thebandit27 Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 What I was getting at is since he had fewer coverage snaps it inflates those snaps as the teams who are passing well probably aren't that good. It's not like he shut down Brown but rather the Steelers used Bell to smash the Bills thus instead of his usual 15 attempts to Brown he only got 5. Meanwhile Gilmore performed poorly in taking down Bell..(as did everyone else) thus how everyone here is stating he is a poor tackler.. using a player I see all the time, Butler, he is a dang good cover corner but he also lays the wood down on RB as well so does Logan Ryan (who is not that good lol) Nobody is arguing that he's a good tackler...and regardless, that's not what I pay my cornerbacks to do; I want my corners to cover well. Re: Pittsburgh, they were close to their season average of 37 attempts per game against Buffalo, attempting 31 passes. It's quite telling that in the 18 coverage snaps that Brown played against Gilmore, he received only 5 targets (versus 6 in the 13 coverage snaps he played against everyone else), and caught only 2 balls. This is the type of critical analysis that folks seem to miss when evaluating cornerbacks. As to tackling, there are probably only 3 corners in the NFL that I would consider to be very good tacklers: Butler is one of them; Jason Verrett and Aqib Talib are the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Nobody is arguing that he's a good tackler...and regardless, that's not what I pay my cornerbacks to do; I want my corners to cover well. Re: Pittsburgh, they were close to their season average of 37 attempts per game against Buffalo, attempting 31 passes. It's quite telling that in the 18 coverage snaps that Brown played against Gilmore, he received only 5 targets (versus 6 in the 13 coverage snaps he played against everyone else), and caught only 2 balls. This is the type of critical analysis that folks seem to miss when evaluating cornerbacks. As to tackling, there are probably only 3 corners in the NFL that I would consider to be very good tacklers: Butler is one of them; Jason Verrett and Aqib Talib are the others. I think you're right, but I also think that Sherman is a very good tackler all in all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 I think you're right, but I also think that Sherman is a very good tackler all in all. I think he's good, yes...just not in the same class as the other 3...but we're well into opinion turf on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanNH Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Nobody is arguing that he's a good tackler...and regardless, that's not what I pay my cornerbacks to do; I want my corners to cover well. Re: Pittsburgh, they were close to their season average of 37 attempts per game against Buffalo, attempting 31 passes. It's quite telling that in the 18 coverage snaps that Brown played against Gilmore, he received only 5 targets (versus 6 in the 13 coverage snaps he played against everyone else), and caught only 2 balls. This is the type of critical analysis that folks seem to miss when evaluating cornerbacks. As to tackling, there are probably only 3 corners in the NFL that I would consider to be very good tacklers: Butler is one of them; Jason Verrett and Aqib Talib are the others. I am not arguing tha he is a bad corner, but rather an incomplete one. If he isn't going tackle well then he better have an island like revis use to when it comes to coverage skills lol. Also I wouldn't read to much into a snow,windy game against Brown either. Trust me in normal wether he get smoked occasionally by Brown. (He does it to everyone.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 I am not arguing tha he is a bad corner, but rather an incomplete one. If he isn't going tackle well then he better have an island like revis use to when it comes to coverage skills lol. Also I wouldn't read to much into a snow,windy game against Brown either. Trust me in normal wether he get smoked occasionally by Brown. (He does it to everyone.) I could not disagree more. In a perfect world, I'd like my corners to be shutdown against the pass and to be excellent tacklers. Approximately zero guys like that exist in the NFL, so you need to optimize. For me, corner is about coverage ability...period. A good tackling corner is a bonus. And I think you're misinterpreting my statements about Brown. I'm not one of the folks judging Gilmore off of one game--this is about his entire body of work. Brown managed to catch a 40-yard pass against Darby that game, so clearly it wasn't a case of inability to throw the ball. If I wanted to make my case about Gilmore from one game, I'd choose the work he put in against Beckham last year. Once again, 2 catches (plus 2 personal foul penalties that managed to elude the officials live, but got him fined later that week)...but again, that's not how I view players. The point is simple: we don't look through a straw to grade players. For every time someone comes in here and talks about one or two games--or better yet one or two plays from another slate of 14 games--I can point to the 90% of the time when he's excellent. And so I say again: 2 TDs allowed and a 67.7 passer rating against--including the craptastic performances against the Jets in Week 2 and NE in Week 8. For a guy who's primary job is to defend opposing receivers, that right there gets the job done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TC in St. Louis Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Keep him. He's a big time talent. We need more pass rush and a better scheme. He's too good to just let go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanNH Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 TheBandit, I would place Gilmore probably in the 11-15 rang as a CB. Good but not elite. I still take Butler,Sherman,Peterson, Talib,Newman,Norman,Harris Jr., Roger Cromartie, Newman over him and I know I am missing a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 TheBandit, I would place Gilmore probably in the 11-15 rang as a CB. Good but not elite. I still take Butler,Sherman,Peterson, Talib,Newman,Norman,Harris Jr., Roger Cromartie, Newman over him and I know I am missing a few. Interesting stat for you Patty, the Pats defense played against the weakest schedule of any team in the last six years. Happy Postseason! