Fan in Chicago Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 The Bills weren't loaded though. People have to take off the homer glasses here. They had a QB battle that lasted all through training camp. What loaded team has that? The Bills had a pretty good roster. Gruden took over a team that was already a perennial playoff team that couldn't get over the hump. That isn't at all what Rex had. The Bills also had an unusually healthy 2014 which didn't repeat in 2015. Sometimes the Ball bounces that way wrt injuries. As to what his style etc lead me to believe 201 will be better.... Ask yourself - is the Bills team better this year than it was last year? Imo it is. That shows improvement and says to me that the arrow is pointing in the right direction. I would like to see if it continues. I have said time and again if the Bills finish 7-9 fire him and I won't say boo about it. 9-7 though and I think it would be a dumb move. You do make logical points. However, I would argue that the 2013 and 2014 defenses were indeed very good and loaded. Ryan could have taken those pieces to build on instead of remolding the D to fit his style. Maybe the D may become what he intended in 2017. But that is not the makings of a good coach. As is known, the window for success is unusually small in the NFL. Coaches have been able to come in and get success pretty quickly (Ben McAdoo, Dan Quinn) so it was entirely justified to expect that after 2 offseasons, the 2016 Bills would make the playoffs. They still might, but it doesnt look promising. I expected a more decided march towards the playoffs instead of beating up on hapless teams and hoping for the chips to fall in our favor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWATeam Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 One more year for Rex. Get Ragland back, a full offseason for Shaq and add a safety or two. No more excuses after that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 You asked me what I thought a standard passing attack was. P.S. That was one of many reasons why I think he has NOT been given a fair chance. If Rex were given the time that I believe every HC should have and did not have all of the handicaps that I have mentioned, then we could have a fair evaluation. As it stands now, I think he and his staff have done well given all of these handicaps as well as the distractions that are posed by this story that is promoted by, for example, Jason La Canfora, Vic C, others at TBN, WGR, and people on this board. P.P.S. If we went back in your timeline, how far back were you raising the issue of Rex getting fired? To which you did not answer "a top 15 one," but made a weak assumption. And you refused to answer my other question, to which I will ask again. Next year, it is very likely we will not have a top 15 passing attack. we probably have some injuries. How could we ever fire Rex with those two factors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 You do make logical points. However, I would argue that the 2013 and 2014 defenses were indeed very good and loaded. Ryan could have taken those pieces to build on instead of remolding the D to fit his style. Maybe the D may become what he intended in 2017. But that is not the makings of a good coach. As is known, the window for success is unusually small in the NFL. Coaches have been able to come in and get success pretty quickly (Ben McAdoo, Dan Quinn) so it was entirely justified to expect that after 2 offseasons, the 2016 Bills would make the playoffs. They still might, but it doesnt look promising. I expected a more decided march towards the playoffs instead of beating up on hapless teams and hoping for the chips to fall in our favor. I think (emphasis on think ) that he tried to build on it and that is where the comments of blending the defense came from Rex. To me making the playoffs is a tough barometer in the East. The Bills have to play one of the best teams in the NFL twice a year. So while other teams can have a slightly off year and perhaps still win their division that doesn't happen in the East. You have to win the WC while taking 2 conference losses. It would be nice to compete with NE but they currently sport one of the best QBs and best HCs of all time. Currently 3 of the top 8 droughts in the NFL are all AFC East teams. Rex has had mild success against the Pats* which means those games aren't 2 automatic losses as they have been in years past. I agree with you that hoping for the chips to fall in our favor sucks and I don't want it to be that way forever but it is the current predicament. As an aside to your examples (I know that there are certainly examples of guys coming in and quickly turning it around) Quinn went 8-8 in his first year with Atl McAdoo was the OC before taking over HC duties this year and the Giants loaded up on D in FA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 To which you did not answer "a top 15 one," but made a weak assumption. And you refused to answer my other question, to which I will ask again. Next year, it is very likely we will not have a top 15 passing attack. we probably have some injuries. How could we ever fire Rex with those two factors? I look at everything in context. I have listed some of the reasons why I believe he has not been given a fair chance. If Rex is the coach next year and he does not have all of the handicaps that I mentioned, we can then judge him fairly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 I look at everything in context. I have listed some of the reasons why I believe he has not been given a fair chance. If Rex is the coach next year and he does not have all of the handicaps that I mentioned, we can then judge him fairly. I guess my point is that I would be shocked if Rex doesn't have most of those handicaps next year Pete, along with half of the HC's in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crowing Rooster Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 I voted to keep Rex because I am not a fan of firing coaches. Injuries to key players and suspensions was a big factor to ware we are now. I think we are only a few players away from being a true playoff contender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 I voted to retain Rex next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Defense Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 The Bills are regressing, despite good talent, and show almost no signs of becoming a consistently solid team. They look they are in disarray, unprepared during the game as they bungle the basics in NFL team in game communication. They adjust very poorly, once again, in the second half of games, whether they are behind or in the lead. The Bills had an excellent defense just before Ryan took over, one the best in the league, and Ryan's coaching has made them a below average defense, inconsistent, with no real identity, and floundering, getting weaker and weaker, even more inconsistent, as the season progresses. That is coaching, almost always. I cannot imagine how any Bills fans would think bringing Rex Ryan back for more of the same is a viable option. The argument that 'continuity is needed"/"don't want to keep changing coaches"/"he deserves one more year, they're close" do not add up in any way. An unorganized, unprepared, inconsistent, regressing team is what we will continue to see as long as Ryan is the coach. He is lazy, likely incompetent, and the Bills defense is looking more and more