D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Not saying I think we should do this or not. Reading the tea leaves, Jim Kelly comments about Tyrod Taylor indicate he's not coming back. Jim is employed by PSE and I don't think he would have come on a strong as he did without reason. Pegula saying maybe he can win more games. And, Whaley doesn't sound like he's a supporter either. Where is the support? Having said that, this is starting to look more and more to me like a rebuild. I know Whaley said 7-9, not good enough, and we're close. My question is if Whaley brings in someone other than A Lynn, can it be considered anything other than a rebuild? Bringing in a new HC, likely inexperienced or unsuccessful before, and him bringing in his own QB either by draft, trade or FA is very unlikely to yield positive results for awhile. When you combine this with our defense needing to be fixed, it could be that Whaley has his new lease on life. If we are 4-12 next year it will be with perhaps a rookie coach and QB and I can hear the we like the direction were headed it takes time in this scenario. I'm torn about whether this has any merit? Maybe at the end of the day it ends up Lynn, Taylor and a new DC trying to get into the playoffs. I'm curious what you thoughtful posters out there think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 We aren't rebuilding. Whaley gets 1 more shot at this and if it fails then he is fired and we rebuild. I think it will be Lynn and keep Tyrod and hopefully bring in someone that can fix that defense! All signs point to going back to a 4-3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted January 5, 2017 Author Share Posted January 5, 2017 We aren't rebuilding. Whaley gets 1 more shot at this and if it fails then he is fired and we rebuild. I think it will be Lynn and keep Tyrod and hopefully bring in someone that can fix that defense! All signs point to going back to a 4-3 That's what I hope as well. Not sure I'm convinced yet though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 This team should be a rebuild. Our team leaders (AW, KW, EW) are either seriously injured or considering retiring. We have 25 players headed to free agency (likely including our CB1) and likely will return neither of our starting safeties. The non-aged "stars" we have all have issues, be they disciplinary or injury-related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted January 5, 2017 Author Share Posted January 5, 2017 This team should be a rebuild. Our team leaders (AW, KW, EW) are either seriously injured or considering retiring. We have 25 players headed to free agency (likely including our CB1) and likely will return neither of our starting safeties. The non-aged "stars" we have all have issues, be they disciplinary or injury-related. It sounds like you think Whaley could have a new lease on life too, and he is not going to a one and done. Barring more porn piotures that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 They won't give Whaley enough time for a full rebuild. He's on a short lease. He's got one maybe two seasons tops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 They won't give Whaley enough time for a full rebuild. He's on a short lease. He's got one maybe two seasons tops I disagree with Whaley's ideas on how build a team, but what you said is the number one reason why I think Whaley should have been gone with Ryan. Now we are stuck with a lame duck GM searching for a new coach. I think that a rebuild needs to take place. The roster and culture of this team need some major adjustments. I understand that some people think we are close due to us being around .500 the last few years. I see us as being more or less stuck at that record. The only way out is to move forward with a new plan. Now what we have is ownership unfairly expecting Whaley to pull a playoff appearance out of a hat over the next couple years. We don't even know who our QB will be next year, yet we can't go into a full rebuild mode because Whaley is on a playoffs or bust deal now. I think this limits what we'll be able to do as far as building the roster. Whaley will be basically forced to stick with what we have, and hope it's good enough to make the playoffs. I don't think it is. Keeping Whaley really limited what we can do over the next couple years imo. Now we have a GM who is forced to think very short term to save himself. This is not in the best interest of the franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted January 5, 2017 Author Share Posted January 5, 2017 I disagree with Whaley's ideas on how build a team, but what you said is the number one reason why I think Whaley should have been gone with Ryan. Now we are stuck with a lame duck GM searching for a new coach. I think that a rebuild needs to take place. The roster and culture of this team need some major adjustments. I understand that some people think we are close due to us being around .500 the last few years. I see us as being more or less stuck at that record. The only way out is to move forward with a new plan. Now what we have is ownership unfairly expecting Whaley to pull a playoff appearance out of a hat over the next couple years. We don't even know who our QB will be next year, yet we can't go into a full rebuild mode because Whaley is on a playoffs or bust deal now. I think this limits what we'll be able to do as far as building the roster. Whaley will be basically forced to stick with what we have, and hope it's good enough to make the playoffs. I don't think it is. Keeping Whaley really limited what we can do over the next couple years imo. Now we have a GM who is forced to think very short term to save himself. This is not in the best interest of the franchise. This is an argument in favor of Lynn being made full time HC. He is most familiar with situation and would just need to promote someone like Kromer to OC and bring in Gus Bradley to be DC. The amount of noise the media is throwing out is really causing me to read between the lines. And, I'm just not confident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBills Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Defensive retooling. Long term Offensive rebuild. But we are not at expansion level as some here would think. This is an argument in favor of Lynn being made full time HC. He is most familiar with situation and would just need to promote someone like Kromer to OC and bring in Gus Bradley to be DC. The amount of noise the media is throwing out is really causing me to read between the lines. And, I'm just not confident. Keep Kromer at OL coach and make him fixture regardless of who we bring in to run offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 It sounds like you think Whaley could have a new lease on life too, and he is not going to a one and done. Barring more porn piotures that is. That's not what I said at all. When did I say anything about Whaley? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billieve420 Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 (edited) If Lynn is not hired then I don't see the purpose in keeping Tyrod next year. Might as well blow it up and let Cardale start next year. Sign a veteran to back him up with a cheap deal. If we tank we are in good position in 2018 to land a QB. I would still draft a QB this year as well and continue to stack the position until we find one long term. Edited January 5, 2017 by billieve420 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 They won't give Whaley enough time for a full rebuild. He's on a short lease. He's got one maybe two seasons tops I'm usually wrong about most things, but I simply cant believe this. And this certainly isnt the first time Ive read it. If you guys really think Whaley only has 1 year to win or is fired, then the Pegulas are dumber than I thought, building a loser, and might as well fire him now. If he really only has 1 year, NO coach would come into that situation. And that isnt on Doug, but the Pegulas. Everyone should be looking to build a long term solution. Starting immediately. If they think anyone is on the fence and could be gone next year, rip that band aid off now. Otherwise, we're looking at a losing season next year, a complete rebuild of the front office, and another 3 years of rebuilding from square one. That'll be 5 years before we even have a chance. I dont buy it. I think that both the HC and therefore Whaley, will get 3 years. Deserved or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted January 5, 2017 Author Share Posted January 5, 2017 That's not what I said at all. When did I say anything about Whaley? My bad. I was using my line of thinking in that he is not gone after 1 year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 I think whether the team is in a "rebuilding" mode or not is still up in the air. If the Bills tender the $15.5m option on Taylor, definitely not. Doing that locks Taylor as the starter for next year. Not tendering the option by the March deadline while leaving him on the roster triggers the $27.5m guarantee, which locks him in as the starter for 2017 & 2018. If the Bills restructure his deal in any way, they're basically going with him for at least one year. The only move that says they're rebuilding is releasing him. If that happens, I would look for many other similar "parting of ways" moves for the team, such as letting the Gilmore girl hit free agency.Now if the question is whether they should be in rebuilding mode, that's different altogether. This season feels like a tale of two teams to me. They won some games that they had no business winning and lost some games that they definitely shouldn't have lost. It didn't feel like they were lacking in talent, so much as they were lacking in execution. It's hard to narrow the blame down to coaching or players, or perhaps a combination of both. I personally believe that Taylor should be back at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSOL Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 I dont think its a question of if we need to do a rebuild, i think its a question of when. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezertbill Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Not saying I think we should do this or not. Reading the tea leaves, Jim Kelly comments about Tyrod Taylor indicate he's not coming back. Jim is employed by PSE and I don't think he would have come on a strong as he did without reason. Pegula saying maybe he can win more games. And, Whaley doesn't sound like he's a supporter either. Where is the support? Having said that, this is starting to look more and more to me like a rebuild. I know Whaley said 7-9, not good enough, and we're close. My question is if Whaley brings in someone other than A Lynn, can it be considered anything other than a rebuild? Bringing in a new HC, likely inexperienced or unsuccessful before, and him bringing in his own QB either by draft, trade or FA is very unlikely to yield positive results for awhile. When you combine this with our defense needing to be fixed, it could be that Whaley has his new lease on life. If we are 4-12 next year it will be with perhaps a rookie coach and QB and I can hear the we like the direction were headed it takes time in this scenario. I'm torn about whether this has any merit? Maybe at the end of the day it ends up Lynn, Taylor and a new DC trying to get into the playoffs. I'm curious what you thoughtful posters out there think? We have too much talent to be in rebuild. I believe we have a winning roster. Just need someone who can improve our defense schematically, advance Tyrod's growth, and be able to make in game decisions better than RR. With the right coaching no question we can be a playoff team next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwight in philly Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 We have too much talent to be in rebuild. I believe we have a winning roster. Just need someone who can improve our defense schematically, advance Tyrod's growth, and be able to make in game decisions better than RR. With the right coaching no question we can be a playoff team next season. ,ditto .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Whether this is a rebuild or not, I think we can all agree on one indisputable fact: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 In order for the team to succeed under Whaley, as this is his final shot, the Bills are going to need to acquire a good QB somehow. The first option would be to trade for a aging veteran, such as Brees or Rivers. This option most likely would cost the Bills at least two 1st round draft picks, as well as other picks (maybe players on the roster as well). Second option would be to wait and see if Romo becomes a FA and go after him. Third option would be to trade for a team's backup that Whaley feels could turn into a good starter (something John Butler failed at with Rob Johnson). This option would cost a high draft pick and maybe more. The fourth option is through the draft. Failure to get a good QB will result in Whaley getting fired over the next year or two and possibly his hand picked HC. At that time, I suspect the Pegula's will reach out to either Bill Polian or Tom Coughlin, hire one of those two to oversee football operations and they will tear down the roster and start the rebuild. So, realistically, the playoff drought will extend to 20 years or more before the Bills finally make the playoffs again. Maybe by that time Brady will be retired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted January 5, 2017 Author Share Posted January 5, 2017 We have too much talent to be in rebuild. I believe we have a winning roster. Just need someone who can improve our defense schematically, advance Tyrod's growth, and be able to make in game decisions better than RR. With the right coaching no question we can be a playoff team next season. Yes I tend to lean in that direction. I'm starting to the think a simple make Lynn HC, hopefully brings Bradley and Tyrod back, Kromer to OC and probably draft the best safety we can. That seems to provide a fair amount of continuity too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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