a bridge Quarterback in my eyes. And when you compare him to the people in that category his salary is way out of whack - the only other two I think are as ridiculous are Brock Osweiler (we know what happened there) and Ryan Tannehill who is a shock candidate to be released at the end of next year if the Dolphins don't repeat their success this year and he doesn't improve (a post 1 June 2017 cut would cost the Fins only $5.8m in dead money). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Jerky Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 Try reading my post again. I asked about bridge guys who were guaranteed $30.5 mill. Neither Fitz nor Bradford was guaranteed anything close to that. And Bradford wasn't considered a bridge guy. He was considered a guy who might become a franchise guy ... or not. A guy who could be either a bridge or a franchise guy. And he still wasn't guaranteed anything close to what Tyrod would be if they took him up on his option. Two years, $40 million is $20 million a year. That is absolutely not the 17th highest paid QB. It is the 13th highest. Here are the 12 who would be above him in average salary at that level : Andrew Luck Carson Palmer Drew Brees Joe Flacco Aaron Rodgers Russell Wilson Roethlisberger Eli Manning Philip Rivers Cam Newton Matt Ryan Tom Brady In that order. He'd be just about even with Brady. Tyrod doesn't belong with them. You said you want to look at all the facts... Yet you don't look at when those contracts were made. The cap situation is different now and those QBs would be even higher if they had new contracts. Brady is not to be compared b.c he is the only QB who "does it for the team". So what I said is still true. Maybe in a few Year Tyrod will be the 25th highest paid QB with the way new contracts work. See Thruman in the NFL every previous contract usually gets outdated very quickly with the changing economy in the NFL. This is how it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 (edited) Two years, $40 million is $20 million a year. That is absolutely not the 17th highest paid QB. It is the 13th highest. Here are the 12 who would be above him in average salary at that level : Andrew Luck Carson Palmer Drew Brees Joe Flacco Aaron Rodgers Russell Wilson Roethlisberger Eli Manning Philip Rivers Cam Newton Matt Ryan Tom Brady In that order. He'd be just about even with Brady. Tyrod doesn't belong with them. Oh, Thurman... 2017 Cap Hit 2018 Cap Hit Edited January 27, 2017 by Wayne Arnold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 (edited) You said you want to look at all the facts... Yet you don't look at when those contracts were made. The cap situation is different now and those QBs would be even higher if they had new contracts. Brady is not to be compared b.c he is the only QB who "does it for the team". So what I said is still true. Maybe in a few Year Tyrod will be the 25th highest paid QB with the way new contracts work. See Thruman in the NFL every previous contract usually gets outdated very quickly with the changing economy in the NFL. This is how it works. Dude, you're missing the point. And the list proves it. If things were actually different and guys were getting better contracts now .... there would be guys like Tyrod there. And there aren't. Not a single bridge QB in the bunch. The bridge guys start around #18, though there are a few horrible guesses at franchise guys higher ... Osweiler and Kaepernick (#15 and #17 and will never get a contact that high again). Oh, Thurman... No words, hunh, Wayne? Yup, that's what posts with a point will do. Some day I'll maybe get desperate enough to waste the time necessary to start opening these little gif or jpg things. Thank goodness that day hasn't arrived yet. Edited January 27, 2017 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 No words, hunh, Wayne? Yup, that's what intelligent posts will do. Some day I'll maybe get desperate enough to waste the time necessary to start opening these little things. Thank goodness that day hasn't arrived yet. Sometimes words aren't necessary. Open what little things? They're pictures. Look at them and you will educate yourself and eventually you will stop making yourself look so uninformed and unintelligent. Someday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 He helped the running game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 Why is everyone obsessed with passing touchdowns when scoring points any which way IS THE SAME RESULT??? You ever think Tyrods a big reason for why our running game was so good? Because passing touchdowns are worth more points. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 I don't care how they score their points... not one bit. But even given their point scoring exploits this year I don't think Tyrod is a franchise Quarterback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 Will someone explain to me why the Bills had to give Tyrod that contract at that time? They did this to themselves. Whaley continues to amaze me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 Will someone explain to me why the Bills had to give Tyrod that contract at that time? They did this to themselves. Whaley continues to amaze me. What difference would it make? They would still be in the position they're in, except Taylor would have all of the power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 What difference would it make? They would still be in the position they're in, except Taylor would have all of the power. Agree with this. The ONLY difference it would make to the Bills is they would have the franchise tag available (which would allow them to string it out another year I suppose). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 Will someone explain to me why the Bills had to give Tyrod that contract at that time? They did this to themselves. Whaley continues to amaze me. That contract wasn't and isn't as bad as people make it out to be. I say that because the Bills have an option to walk away if they so choose. Most other teams would have just signed the guy to a longer term contract. And then Tyrod would automatically be assumed to be the starting quarterback going into next year. Instead the Bills left themselves with an "out" so that "if" Tyrod turned out to be a bad qb they could move on from him rather than be stuck with the guy for years to come. That is why it was a "prove it" contract where they could evaluate him after a while and then see if they wanted to be married to him for another 3 years or more. The part of this situation that effed things up was the fact that the Bills had Greg Roman as an offensive coordinator. As such, the Bills passed the ball less than any other team. That resulted in what "appeared" to be a weak passing attack. And some people blame that lack of passing production entirely on the QB. When in reality what happened was they saw the Bills lose a close game. Then they looked at the stats and saw total passing yards was low. So they went looking for "why" it was low. And they saw Tyrod miss an open receiver and not throw him the ball. So they told themselves that Tyrod was the reason for the low passing yards. When in fact, Tyrod was playing about average ball as a passer (some games above average and some below) if you account for his number of pass attempts. The only reason there is any question about Tyrod right now is because of Greg Roman's style of offense. If Tyrod had been given the opportunity to throw the ball more often in an offense that was designed to throw the ball more, then even this low percentage of people who want to cut him would be saying we should keep him. Well except for the true haters of which there is a handful of people here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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