like that of New Orleans the last few years, before the other Ryan was fired. Enough is enough. Ryan deserved to be fired last year, will be fired this year, no matter how the Bills finish. Happy New Year, Bills fans, as there can then be a little hope, again. There is none as long as Ryan is the head coach; crystal clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Defense Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 Rex may have f-d up a great D, but he's got a #1 pick next year and the team will improve with consistency. I think about all those horrible coaches the last decade and the stupid decisions they would make (punting from the 40) or stubbornness in not releasing coordinators (Wanstadt!), Rex really doesn't make those frustrating game day decisions - he's pretty good. Ok, we have penalties and some time management issues, but overall, are we ever screaming at the TV for obviously stupid calls? Give the guy another year. So, the fact that he fu***** up a "great D" is overridden, somehow, by the fact that the Bills have their own "#1 pick next year" in the draft and that other coaches were so bad that you yelled at the TV, but don't yell at Ryan? Zero, and I mean nothing at all, except the not yelling at the TV idea, to in any way back up "the team will improve with consistency". The Bills have been consistently weak, underachieving, so wouldn't we expect more of that , and more of Ryan fu***** up a "great D"? You want consistency like this? Makes no sense at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 So, the fact that he fu***** up a "great D" is overridden, somehow, by the fact that the Bills have their own "#1 pick next year" in the draft and that other coaches were so bad that you yelled at the TV, but don't yell at Ryan? Zero, and I mean nothing at all, except the not yelling at the TV idea, to in any way back up "the team will improve with consistency". The Bills have been consistently weak, underachieving, so wouldn't we expect more of that , and more of Ryan fu***** up a "great D"? You want consistency like this? Makes no sense at all. There's that "great D" talk again. To recap: 2010: horrible defense 2011: horrible defense 2012: historically horrible defense 2013: below average defense 2014: very good defense 2015: average/below average defense 2016: average/above average defense This notion that Rex Ryan dismantled some kind of legacy defense is extremely misleading. Credit be to Schwartz for his one magical year (in which virtually nobody got injured and they wilted when it mattered most, but still). Rex Ryan did not "ruin" a "great defense." He took a defense that WAS BAD then over performed for a season and has since been middling to good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 There's that "great D" talk again. To recap: 2010: horrible defense 2011: horrible defense 2012: historically horrible defense 2013: below average defense 2014: very good defense 2015: average/below average defense 2016: average/above average defense This notion that Rex Ryan dismantled some kind of legacy defense is extremely misleading. Credit be to Schwartz for his one magical year (in which virtually nobody got injured and they wilted when it mattered most, but still). Rex Ryan did not "ruin" a "great defense." He took a defense that WAS BAD then over performed for a season and has since been middling to good. There are not a lot of injuries on this D either...... Aaron Williams....while I admit huge....thats it. This defense is healthy and giving up 28 points a game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWATeam Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 There are not a lot of injuries on this D either...... Aaron Williams....while I admit huge....thats it. This defense is healthy and giving up 28 points a game Not right now, but we did miss Dareus and Shaq for significant time. Ragland for the year as well. That combined with Aaron is significant, it's a good amount of our most talented players on D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 There's that "great D" talk again. To recap: 2010: horrible defense 2011: horrible defense 2012: historically horrible defense 2013: below average defense 2014: very good defense 2015: average/below average defense 2016: average/above average defense This notion that Rex Ryan dismantled some kind of legacy defense is extremely misleading. Credit be to Schwartz for his one magical year (in which virtually nobody got injured and they wilted when it mattered most, but still). Rex Ryan did not "ruin" a "great defense." He took a defense that WAS BAD then over performed for a season and has since been middling to good. What does the 2010 defense have to do with the 2016 defense, pray tell? Kyle is the only player the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 Not right now, but we did miss Dareus and Shaq for significant time. Ragland for the year as well. That combined with Aaron is significant, it's a good amount of our most talented players on D your right I left out Marcel We didnt miss Shaq cuz Lorax was killing it..... Ragland is a wild card...we need to watch him play before we can even say he would be an upgrade (I think he will) but the fact remains....our secondary is HORRIBLE.....much of it based off safety play. We actually MISS Searcy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 We actually MISS Searcy Big time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWATeam Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 your right I left out Marcel We didnt miss Shaq cuz Lorax was killing it..... Ragland is a wild card...we need to watch him play before we can even say he would be an upgrade (I think he will) but the fact remains....our secondary is HORRIBLE.....much of it based off safety play. We actually MISS Searcy Besides whatever we are going to do at QB, fixing the safety position has to be priority #1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 What does the 2010 defense have to do with the 2016 defense, pray tell? Kyle is the only player the same. context alludes you, per usual just looking for an argument, per usual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 (edited) context alludes you, per usual just looking for an argument, per usual Context of the 2010 defense, with 1 player of 11 (or 13-15 if talking about key contributors) and 4 DC's ago, having ANYTHING to do with our expectations in 2016? Are you one of those dudes who gets mad when they hold the last 20 years of futility against the current Bills and the organization today? Keep it relevant, homie. Edited December 23, 2016 by jmc12290 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Hansen Forever Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 Are you kidding me does everyone want more of the same next year As Donald Trump says, "It's time to drain the swamp". You guys are killing me. Keep Rex around for another year of mediocrity? He is nothing but a blowhard and now with his fat bro around, they are sucking the wind and life out of Western NY. Kick their lazy asses off to some other stupid team. Bring in a winning head coach. Not some lame brain that wins on occasion, but a superbowl winning coach. It's been over 20 years folks, get rid of the front office and start again! I'll be long dead at this rate before they make it into the Superbowl again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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