Shady's value to the Bills...

[What a Tuel]

 

Yes it was an aberration.

 

That year Nick Foles threw 27 TD passes and only 2 interceptions.

 

McCoy averaged 5 ypr that season.

 

Foles came back to earth with a 13/10 ratio and McCoy reverted to his 4.2 ypr figure of 2012.

 

So in the other 3 of the last 4 years McCoy's ypr has been between 4.2-4.4.

 

In case you were unaware, 4.2 is the league average per rushing play...........

 

And to further illustrate my point...... in 2014 he had the LOWEST yards per touch of any qualifying player in the entire NFL.

 

Explosive/dynamic/big-play........these things ABSOLUTELY imply a player who will have high yards per rush/touch numbers and TD numbers by virtue of huge plays inflating the overall average.

 

He's shifty and fun to watch.......I enjoy watching him make people miss.......but people confuse that with him being a big play guy.

 

In the last 2 out of 4 years he was injured for a quarter of the season. So your 3 out of the last 4 years nonsense is cherry picking stats.

 

2009 4.1 YPC *Rookie

2010 5.2 YPC

2011 4.8 YPC

2012 4.2 YPC (Injured, missed a quarter of season)

2013 5.1 YPC

2014 4.2 YPC (Only year outside of Rookie season where he wasn't injured, and then didn't perform up to his standard. He was then traded)

2015 4.4 YPC (Injured, missed a quarter of season)

 

As for lowest yards per touch out of everyone in 2014, let me see a source for that. This site has him 22nd. Above Chris Ivory (198 carries) Alfred Morris (265 carries), Giovani Bernard (168 carries), Matt Forte (266 carries) etc...

 

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/rush-yards-per-attempt/2014/

Edited May 30, 2016 by What a Tuel

[BADOLBILZ]

 

In the last 2 out of 4 years he was injured for a quarter of the season. So your 3 out of the last 4 years nonsense is cherry picking stats.

 

2009 4.1 YPC *Rookie

2010 5.2 YPC

2011 4.8 YPC

2012 4.2 YPC (Injured, missed a quarter of season)

2013 5.1 YPC

2014 4.2 YPC (Only year outside of Rookie season where he wasn't injured, and then didn't perform up to his standard. He was then traded)

2015 4.4 YPC (Injured, missed a quarter of season)

 

As for lowest yards per touch out of everyone in 2014, let me see a source for that. This site has him 22nd. Above Chris Ivory (198 carries) Alfred Morris (265 carries), Giovani Bernard (168 carries), Matt Forte (266 carries) etc...

 

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/rush-yards-per-attempt/2014/

 

"Touch" is both carries and receptions.

 

It's one thing when C is telling me that the Bills don't run up the MIDDLE when I am talking about the cutbacks being INSIDE.............but you actually typed "touch" and then looked up rushing attempts.

 

And Shady claims he was injured in 2014........he blamed his down 2014 on a lingering foot injury and fatigue.

 

The foot injury was reportedly still bothering him last June.

 

So I guess he's just been injured 3 of the past 4 seasons.

[What a Tuel]

 

"Touch" is both carries and receptions.

 

It's one thing when C is telling me that the Bills don't run up the MIDDLE when I am talking about the cutbacks being INSIDE.............but you actually typed "touch" and then looked up rushing attempts.

 

And Shady claims he was injured in 2014........he blamed his down 2014 on a lingering foot injury and fatigue.

 

The foot injury was reportedly still bothering him last June.

 

So I guess he's just been injured 3 of the past 4 seasons.

 

And you are saying YPR when you clearly mean YPC. What's your point? You jump all over the place picking cherries, it's difficult to tell exactly what you mean.

 

How's that source coming on McCoy being dead last from every player in the league for yards per TOUCH in 2014?

[26CornerBlitz]

@NFL

Top 5 Running Back groups in the NFL: 5. @buffalobills 4. @Chiefs 3-1.