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Bills fans thought process on if a player is good: Does he make big money? Yes. - He is not good No - All-star, blue collar guy, embraces the city of Buffalo. the price tags look so out of this world huge to most average fans who have no idea what the cap has done recently or how the cba has shifted money to vets or what comparable players are making... expectations have gone through the roof for the "very good" players because of their pay being in the $10m plus range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PO16FFS Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 One thing for sure, u can call him tinman. He leaves his heart in the dressing room before games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 TheBandit, I would place Gilmore probably in the 11-15 rang as a CB. Good but not elite. I still take Butler,Sherman,Peterson, Talib,Newman,Norman,Harris Jr., Roger Cromartie, Newman over him and I know I am missing a few. hes in the glut of guys that are top 15 (so better than average #1) but not ELITE (top 2-3). wed be fooling ourselves to argue over who is 8th vs 11th on that list though. hes right in the very good group that have enough of a reputation that refs "trust" them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanNH Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Interesting stat for you Patty, the Pats defense played against the weakest schedule of any team in the last six years. Happy Postseason! Yup it was way easy schedule. But ya play who they put on the schedule. Not like college where you pick cupcakes to face lol. hes in the glut of guys that are top 15 (so better than average #1) but not ELITE (top 2-3). wed be fooling ourselves to argue over who is 8th vs 11th on that list though. hes right in the very good group that have enough of a reputation that refs "trust" them Very True! I seen a lot of worse CB out there and he is def top half of the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmur66 Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Whatever. He won't be here next year and he still can't tackle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 TheBandit, I would place Gilmore probably in the 11-15 rang as a CB. Good but not elite. I still take Butler,Sherman,Peterson, Talib,Newman,Norman,Harris Jr., Roger Cromartie, Newman over him and I know I am missing a few. You could mention Newman a few more times to make up for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanNH Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 You could mention Newman a few more times to make up for that. Lol I saw that! Hey I like Newman.... 😜 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 If you're afraid to tackle, playing defense in the NFL is a bad career choice. I want a DC who when watching 2016 film sees Gilmore "tackle" or attempt to "tackle"or whatever he calls it, or runs away from contact, throws his pencil and says (in an angry voice) "HELL NO! NO WAY THAT MAMBY PAMBY DUDE PLAYS ON MY DEFENSE." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM57 Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Since day one, a ton of posters on this board have found and and every reason to dislike Gilmore. His reaction to being drafted, injuries, tackling, "heart," allowing one catch, whatever. You're all going to be very disappointed next year when he's gone and Ronald Darby is getting absolutely roasted by opposing #1s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 If you're afraid to tackle, playing defense in the NFL is a bad career choice. I want a DC who when watching 2016 film sees Gilmore "tackle" or attempt to "tackle"or whatever he calls it, or runs away from contact, throws his pencil and says (in an angry voice) "HELL NO! NO WAY THAT MAMBY PAMBY DUDE PLAYS ON MY DEFENSE." So you want a DC that prefers corners that can tackle to corners that can cover? Hey, idea of the year: let's play Zach Brown at corner, since tackling is what we REALLY need on the boundary! Let's hope our next HC doesn't think that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmur66 Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 So you want a DC that prefers corners that can tackle to corners that can cover? Hey, idea of the year: let's play Zach Brown at corner, since tackling is what we REALLY need on the boundary! Let's hope our next HC doesn't think that way. Zach Brown won't be here next year and he can't tackle either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Zach Brown won't be here next year and he can't tackle either Which is why he had 18 tackles in a single game and made the all-pro team Though at least you have a chance to be half-right if he doesn't sign here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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