snafu Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 19 minutes ago, row_33 said: tPs has made his mind up so facts won’t matter a smidgeon or a smidgen the media spinning the perfection of Obama falls in with Hillary being up 17 points on Trump I wasn't trying to play gotcha with TPS, I was asking a question. I'm not pretending to know anything (in this particular case). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 4 minutes ago, TPS said: Yes, that's what I'm trying to get someone to do. Obama's economy was mediocre over the past 4 years, but I'm willing to wager, in the end, those Obama years will be better statistically (in jobs) than what the rose colored glasses-wearing trump supporters think his policies will do. Why is Elkhart, Indiana booming and desperately looking for workers? That community is known for building recreational vehicles. When do people buy recreational vehicles? When they have good expectations for the economy or bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 Trust me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, row_33 said: Trust me... I think you fall in the "trust but verify" category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: I think you fall in the "trust but verify" category. Why would anyone ask for anything else? If someone is going to argue Obama was a more pro-business prez than Trump, there is no point continuing with them in seriousness. It it doesn’t mean Obama was a flop, but Trump is way ahead of Obama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 9 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: Why is Elkhart, Indiana booming and desperately looking for workers? That community is known for building recreational vehicles. When do people buy recreational vehicles? When they have good expectations for the economy or bad? Look, I know it's hard to understand, but all I'm saying is I'm willing to bet that the Trump economy won't outperform the past 4 years based on the measure of jobs created in the entire economy. If trump's policies are so great, then it should show up for the entire economy, not just Elkhart. And without doing a little research, I would think RV sales would be trending up for several years as baby boomers retire--not simply the past year. 26 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: Why is Elkhart, Indiana booming and desperately looking for workers? That community is known for building recreational vehicles. When do people buy recreational vehicles? When they have good expectations for the economy or bad? And what do you know... https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/12/rv-indicator/511787/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 19 minutes ago, row_33 said: Why would anyone ask for anything else? If someone is going to argue Obama was a more pro-business prez than Trump, there is no point continuing with them in seriousness. It it doesn’t mean Obama was a flop, but Trump is way ahead of Obama. You're an idiot...with apologies to D.C. can you find a statement in this thread by someone saying "Obama was more pro-business than trump"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted April 7, 2018 Author Share Posted April 7, 2018 1 hour ago, TPS said: Certainly one can't compare Obama's first term, given the crisis, so I'd be willing to wager that there will be fewer jobs created during Trump's only term than Obama's second....unless you think there's a better definition of "better".....? Are you going to include the types of jobs and wage growth in that definition of better? Obama’s tenure just barely beat a dead cat bounce, for obvious reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, TPS said: Look, I know it's hard to understand, but all I'm saying is I'm willing to bet that the Trump economy won't outperform the past 4 years based on the measure of jobs created in the entire economy. If trump's policies are so great, then it should show up for the entire economy, not just Elkhart. And without doing a little research, I would think RV sales would be trending up for several years as baby boomers retire--not simply the past year. Trump's economy may not add a substantial amount of workers more than Obama's did, but the jobs may not be mostly part-time and they may be better paying jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TH3 Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 I read yesterday that currently every 1 dollar incremental increase in GDP right now....90 cents of it is borrowed. Trump economy? Pretty much...guy leveraged the hell out of everything he did...American household leverage is back to an all time high...partly based on optimism....but even the Fox News pundit said....at some point you can’t pay bills with optimism... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 17 hours ago, DC Tom said: SPDR gold trust. I don't want to seem like I'm pumping shares, either...but I feel that gold as a hedge against rising interest rates and a trade war is pretty common knowledge. And if I'm hedging, I prefer the low volatility of an index fund. And high expense ratio! No dividends, boo! The smart investor keeps his/her money in the low cost, broad based index funds and rides out the good and bad times. I get that things look screwy right now here under Trump, but overall the global economy looks fantastic. Corporate America is selling away to all points on the map as capitalism is expanding in every way, every where. We are probably due for a shock to the market from somewhere, but even a downturn is no reason to turn away from the long term potential which really looks