NFL Now: Top 5 Running Back groups in the NFL (2:55)

 

[BADOLBILZ]

 

And you are saying YPR when you clearly mean YPC. What's your point? You jump all over the place picking cherries, it's difficult to tell exactly what you mean.

 

How's that source coming on McCoy being dead last from every player in the league for yards per TOUCH in 2014?

 

Yards per rush and yards per carry are the same thing.

 

Yards per touch is an entirely different statistic.

 

IPP........ignorance per post.......you rank highly on TSW in that statistic.

 

This discussion has been going on for a year now.......do your own research if you don't want to read the threads.......google is your friend........you are more than a little late to the discussion.

 

You guys crack me up with the cherry picked stats claim. Yards per rush/carry/attempt over a 4 year period aren't fair game? Touchdowns? If there was one aberrantly negative year in 4 it would be cherry picking........not pointing out that there were 3 very similar, underwhelming years out of 4.

[What a Tuel]

 

Yards per rush and yards per carry are the same thing.

 

Yards per touch is an entirely different statistic.

 

IPP........ignorance per post.......you rank highly on TSW in that statistic.

 

This discussion has been going on for a year now.......do your own research if you don't want to read the threads.......google is your friend........you are more than a little late to the discussion.

 

You guys crack me up with the cherry picked stats claim. Yards per rush/carry/attempt over a 4 year period aren't fair game? Touchdowns? If there was one aberrantly negative year in 4 it would be cherry picking........not pointing out that there were 3 very similar, underwhelming years out of 4.

 

Sammy Watkins had 17.5 YPR in 2015.

Sammy Watkins had 1.0 YPC in 2015.

 

Do you see the difference? But yeah keep criticizing me as if I am confusing the two or going back and forth using different terms when you are doing the same thing. In your world, yards per touch would be a valid term because people call handoffs touches too!

 

So sorry I confused what you were saying though. Edit: To prevent further confusion, I fully understand you meant to include both receptions and carries in this mystery stat.

 

Edit: As for cherry picking, why did you stop at 4 years? Was that a just a round amount of time? Why not 5 years? Why not 3? That is called cherry picking. Nothing changed with McCoy in the last 5-6 years that you should be discounting half of his career. Of course you'll claim old age, and decline. Did he start declining at age 25 in 2012?

 

And to further illustrate my point...... in 2014 he had the LOWEST yards per touch of any qualifying player in the entire NFL.

 

I'm still waiting on that source though. The burden of proof is on you buddy. I didn't make the claim, you did. For all I know, it's true. I'd like to see the source though.

Edited May 31, 2016 by What a Tuel

[BADOLBILZ]

 

Sammy Watkins had 17.5 YPR in 2015.

Sammy Watkins had 1.0 YPC in 2015.

 

Do you see the difference? But yeah keep criticizing me as if I am confusing the two or going back and forth using different terms when you are doing the same thing. In your world, yards per touch would be a valid term because people call handoffs touches too!

 

So sorry I confused what you were saying though. Edit: To prevent further confusion, I fully understand you meant to include both receptions and carries in this mystery stat.

 

Edit: As for cherry picking, why did you stop at 4 years? Was that a just a round amount of time? Why not 5 years? Why not 3? That is called cherry picking. Nothing changed with McCoy in the last 5-6 years that you should be discounting half of his career. Of course you'll claim old age, and decline. Did he start declining at age 25 in 2012?

 

 

I'm still waiting on that source though. The burden of proof is on you buddy. I didn't make the claim, you did. For all I know, it's true. I'd like to see the source though.

 

 

As I've said before, I get no commission for making sales on TSW.......it's a pretty simple google search but if you can't manage it..........try the 1:45 mark of the first quarter in the home opener against the Colts.

 

Break out your vhs tape.

 

Like I said.......we've been thru this. It's only news to you.

 

And yes.......handoffs are touches.......so are receptions.......you follow now?

