simpleman Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 I will always feel that EJ got thrown to the fire to early...... and I hope we dont make that mistake with a qb we draft THIS year Some things you can coach up. You can use repetition to build muscle memory, you can point out mistakes and hope the player is open to changing their patterns. In this evaluation from Walter Football, throwing EJ to the fire early may have aggravated the weakness of allowing himself to panic. But some things are just not coach-able. If a QB just does not have the natural instincts between the ears, you can not develop those instincts. It appeared EJ was open to coaching. He was willing to work hard, he gave it everything he could. He just did not have the instincts there that could be honed. Some have them, some don't. You can develop the skills you are born with, but you can't develop what you you do not have. EJ failed not because he was thrown to the fire too early, he just did not have "it". Yes, he might have been a little better with the right coaching and slower development, but he ultimately still would not have had "it", even if everything had gone right for his development. . Weaknesses: Not a natural passer Decision-making Field vision Struggles to work through progressions Runs to quickly Spotty accuracy Can panic at times Didn't play as well against good defenses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 I will always feel that EJ got thrown to the fire to early...... and I hope we dont make that mistake with a qb we draft THIS year I think he got taken out of the fire too quickly, myself. Regardless, he's toast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisonbrigade Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 You do not get rid of a good player unless you have a better player to replace him. Does anyone see that player? Tony Romo will not last 4 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealityCheck Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 The game is entirely too fast for him. All great QBs have one thing in common. they carve up soft zones down the field with what looks like ease, and they score TDs. They do it early and often in their careers. EJ is a dump off underneath the secondary kind of guy. Everything about his game is tragically predictable and consistent. In absolute terms, sure, the things he needs to work on are coachable. However, that doesn't mean EJ can be coached up. If the Bills are going to the Super Bowl any time soon, I just don't see EJ being the reason. Ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 You do not get rid of a good player unless you have a better player to replace him. Does anyone see that player? Tony Romo will not last 4 games. Who is this good player you're referring to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmur66 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Some things you can coach up. You can use repetition to build muscle memory, you can point out mistakes and hope the player is open to changing their patterns. In this evaluation from Walter Football, throwing EJ to the fire early may have aggravated the weakness of allowing himself to panic. But some things are just not coach-able. If a QB just does not have the natural instincts between the ears, you can not develop those instincts. It appeared EJ was open to coaching. He was willing to work hard, he gave it everything he could. He just did not have the instincts there that could be honed. Some have them, some don't. You can develop the skills you are born with, but you can't develop what you you do not have. EJ failed not because he was thrown to the fire too early, he just did not have "it". Yes, he might have been a little better with the right coaching and slower development, but he ultimately still would not have had "it", even if everything had gone right for his development. . Weaknesses: Not a natural passer Decision-making Field vision Struggles to work through progressions Runs to quickly Spotty accuracy Can panic at times Didn't play as well against good defenses Slow Eyes sums that up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prissythecat Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Some things you can coach up. You can use repetition to build muscle memory, you can point out mistakes and hope the player is open to changing their patterns. In this evaluation from Walter Football, throwing EJ to the fire early may have aggravated the weakness of allowing himself to panic. But some things are just not coach-able. If a QB just does not have the natural instincts between the ears, you can not develop those instincts. It appeared EJ was open to coaching. He was willing to work hard, he gave it everything he could. He just did not have the instincts there that could be honed. Some have them, some don't. You can develop the skills you are born with, but you can't develop what you you do not have. EJ failed not because he was thrown to the fire too early, he just did not have "it". Yes, he might have been a little better with the right coaching and slower development, but he ultimately still would not have had "it", even if everything had gone right for his development. . Weaknesses: Not a