Coach Tuesday Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 I'm not propping it up........I actually watch the tape and see what is happening that creates these opportunities for guys like Karlos and MG. They produced better than McCoy in 2015 because they followed the design of the play.......the effectiveness of which was greatly enhanced by the run-pass-run option that Tyrod presents. It was clear LAST season.........but dismissed because of a small sample size.........so we look at the bigger sample size and it JUST KEEPS STACKIN'.......there is no "phenomenon".....and McCoy got into the act this year too. It is what it is.......if you think that you can plug Brian Hoyer into this offense and average 5.5 ypc and 20 TD's over the course of about 350 carries........well then I guess Whaley is a genius for the brilliance of Mills, Miller and Groy. I am with you on all of the above. I am still not sold that they gave Tyrod the right contract at the right time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 Honestly though, Karlos had one good season of YPC just like Powell and yet my sample size is invalid but you get to count fat weed man? Nah. I have to ask about your WR take. I've obviously followed your posts in the past. Have you not consistently asked for a wide-catch radius open when he's covered WR for TT? If he's shown he can make do with a couple of JAGs at WR, and our offense is designed to pass 20 times or so a game and still put up points, why not use our very limited resources on a pass rusher, a position we are sorely lacking in with the departure/retirement of Mario Williams, and if I've understood you correctly, the second most important position in the NFL today? Why couldn't Boom Herron and Boobie Dixon take advantage of TT's greatness? Actually, that's being DISHONEST about the point........which is that TWO running backs consistently put up near identical numbers as the primary backups.....including doing it to the same tune over the course of the final 2.5 games of 2015 when McCoy was out. I want a big WR threat opposite Watkins because I am dying to see a great offense in Buffalo.........it's been 25+ years since the team scored at the rate they did this year when Tyrod was at QB and there is room to get better by basically adding one piece. But I'm not expecting a $10M+ WR nor am I counting the chickens that are draft picks taken for need............like that great pass rusher Shaq Lawson or "greatest Alabama ILB of all time of 2015/stone cold lock of the week of the century" Reggie Ragnuts. But I am not against adding a pass rusher...........as I said in another thread I think that if they choose to let Gilmore walk Jason Pierre Paul is a sleeper free agent option if his market is softer than expected because he is an ideal fit in McDermott's D. As for Boobie...........you do realize that Boobie was a fullback who probably couldn't crack 5 flat in the 40? And for Boom: The reason Gillislee has succeeded in Roman's system is that he followed the play the way it was drawn up........that's it........he was step for step doing it like Roman drew it up and that puts him in position to make plays at the second level. Boom in his limited exposure and Shady in his 200 carries of 2015 did not follow the offense like it was drawn up. Shady worked at correcting his tendency to take every run out of bounds and when Lynn stepped in for Roman he funneled the run game to the inside more. You can probably count the number of times Shady went out of bounds in any 2-3 game period in 2015 and it was more than he did it in ALL of his 15 games in 2016. Made all the difference because the big plays are to be had INSIDE in this run game.....not along the sidelines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 (edited) Actually, that's being DISHONEST about the point........which is that TWO running backs consistently put up near identical numbers as the primary backups.....including doing it to the same tune over the course of the final 2.5 games of 2015 when McCoy was out. I want a big WR threat opposite Watkins because I am dying to see a great offense in Buffalo.........it's been 25+ years since the team scored at the rate they did this year when Tyrod was at QB and there is room to get better by basically adding one piece. But I'm not expecting a $10M+ WR nor am I counting the chickens that are draft picks taken for need............like that great pass rusher Shaq Lawson or "greatest Alabama ILB of all time of 2015/stone cold lock of the week of the century" Reggie Ragnuts. But I am not against adding a pass rusher...........as I said in another thread I think that if they choose to let Gilmore walk Jason Pierre Paul is a sleeper free agent option if his market is softer than expected because he is an ideal fit in McDermott's D. As for Boobie...........you do realize that Boobie was a fullback who probably couldn't crack 5 flat in the 40? And for Boom: The reason Gillislee has succeeded in Roman's system is that he followed the play the way it was drawn up........that's it........he was step for step doing it like Roman drew it up and that puts him in position to make plays at the second level. Boom in his limited exposure and Shady in his 200 carries of 2015 did not follow the offense like it was drawn up. Shady worked at correcting his tendency to take every run out of bounds and when Lynn stepped in for Roman he funneled the run game to the inside more. You can probably count the number of times Shady went out of bounds in any 2-3 game period in 2015 and it was more than he did it in