great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, baskin said: I read yesterday that currently every 1 dollar incremental increase in GDP right now....90 cents of it is borrowed. Trump economy? Pretty much...guy leveraged the hell out of everything he did...American household leverage is back to an all time high...partly based on optimism....but even the Fox News pundit said....at some point you can’t pay bills with optimism... Why don't you link to these articles so others can see for themselves? With your reputation, nobody with half of a brain is going to take you seriously on just your say so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 1 minute ago, 3rdnlng said: Why don't you link to these articles so others can see for themselves? With your reputation, nobody with half of a brain is going to take you seriously on just your say so. Why do we have a complete idiot like you calling people names? Go away! Just get out of here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 5 minutes ago, baskin said: I read yesterday that currently every 1 dollar incremental increase in GDP right now....90 cents of it is borrowed. Trump economy? Pretty much...guy leveraged the hell out of everything he did...American household leverage is back to an all time high...partly based on optimism....but even the Fox News pundit said....at some point you can’t pay bills with optimism... How this is new to the Trump years? Amazing how all that borrowing and spending of the Obama years was heralded as brilliant policy but as soon as a Republican becomes President the Democrats want to exercise fiscal restraint. And conversely how the former fiscal hawk Republicans are suddenly open to spending 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, /dev/null said: How this is new to the Trump years? Amazing how all that borrowing and spending of the Obama years was heralded as brilliant policy but as soon as a Republican becomes President the Democrats want to exercise fiscal restraint. And conversely how the former fiscal hawk Republicans are suddenly open to spending Obama was dealing with a recession/high unemployment, you are suppose to run deficits in that situation. Trump is even worse with the tax cuts now, but we are not in recession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 9 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Obama was dealing with a recession/high unemployment, you are suppose to run deficits in that situation. Trump is even worse with the tax cuts now, but we are not in recession. We were told the recession ended in 2009 and were blessed with Green Shoots, a Summer of Recovery, Summer of Recovery 2.0, Summer of Recovery 3.0, and beyond So why did the Obama administration continue to advocate borrowing and spending? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, /dev/null said: We were told the recession ended in 2009 and were blessed with Green Shoots, a Summer of Recovery, Summer of Recovery 2.0, Summer of Recovery 3.0, and beyond So why did the Obama administration continue to advocate borrowing and spending? The high unemployment, like I said. Can you tell us why Trump no the GOP are advocating even more borrowing and spending? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snafu Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 1 minute ago, Tiberius said: The high unemployment, like I said. Can you tell us why Trump no the GOP are advocating even more borrowing and spending? It's a disgrace now -- just like it was a disgrace then. No administration should be proud of that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 6 minutes ago, snafu said: It's a disgrace now -- just like it was a disgrace then. No administration should be proud of that one. And when the next recession comes and we need to borrow more, it might be a real headache Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 54 minutes ago, GG said: Are you going to include the types of jobs and wage growth in that definition of better? Obama’s tenure just barely beat a dead cat bounce, for obvious reasons. Again, I'm not claiming Obama was great, he was not. For comparison, growth in his second term was equivalent to the average under Bushjr--they were both meh at 2.1%. I'm on record here as saying the tax cut will stimulate the economy this year and most likely next but then the next recession will hit. So if you want to include all 4 years no matter the outcome, then I expect the performance over his term won't look so great. Since he's juiced the economy with tax cuts when unemployment is at 4.1%, then that should help wages grow faster, which will be the underlying cause of the Fed's rate hikes and recession. Overall, I don't expect the aggregate numbers will look so great after 4 years, but I'm sure people will be able to find some positives to point to as a "success." We'll see... 50 minutes ago, /dev/null said: How this is new to the Trump years? Amazing how all that borrowing and spending of the Obama years was heralded as brilliant policy but as soon as a Republican becomes President the Democrats want to exercise fiscal restraint. And conversely how the former fiscal hawk Republicans are suddenly open to spending Because the largest deficits under Obama occurred during the recession years; Trump is jacking up deficits when the economy is near the peak of an expansion. That is mainly a problem because the you will be entering the next recession with already large deficits which will make politicians loathe to respond accordingly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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