 

Why choose a 4 year sample size?

 

Why not?

 

It's long enough and reflects when the downturn in his per-rush and TD performance began.......with the exception being one aberrant season for the Eagles offense.

 

If you don't have anything new to offer I'm not going to bicker with you over your level of ignorance.......I don't care about that.

[BillsBytheBay]

I can't take all the emoji's anymore.

I stopped reading, and got lost in all the little yellow faces... like watching minions with my kid.

[What a Tuel]

It's long enough and reflects when the downturn in his per-rush and TD performance began.......with the exception being one aberrant season for the Eagles offense.

 

Yep long enough to exclude his 2nd best season Not convenient at all. Let me try. Excluding this past season in which he was injured (let's call it a....aberration), his prior 2 seasons he averaged 4.67 YPC. Not too shabby.

Edited May 31, 2016 by What a Tuel

[Magox]

Chip year 1 was an aberration? Sure, i'll give it to you. I'm not sure how you'll explain away the following though.

 

2009 945 all purpose yards (637 rushing) *Rookie

2010 1,672 all purpose yards (1,080 rushing)

2011 1,624 all purpose yards (1,309 rushing)

2012 1,213 all purpose yards (840 rushing) Injured 4 games. He was almost 35 at that point.

2013 2,146 all purpose yards (1,607 rushing)

2014 1,474 all purpose yards (1,319 rushing) noticeable drop in pass targets. From watching, I saw Chip give more opportunities to Sproles (57 carries and 63 passing targets) and Polk (46 carries). Rift between Chip and McCoy? No he was almost 40 at this point. It's age.

2015 1,187 all purpose yards (895 rushing) Injured 4 games. Again age?

 

But yes, we will chalk McCoy's "decline" to age, and not getting those 2,146 all purpose yards again (it was an aberration I tell you!) despite having a phenomenal career surrounding it.

 

Keep running to the sideline McCoy!

 

Without the injuries (which really isn't all that many over the last 6 years), there really isn't much of a drop off.

[BillsBytheBay]

Horrible stats from an old man. Just Turrible. Who would want an old man who's averaged over 1200 yards of offense a year....

[26CornerBlitz]

NFL's scariest position groups: Ranking the top 10

Eric Decker and Brandon Marshall just combined for 26 TDs, giving the Jets a dynamic duo out wide. But Gang Green's WR corps doesn't top Bucky Brooks' list of the most feared position groups.

 

10) Buffalo Bills' running backs

Rex Ryan's "ground and pound" attack features an electric veteran (LeSean McCoy) with explosive shake-and-bake skills and a big-bodied youngster (Karlos Williams) with big-play potential. In addition, the Bills have an emerging runner in Mike Gillislee with outstanding balance, body control and burst. I predict that, in an offense committed to pounding the ball between the tackles, the Bills' talented stable of runners will anchor the NFL's top-ranked rush attack for the second straight season.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

Yep long enough to exclude his 2nd best season Not convenient at all. Let me try. Excluding this past season in which he was injured (let's call it a....aberration), his prior 2 seasons he averaged 4.67 YPC. Not too shabby.

 

 

He was a better player 5-7 years ago.

 

I mean if we are going back 5 years to determine how good a player is today.............then remind me again why Peyton Manning retired?

[boyst]

 

 

He was a better player 5-7 years ago.

 

I mean if we are going back 5 years to determine how good a player is today.............then remind me again why Peyton Manning retired?

it'd be perfect. mccoy from 5-6 years ago, rex from 5-6 years ago, kyle williams 5-6 years ago...

[3rdand12]

NFL's scariest position groups: Ranking the top 10

 

10) Buffalo Bills' running backs

Rex Ryan's "ground and pound" attack features an electric veteran (LeSean McCoy) with explosive shake-and-bake skills and a big-bodied youngster (Karlos Williams) with big-play potential. In addition, the Bills have an emerging runner in Mike Gillislee with outstanding balance, body control and burst. I predict that, in an offense committed to pounding the ball between the tackles, the Bills' talented stable of runners will anchor the NFL's top-ranked rush attack for the second straight season.