ALL of his 15 games in 2016. Made all the difference because the big plays are to be had INSIDE in this run game.....not along the sidelines. Fair enough. Whenever you mentioned WR talent, I always took it as wanting another superstar a la Watkins on the roster. A significant deep threat who can out jump CB's doesn't come cheap. Is it possible you're discounting Roman's system and giving too much credit to TT? A cursory look at the YPC of his backups in SF shows that Kendall Hunter out YPCed Gore in 2012 and 2013. Not to mention peak Colin Kaep looks eerily similar to the least 2 seasons of TT. Edited January 28, 2017 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 I think you're underrating Gilleslee a bit Badol - his running style looks just like Fred Jax - great balance and vision. He will be successful in other systems if they leave (and his Instagram post last week suggested that he thinks he's leaving). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Fair enough. Whenever you mentioned WR talent, I always took it as wanting another superstar a la Watkins on the roster. A significant deep threat who can out jump CB's doesn't come cheap. Is it possible you're discounting Roman's system and giving too much credit to TT? A cursory look at the YPC of his backups in SF shows that Kendall Hunter out YPCed Gore in 2012 and 2013. Not to mention peak Colin Kaep looks eerily similar to the least 2 seasons of TT. I think you're underrating Gilleslee a bit Badol - his running style looks just like Fred Jax - great balance and vision. He will be successful in other systems if they leave (and his Instagram post last week suggested that he thinks he's leaving). I'm neither discounting the system or the player...........but in SF with 2 of the most mobile QB's in the league and one of the most talented OL's.........Roman's system only added about .5 ypc production to Frank Gore. Taylor in this system with a much less talented OL is tacking over 1 ypc to the production of these guys. Keep in mind that 4.5 ypc isn't bad production.......Shady averaged less than that in 3 of the 4 seasons prior to 2016. And MG and Karlos are good RB's but not Jim Brown good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 I'm all in favor of replacing TT. 100%. Just as soon as we find someone better. Until then, he's the starter. And that's the sad truth. So let's just put our heads down and walk through this. TT starts and we draft another QB and hope we hit on one ala Dallas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 JP has thrown that ball. never averaged 26 a game same as Packers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 And that's the sad truth. So let's just put our heads down and walk through this. TT starts and we draft another QB and hope we hit on one ala Dallas. Have we given up on Cardale Jones already ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty McFly Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Several reasons everyone's "obsessed with" passing TDs. The first is that the final four teams in the playoffs this year were 1st, 2nd, 4th and 6th in passing TDs. The good teams mostly get them in bunches.. The second is that so many folks on here keep desperately saying "Tyrod must be good because the offense scored a lot." But what you find when you look at the Bills is a terrific run game with McCoy doing incredible things and Gillislee looking terrific behind that excellent run line. And a substandard pass game. The offense wasn't all that great, but the part that really was terrific was the run game. The running game helped him a good deal more. Again, teams were packing the box, daring him to beat them with the pass game. He couldn't do it. "Make him be a QB," they said. For good reason. He doesnt get enough credit for the running game as is. Another LB has to spy Tyrod which opens it up more. As you saw in week 17 when Taylor is not in the backfield the defense will run blitz all day and rush on passing downs knowing they cant get burned by a scramble or a the Tyrod Sandlot Special. If the Bills let go of Tyrod expect the run game to take a hit as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty McFly Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 I don't know where you are getting your stats from but...... Completion percentage - ranked 19 YDS/A 21 QBR 9 And he accomplished that without having Sammy Watkins half the year. Got my stats from ESPN here and here. The problems at receiver this year are why (I think) his stats were lower than 2015 where he ranked.... Completion percentage 17 Yds/A 5 QBR 7 Those stats also came from ESPN here and here. I'd say it is pretty obvious that Tyrod is actually an average to above average quarterback based on his stats. Certainly not the bottom feeder that some here try to paint him as being. This. Nice Work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Have we given up on Cardale Jones already ? Give up? No! Bank on it? Hell no! Draft another quarterback and hope one of those two guys click. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Give up? No! Bank on it? Hell no! Draft another quarterback and hope one of those two guys click. So are we carrying 4 QBs, or is Cardale/rookie good enough to serve as backup as well as project? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Give up? No! Bank on it? Hell no! Draft another quarterback and hope one of those two guys click. I am all about drafting. Next years crop looks better than this one. I hope Whaley sets up his draft to score a QB early in next years draft. But drafting one this year is fine too. Keep bringing them in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 So are we carrying 4 QBs, or is Cardale/rookie good enough to serve as backup as well as project? Carry 3, TT, Cardale and The rook. I bet Washington's happy they took two QB's in the draft that they took RG3. I am all about drafting. Next years crop looks better than this one. I hope Whaley sets up his draft to score a QB early in next years draft. But drafting one this year is fine too. Keep bringing them in Amen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Carry 3, TT, Cardale and The rook. I bet Washington's happy they took two QB's in the draft that they took RG3. Amen. Okay, I was just curious. I think I'm more of the mindset of bringing in a vet backup and positioning for next year to draft a QB, but I understand both sides. I also feel that if there's a prospect they feel good about available at one of their picks they should take them this year, I just don't see the value at the position early in this crop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 (edited) I am all about drafting. Next years crop looks better than this one. I hope Whaley sets up his draft to score a QB early in next years draft. But drafting one this year is fine too. Keep bringing them in This^ May favorite 2017 draft scenario is for the Bills to trade back into the 20s for some team's 2018 1st round pick. That certainly increases your odds of landing a franchise QB in what looks like a very good to excellent draft class. We can all wait a year. Who knows, if Cardale becomes the steal of last years draft with his play, then they'll have two first rounders to become a great team! Edited January 29, 2017 by 1billsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Okay, I was just curious. I think I'm more of the mindset of bringing in a vet backup and positioning for next year to draft a QB, but I understand both sides. I also feel that if there's a prospect they feel good about available at one of their picks they should take them this year, I just don't see the value at the position early in this crop. If they keep TT on for two years they already have that Vet in house This^ May favorite 2017 draft scenario is for the Bills to trade back into the 20s for some team's 2018 1st round pick. That certainly increases your odds of landing a franchise QB in what looks like a very good to excellent draft class. We can all wait a year. Who knows, if Cardale becomes the steal of last years draft with his play, then they'll have two first rounders to become a great team! It might be alot to ask, but i really am hoping Whaley is thinking much as you are ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty McFly Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Actually, that's being DISHONEST about the point........which is that TWO running backs consistently put up near identical numbers as the primary backups.....including doing it to the same tune over the course of the final 2.5 games of 2015 when McCoy was out. I want a big WR threat opposite Watkins because I am dying to see a great offense in Buffalo.........it's been 25+ years since the team scored at the rate they did this year when Tyrod was at QB and there is room to get better by basically adding one piece. But I'm not expecting a $10M+ WR nor am I counting the chickens that are draft picks taken for need............like that great pass rusher Shaq Lawson or "greatest Alabama ILB of all time of 2015/stone cold lock of the week of the century" Reggie Ragnuts. But I am not against adding a pass rusher...........as I said in another thread I think that if they choose to let Gilmore walk Jason Pierre Paul is a sleeper free agent option if his market is softer than expected because he is an ideal fit in McDermott's D. As for Boobie...........you do realize that Boobie was a fullback who probably couldn't crack 5 flat in the 40? And for Boom: The reason Gillislee has succeeded in Roman's system is that he followed the play the way it was drawn up........that's it........he was step for step doing it like Roman drew it up and that puts him in position to make plays at the second level. Boom in his limited exposure and Shady in his 200 carries of 2015 did not follow the offense like it was drawn up. Shady worked at correcting his tendency to take every run out of bounds and when Lynn stepped in for Roman he funneled the run game to the inside more. You can probably count the number of times Shady went out of bounds in any 2-3 game period in 2015 and it was more than he did it in ALL of his 15 games in 2016. Made all the difference because the big plays are to be had INSIDE in this run game.....not along the sidelines. Breh that is a really good analysis and well written enough for anyone who hasnt played the game at a high school level to understand. Nice Work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Breh that is a really good analysis and well written enough for anyone who hasnt played the game at a high school level to understand. Nice Work # Badol is really coming along lately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 If they keep TT on for two years they already have that Vet in house It might be alot to ask, but i really am hoping Whaley is thinking much as you are ! I get that. What I mean to say is I'd prefer our QBs be something like Taylor, Foles, Jones and draft WR/S/CB as opposed to Taylor, Jones, Rookie and drafting WR/QB/DB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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