True/False on Taylor & Offense

[Alphadawg7]

1. Taylor's stats as a QB are NOT impressive: False. One, anyone who analyzes Taylor by ONLY considering his passing stats either doesn't understand football or is cherry picking information to sell an agenda. Two, Taylor does a lot of damage running the football, so to disregard the impact he has as a running QB by focusing on just his passing totals is categorically inaccurate. His running ability combined with his passing is what makes him a dangerous weapon teams must game plan for every week. The lack of receiving weapons has hindered the overall passing game, but Taylor has shown the ability to throw the deep ball when we have players on the field who can actually get separation and catch it.

 

2. Taylor is an effective passer: False. There are those who think he is only being hampered by injuries to the WR's. True, its had a definite impact like I said above, no denying that. But at the same time, Taylor has to own the fact he has often not seen players down field who were open and needs to see the field better as he is leaving too many opportunities on the field each week. He needs to get more instinctive and let the ball fly more.

 

-My Theory on #2: I think the fact that we are such a dominant running team, between Taylor and the RB's, has actually made Taylor err more on the side of caution and not take more risks. Rather than risk a turnover, he seems content to make up some yards with his legs or on a short check down to protect the ball figuring our run game can break out on any given play. I also think he doesnt trust Clay, who is often the guy he doesnt see open, and I personally think it has a lot to do with Clay not bringing it every play. Many times I have seen Clay dog it on his routes, critical routes on 3rd down where the play didn't complete because he half arsed his route or effort.

 

3. The offense isn't good enough: False. We are one of the highest scoring offenses in the league since we fired Roman, so there isn't much more to write here. And we have accomplished that with MANY injuries to our best players on offense and the offensive line. I mean the offenses top 3 weapons in Watkins, Woods, and McCoy have missed a lot of time collectively this year, and also played hurt in multiple games they did play in. Plus injuries to the OL and the other WR's have compounded it further.

 

4. Watkins is a bust: False. He had some bad luck, but when on the field he is easily one of the 5 best WR's in football. He was top 3 last year in just about every category once he was healthy. The long ball to him this game is exactly what he brings to the table. He doesn't need much separation to be "open" and Taylor and him seem to have a rhythm that Taylor just doesn't have with the other WR's. I think it has to do with the other WR's struggle to consistently get separation, run good routes, or keep their feet. Sammy just seems to glide out there and is an exceptional route runner, so Taylors timing just always seems to be at a different level with a healthy Sammy versus our other guys or even a slowed Sammy who isn't 100%.

 

All in all...this offense is good enough to take us to the playoffs assuming Sammy stays on the field and is healthy. If we can get a healthy Sammy, Woods, McCoy and Harvin on the field at the same time, this offense can be even better.

 

The defense to me is the real concern even though it seems that Taylor dominates the conversations on this board. I wonder if we even win the game yesterday if Ivory doesn't get hurt because he was running all over the defense with ease. Our CB's are shaky at best as well. Every week it just feels like only one portion of the D comes to play, too often they just don't put it all together. I think the biggest culprit is the pass D as we seem to keep having to drop more help and bring less pressure up front to make up for their struggles, and that opens up running lanes for the backs and QB's.

[bobobonators]

The pass rush has kinda disappeared. Thank god Dareus is back. Hughes has not really done anything in weeks.

 

I feel that Gilmore has been playing better lately.

I think a concerning stat that i read somewhere is that the Bills red zone Defense is one of worst in NFL.

I think the return of Dareus will help our red zone D. Though it didnt help yesterday.

[John from Riverside]

Someone said last week that Taylor is a incredible athlete with very good arm talent that has trouble reading defenses.....

 

I think so far this is an accurate take..and the bills are hoping that last one develops....and consider the first 2 good enough given the scheme.

 

Tyrod doesnt throw it if he thinks its gonna get picked.....he is very conservative because we are running the ball well and controlling the game.

 

We get into trouble when we get in shootouts.....that is gonna have to change.

[bobobonators]

Someone said last week that Taylor is a incredible athlete with very good arm talent that has trouble reading defenses.....

 

I think so far this is an accurate take..and the bills are hoping that last one develops....and consider the first 2 good enough given the scheme.

 

Tyrod doesnt throw it if he thinks its gonna get picked.....he is very conservative because we are running the ball well and controlling the game.

 

We get into trouble when we get in shootouts.....that is gonna have to change.

What we need to change is consistently win games where we score more than 25. If we do that we'll easily be in the playoffs or fighting for the playoffs on a yearly basis.

 

Going into the Raiders game, are we more concerned that this offense will not come close to 30pts or that our D cant keep the Raiders under 30/35pts? Id be more worried of the latter.