natural passer Decision-making Field vision Struggles to work through progressions Runs to quickly Spotty accuracy Can panic at times Didn't play as well against good defenses The Bills did like his big hands though : http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000165659/article/buffalo-bills-like-ej-manuels-hands-badweather-play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 You do not get rid of a good player unless you have a better player to replace him. Does anyone see that player? Tony Romo will not last 4 games. I'm with you. While our offense was far from perfect, it did put up a fair number of points. You don't jettison the QB of a team that can score without an alternative plan. Romo doesn't seem like a viable alternative for a number of reasons, including his age and fragility. I've never believed the report that said the decision on Tyrod has already been made. Maybe Whaley or Pegula once said something like, "I don't think this guy will ever get it." But to actually decide to cut him without a Plan B would be insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 I do understand and respect your viewpoint, Reed83HOF. And just to be clear, I'm not suggesting anything or anyone was going to turn EJ Manuel into Ben Rothlisberger. I do think that we didn't maximize his potential. People forget that many of his pre-draft analyses said things like "He has many of the attributes teams are looking for, but he would benefit from some coaching and seasoning before being thrust into a starting role. His ceiling is pretty high since much of what he needs is definitely coachable". My personal viewpoint might differ from some others in that I don't think drafting EJ Manuel was the problem. Teams do their due diligence and they make their pick. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose - the Packers drafted Brohm in the 2nd and he got beaten out in camp by a late round nobody and exposed to waivers, for example. The problem I see is that 1) the Bills are so tight about needing to draft a winner that they don't take enough shots 2) in this day of spread offense and shotgun, it's harder than ever to judge whether or not a QB can transition to the pros. Lighten up Francis! I entirely agree with you last part and you are correct - we don't take enough shots and it is hard to identify who is going to make it or not.... Some things you can coach up. You can use repetition to build muscle memory, you can point out mistakes and hope the player is open to changing their patterns. In this evaluation from Walter Football, throwing EJ to the fire early may have aggravated the weakness of allowing himself to panic. But some things are just not coach-able. If a QB just does not have the natural instincts between the ears, you can not develop those instincts. It appeared EJ was open to coaching. He was willing to work hard, he gave it everything he could. He just did not have the instincts there that could be honed. Some have them, some don't. You can develop the skills you are born with, but you can't develop what you you do not have. EJ failed not because he was thrown to the fire too early, he just did not have "it". Yes, he might have been a little better with the right coaching and slower development, but he ultimately still would not have had "it", even if everything had gone right for his development. . Weaknesses: Not a natural passer Decision-making Field vision Struggles to work through progressions Runs to quickly Spotty accuracy Can panic at times Didn't play as well against good defenses EJ's weaknesses are not the kind you can coach up. This shouldn't even be a debate anymore honestly. When looking for our next QB, we have to remind ourselves that it is easy to fall in love with x QB prospect with the big arm or great leadership skills or what not; at the end of the day it comes down to Accuracy, Decision Making (Field vision, ability to go through progressions) and Poise (runs to quickly, panics, ability to move in the pocket). If you look at it far enough away TT has these same identical limitations... Daniel Jeremiah @MoveTheSticks 10h 10 hours ago Constantly reminding myself when studying QBs-- accuracy, poise, decision making--then make sure he has enough arm, enough mobility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simpleman Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 (edited) I'm with you. While our offense was far from perfect, it did put up a fair number of points. You don't jettison the QB of a team that can score without an alternative plan. Romo doesn't seem like a viable alternative for a number of reasons, including his age and fragility. I've never believed the report that said the decision on Tyrod has already been made. Maybe Whaley or Pegula once said something like, "I don't think this guy will ever get it." But to actually decide to cut him without a Plan B would be insane. In a world without a tight cap keeping TT might make sense. But in order to field a quality team and start building for the future,TT's cap just causes too much damage for his positives. That big chunk of cap over the next two years could be used to resign some of own (Gilmore, Brown, Lorax.) And bring in some FAs to fill the gaps. If he was