 

no way. outlandish and poorly considered prediction !

 

Or is it ?

it'd be perfect. mccoy from 5-6 years ago, rex from 5-6 years ago, kyle williams 5-6 years ago...

me, from about 30 years ago. I was quite good back then

[What a Tuel]

 

 

He was a better player 5-7 years ago.

 

I mean if we are going back 5 years to determine how good a player is today.............then remind me again why Peyton Manning retired?

 

it'd be perfect. mccoy from 5-6 years ago, rex from 5-6 years ago, kyle williams 5-6 years ago...

 

Yep we will just write off the 2 out of 3 good seasons in the last 3 years as aberrations. His only poor seasons were his rookie year, and the 2 seasons he was injured.

 

So here's a question I haven't at least asked yet. Which is it? Are you arguing that McCoy was never good? Or are you arguing he has declined with age starting at age 24? Or both I guess?

Edited June 1, 2016 by What a Tuel

[BADOLBILZ]

 

 

Yep we will just write off the 2 out of 3 good seasons in the last 3 years as aberrations. His only poor seasons were his rookie year, and the 2 seasons he was injured.

 

So here's a question I haven't at least asked yet. Which is it? Are you arguing that McCoy was never good? Or are you arguing he has declined with age starting at age 24? Or both I guess?

 

His decline has less to do with age than his unwillingness to adapt.

 

Kelly wanted him to dance less and get north and south sooner.........McCoy refused........rushed for 4.2 yards per carry and produced a measly 4.3 yards per touch and was going to be released outright if the Bills hadn't taken the bait.

 

He then came to Buffalo and despite pleas to the contrary from starstruck Shady fans......he watched far less talented, and even farther less-paid RB's outperform him simply by doing the kind of things Kelly wanted him to do.

 

He claims that he now sees the missed opportunities.

 

But like I've said.........there comes a point when new-found wisdom is too little too late.

 

I wasn't expecting Shady to own up to what the rest of you guys refuse to........but he did........IMO it's still going to be too late.

 

The wear and tear is revealing itself via injuries and the inability to avoid them.

 

Even the play where he tore his MCL.......that was probably a hit he is able to avoid 5 years ago.

 

For multiple reasons.....first he was a better player........and second, the players on defense weren't as adept at taking the sideline away from him.

 

He needs to realize he ain't gonna' outrun many of these new LB's, safeties or bigger, more physical corners by running horizontally.

[BADOLBILZ]

It's official.......Shady is nursing a hamstring already.

[Augie]

It's official.......Shady is nursing a hamstring already.

Just getting it out of the way early? Hey, we're ahead of schedule!

[BADOLBILZ]

Just getting it out of the way early? Hey, we're ahead of schedule!

 

 

It actually does surprise me that he can come to minicamp after a year like last year and not even be able to go thru light walk-thru's because of a tight hamstring.

 

He's been off for nearly 6 months.

 

I know that he had to wait for his MCL to heal but.........stretch much?

 

People think all of these dudes do everything they can to be in peak condition........train daily, eat right, sleep in hyperbaric chambers all off-season........like Bill Romanowski trying at great length to stay on the field as long and often as physically possible............but the reality is that many are just young, gifted athletes who aren't all-in on beating the effects of age/wear and tear.

 

Even I assumed that his focus this offseason would be to end the soft-tissue issues.......and this is a concern because he was limited last June as well and that lead to a quick injury in camp and then unavailability for most of camp then more injuries in season.

 

I liked what I heard from him last week in admitting that he underachieved in Romans offense but as I've said before sometimes wisdom and age/wear and tear intersect too soon and we never get to see a player at his peak physically and mentally.