[BuffaloFan68]

This week against the Raiders is the game where we will see what Tyrod can do in a shoot-out. 300+ yards and a victory (total yards, doesn't all have to be his arm) and he may very well be on his way to being the QB of our future. A loss without some good stats will leave us staring at the same question mark at QB that we've been staring at for years. I would love to see Tyrod put up 400+ yards and prove the nay-sayers wrong but we shall see.

GO BILLS!!!!!

[Alphadawg7]

The pass rush has kinda disappeared. Thank god Dareus is back. Hughes has not really done anything in weeks.

 

I feel that Gilmore has been playing better lately.

I think a concerning stat that i read somewhere is that the Bills red zone Defense is one of worst in NFL.

I think the return of Dareus will help our red zone D. Though it didnt help yesterday.

 

Agreed...but like I said in my OP, I think the pass rush decline has been because of them trying to make up for deficiencies in the pass defense do to our struggling secondary.

 

Was there ever an explanation why Dareus was on the sidelines most the last 2 drives? During the game they said it was confirmed that he wasnt hurt, so not sure if that was ever explained.

What we need to change is consistently win games where we score more than 25. If we do that we'll easily be in the playoffs or fighting for the playoffs on a yearly basis.

 

Going into the Raiders game, are we more concerned that this offense will not come close to 30pts or that our D cant keep the Raiders under 30/35pts? Id be more worried of the latter.

 

I think its pretty fair to say we likely score 30+ against the Raiders. We are averaging in the high 20's already, and against that defense we should be looking at 30+ point game...the scary thing is, like you said, it still may not be enough for a win if our D doesn't get pressure on Carr, who IMO is a top 3 MVP candidate right now.

[bobobonators]

 

Agreed...but like I said in my OP, I think the pass rush decline has been because of them trying to make up for deficiencies in the pass defense do to our struggling secondary.

 

Was there ever an explanation why Dareus was on the sidelines most the last 2 drives? During the game they said it was confirmed that he wasnt hurt, so not sure if that was ever explained.

 

 

I think its pretty fair to say we likely score 30+ against the Raiders. We are averaging in the high 20's already, and against that defense we should be looking at 30+ point game...the scary thing is, like you said, it still may not be enough for a win if our D doesn't get pressure on Carr, who IMO is a top 3 MVP candidate right now.

Carr is an absolute stud and he has the weapons to compliment his arm. Lets hope his pinky keeps swelling! Lol

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Carr is an absolute stud and he has the weapons to compliment his arm. Lets hope his pinky keeps swelling! Lol

 

An actual QB as opposed to a glorified RB.

 

That's what we'll be watching this week.

[bobobonators]

 

An actual QB as opposed to a glorified RB.

 

That's what we'll be watching this week.

Ok.

[PromoTheRobot]

The pass rush has kinda disappeared. Thank god Dareus is back. Hughes has not really done anything in weeks.

 

I feel that Gilmore has been playing better lately.

I think a concerning stat that i read somewhere is that the Bills red zone Defense is one of worst in NFL.

I think the return of Dareus will help our red zone D. Though it didnt help yesterday.

I think they are dropping more players into coverage so there is less pass rush now.

[section122]

 

An actual QB as opposed to a glorified RB.

 

That's what we'll be watching this week.

 

With 2(!) top 10 drafted WRs. Carr is playing well but that receiving corps is scary. Crabtree has finally become what he was supposed to be and Amari Cooper is playing like the top 5 pick that he is. If Darby can't go it could spell bad things for the Bills.

[BringBackOrton]

1. Taylor's stats as a QB are NOT impressive: False. One, anyone who analyzes Taylor by ONLY considering his passing stats either doesn't understand football or is cherry picking information to sell an agenda. Two, Taylor does a lot of damage running the football, so to disregard the impact he has as a running QB by focusing on just his passing totals is categorically inaccurate. His running ability combined with his passing is what makes him a dangerous weapon teams must game plan for every week. The lack of receiving weapons has hindered the overall passing game, but Taylor has shown the ability to throw the deep ball when we have players on the field who can actually get separation and catch it.

 

2. Taylor is an effective passer: False. There are those who think he is only being hampered by injuries to the WR's. True, its had a definite impact like I said above, no denying that. But at the same time, Taylor has to own the fact he has often not seen players down field who were open and needs to see the field better as he is leaving too many opportunities on the field each week. He needs to get more instinctive and let the ball fly more.

 

-My Theory on #2: I think the fact that we are such a dominant running team, between Taylor and the RB's, has actually made Taylor err more on the side of caution and not take more risks. Rather than risk a turnover, he seems content to make up some yards with his legs or on a short check down to protect the ball figuring our run game can break out on any given play. I also think he doesnt trust Clay, who is often the guy he doesnt see open, and I personally think it has a lot to do with Clay not bringing it every play. Many times I have seen Clay dog it on his routes, critical routes on 3rd down where the play didn't complete because he half arsed his route or effort.