willing to renegotiate I would have no problem. But someone will be willing to way overpay him. His cap is just too expensive for his contributions. The contract is not his fault, the Front Office put themselves in this spot and now has to live with the consequences yet again of needlessly painting themselves in a cap corner. Edited January 9, 2017 by simpleman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 In a world without a tight cap keeping TT might make sense. But in order to field a quality team and start building for the future,TT's cap just causes too much damage for his positives. That big chunk of cap over the next two years could be used to resign some of own (Gilmore, Brown, Lorax.) And bring in some FAs to fill the gaps. If he was willing to renegotiate I would have no problem. But someone will be willing to way overpay him. His cap is just too expensive for his contributions. The contract is not his fault, the Front Office put themselves in this spot and now has to live with the consequences yet again of needlessly painting themselves in a cap corner. Sal Capaccio @SalSports 7h7 hours ago Sal Capaccio Retweeted Sperayz With adjustments and credits, I believe Bills would be looking at around $45 million under cap if they don't exercise Taylor extension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 In a world without a tight cap keeping TT might make sense. But in order to field a quality team and start building for the future,TT's cap just causes too much damage for his positives. That big chunk of cap over the next two years could be used to resign some of own (Gilmore, Brown, Lorax.) And bring in some FAs to fill the gaps. If he was willing to renegotiate I would have no problem. But someone will be willing to way overpay him. His cap is just too expensive for his contributions. The contract is not his fault, the Front Office put themselves in this spot and now has to live with the consequences yet again of needlessly painting themselves in a cap corner. How will you feel when we actually have a Franchise QB. I see no reason not to pay him for two years middle of the road money. Until I see a better player available at least. Cardale might be that guy in 18. at that point you might have trade value in TT. Or Cardale. don't forget to draft one too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Sal Capaccio @SalSports 7h7 hours ago Sal Capaccio Retweeted Sperayz With adjustments and credits, I believe Bills would be looking at around $45 million under cap if they don't exercise Taylor extension. I wonder if that includes the $2m they are getting back for Dareus suspension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Lighten up Francis! I entirely agree with you last part and you are correct - we don't take enough shots and it is hard to identify who is going to make it or not.... EJ's weaknesses are not the kind you can coach up. This shouldn't even be a debate anymore honestly. When looking for our next QB, we have to remind ourselves that it is easy to fall in love with x QB prospect with the big arm or great leadership skills or what not; at the end of the day it comes down to Accuracy, Decision Making (Field vision, ability to go through progressions) and Poise (runs to quickly, panics, ability to move in the pocket). If you look at it far enough away TT has these same identical limitations... Daniel Jeremiah @MoveTheSticks 10h 10 hours ago Constantly reminding myself when studying QBs-- accuracy, poise, decision making--then make sure he has enough arm, enough mobility. In hindsight, no one can debate that EJ is done, he couldn't make it. Before the fact, my point is that there seemed to be some genuine debate by the various pundits with some saying "eminently coachable" and others seeing red flags. I myself don't have a dog in the fight (except on Blaine Gabbert, where I simply could not believe he was drafted at #10) I'm just pointing out that a whole bunch of people who are paid to evaluate football talent seem to get it wrong on a regular basis. I wonder if that includes the $2m they are getting back for Dareus suspension. I could be wrong but I think it's $3.5M (salary plus prorated bonus) and I think it does Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 I could be wrong but I think it's $3.5M (salary plus prorated bonus) and I think it does Oh, I didn't count the pro-rated bonus, just the salary, thanks. I'm pretty sure Sal is aware of that money, so you are probably right that it does. Thx again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 I wonder if that includes the $2m they are getting back for Dareus suspension. The question that was asked was if TT is let go and Aaron retires and the tweet was Sal's response. I am assuming with all adjustments and credits (including TT, Dareus and A Williams) as he says it is about $45 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 The question that was asked was if TT is let go and Aaron retires and the tweet was Sal's response. I am assuming with all adjustments and credits (including TT, Dareus and A Williams) as he says it is about $45 million. Cool. Thx. Yeah, that makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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