 

3. The offense isn't good enough: False. We are one of the highest scoring offenses in the league since we fired Roman, so there isn't much more to write here. And we have accomplished that with MANY injuries to our best players on offense and the offensive line. I mean the offenses top 3 weapons in Watkins, Woods, and McCoy have missed a lot of time collectively this year, and also played hurt in multiple games they did play in. Plus injuries to the OL and the other WR's have compounded it further.

 

4. Watkins is a bust: False. He had some bad luck, but when on the field he is easily one of the 5 best WR's in football. He was top 3 last year in just about every category once he was healthy. The long ball to him this game is exactly what he brings to the table. He doesn't need much separation to be "open" and Taylor and him seem to have a rhythm that Taylor just doesn't have with the other WR's. I think it has to do with the other WR's struggle to consistently get separation, run good routes, or keep their feet. Sammy just seems to glide out there and is an exceptional route runner, so Taylors timing just always seems to be at a different level with a healthy Sammy versus our other guys or even a slowed Sammy who isn't 100%.

 

All in all...this offense is good enough to take us to the playoffs assuming Sammy stays on the field and is healthy. If we can get a healthy Sammy, Woods, McCoy and Harvin on the field at the same time, this offense can be even better.

 

The defense to me is the real concern even though it seems that Taylor dominates the conversations on this board. I wonder if we even win the game yesterday if Ivory doesn't get hurt because he was running all over the defense with ease. Our CB's are shaky at best as well. Every week it just feels like only one portion of the D comes to play, too often they just don't put it all together. I think the biggest culprit is the pass D as we seem to keep having to drop more help and bring less pressure up front to make up for their struggles, and that opens up running lanes for the backs and QB's.

1. If you total his rushing and passing number, he is still mediocre. And we have a terrible deep pass game this season.

 

2. Agree.

 

3. We still have far too many 3 and outs and failed conversions. With a pretty healthy OL and McCoy having a career year, I'm struggling to see how you are casting "blame" on them for offensive woes instead of the below average QB who is BRUTAL on third down and against the blitz.

 

4. Who cares what he's labeled? He isn't contributing enough on this team due to a host of factors, mostly his injury and our QB inadequacies. More nails in Taylor's coffin if he can't use a "top 5 WR."

 

This offense will be "good enough to get us to the playoffs," when we have a dominant defense. We don't have that. We'll be on the outside looking in unless the D or O really steps up over the next 5 weeks.

Edited November 28, 2016 by jmc12290

[dave mcbride]

I think they are dropping more players into coverage so there is less pass rush now.

I agree. It seems pretty clear to me that Rex/Rob don't trust the secondary much at all. I understand why. Outside of Gilmore and Graham, who are good (if not great) players, you're seeing a lot of very marginal play.

[Alphadawg7]

1. If you total his rushing and passing number, he is still mediocre. And we have a terrible deep pass game this season.

 

2. Agree.

 

3. We still have far too many 3 and outs and failed conversions. With a pretty healthy OL and McCoy having a career year, I'm struggling to see how you are casting "blame" on them for offensive woes instead of the below average QB who is BRUTAL on third down and against the blitz.

 

4. Who cares what he's labeled? He isn't contributing enough on this team due to a host of factors, mostly his injury and our QB inadequacies. More nails in Taylor's coffin if he can't use a "top 5 WR."

 

This offense will be "good enough to get us to the playoffs," when we have a dominant defense. We don't have that. We'll be on the outside looking in unless the D or O really steps up over the next 5 weeks.

 

 

1. I disagree. You don't rate rushing yards the same as passing yards. So the fact you are just totaling them together is not how you value the QB's ability to run. There is a reason people point to 300 yards passing as a barometer for a good game throwing, and 100 yards rushing as a good game running. To combine them equally as a total to compare to just passing yards devalues his production in running the football.

 

2. You agreed, obviously because it was critical of Taylor.

 

3. We dont have a pretty healthy OL, and McCoy has missed a game and barely played in 2 others. Bills were 1-2 in those games, and in the one win the offense struggled without him. And I did not blame our offensive woes on anyone, you replied to a comment where I said it is FALSE that our offense isnt good enough. This offense is one of the highest scoring teams in the league since firing Roman. And that is despite no Sammy, McCoy missing a game and most of 2 others, Woods missing multiple games and playing hurt, Harvin having no impact and out already, injuries to our other WR's, losing Wood, etc etc. So the point is, this team with all those injuries is still one of the highest scoring teams in the league right now.

 

4. You are wrong on this point too. Sammy was top 3 in most categories last year once he got healthy. So to say he isnt contributing because of poor QB play is false, because he had a great season with Taylor once Sammy was healthy last year and we were one of the top deep passing teams in the league. The only thing holding Sammy back is his foot, not QB play. And now that his foot is better, lets hope it stays that way because Sammy and Taylor already connected on a beautiful deep ball this past weekend in limited snaps by Sammy.

[fridge]

A lot of mental gymnastics are required to get people on board with Tyrod being anything other than an average or below average quarterback, sorry. I would like him to just take over a game for once and just shut everyone up. In order to do that, you need to take some risks, and I don't see that happening.

[BringBackOrton]

 

 

1. I disagree. You don't rate rushing yards the same as passing yards. So the fact you are just totaling them together is not how you value the QB's ability to run. There is a reason people point to 300 yards passing as a barometer for a good game throwing, and 100 yards rushing as a good game running. To combine them equally as a total to compare to just passing yards devalues his production in running the football.

 

2. You agreed, obviously because it was critical of Taylor.

 

3. We dont have a pretty healthy OL, and McCoy has missed a game and barely played in 2 others. Bills were 1-2 in those games, and in the one win the offense struggled without him. And I did not blame our offensive woes on anyone, you replied to a comment where I said it is FALSE that our offense isnt good enough. This offense is one of the highest scoring teams in the league since firing Roman. And that is despite no Sammy, McCoy missing a game and most of 2 others, Woods missing multiple games and playing hurt, Harvin having no impact and out already, injuries to our other WR's, losing Wood, etc etc. So the point is, this team with all those injuries is still one of the highest scoring teams in the league right now.

 

4. You are wrong on this point too. Sammy was top 3 in most categories last year once he got healthy. So to say he isnt contributing because of poor QB play is false, because he had a great season with Taylor once Sammy was healthy last year and we were one of the top deep passing teams in the league. The only thing holding Sammy back is his foot, not QB play. And now that his foot is better, lets hope it stays that way because Sammy and Taylor already connected on a beautiful deep ball this past weekend in limited snaps by Sammy.

1. Fair enough. But those numbers are also based on number of attempts. 30+ passes versus 20 carries. A normal good YPA passing is 7, and YPC is 5. So let's multiply Taylor's rushing totals by 1.4 to match a good passing total and still see where it lands hm. Right at 20th, just above an unadjusted Cam Newton and below an unadjusted Mariota. Still mediocre.

 

2. Funny how critical and accurate dance along the same line...

 

3. We are missing 1 starter on our rushing attack, that facet of our offense is "unhealthy?" Have you seen the rest of the NFL?

 

4. Sammy would've contributed more with good QB play yesterday. It's a common theme. He's waiting around wide open for passes that aren't coming. The tape doesn't lie.

Edited November 28, 2016 by jmc12290

[bobobonators]

A lot of mental gymnastics are required to get people on board with Tyrod being anything other than an average or below average quarterback, sorry. I would like him to just take over a game for once and just shut everyone up. In order to do that, you need to take some risks, and I don't see that happening.

The only mental gymnastics being done are by people constantly looking for reasons to criticize. Plenty of players/teams/coaches/and writers within the NFL have said great things about Tyrod.

[BringBackOrton]

A lot of mental gymnastics are required to get people on board with Tyrod being anything other than an average or below average quarterback, sorry. I would like him to just take over a game for once and just shut everyone up. In order to do that, you need to take some risks, and I don't see that happening.

Reminds me of EJ...

[bobobonators]

1. Fair enough. But those numbers are also based on number of attempts. 30+ passes versus 20 carries. A normal good YPA passing is 7, and YPC is 5. So let's multiply Taylor's rushing totals by 1.4 to match a good passing total and still see where it lands hm. Right at 20th, just above an unadjusted Cam Newton and below an unadjusted Mariota. Still mediocre.

 

2. Funny how critical and accurate dance along the same line...

 

3. We are missing 1 player on our rushing attack, that facet of our offense is "unhealthy?" Have you seen the rest of the NFL?

 

4. Sammy would've contributed more with good QB play yesterday. It's a common theme. He's waiting around wide open for passes that aren't coming. The tape doesn't lie.

Top 10 in the NFL in points scored since 2015. Top 10 again this year. Half of those games without either Sammy or Shady. The end.

[KDIGGZ]

Tyrod can't keep up this pace of running and taking shots. He will get injured and over time get slower and slower and less allusive and eventually he will be Michael Vick from the Steelers a couple years ago. He needs to learn how to be a pocket passer which he clearly is not. The offense works, for now, because he is so athletic. But he hangs on to the ball too long and can't anticipate throws. He is not a franchise QB