Kirby Jackson Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 I'm going to step out on this one. Anyone that doesn't believe that Shady is the best back I don't know what to say. There isn't a scout or coach in the world that believes otherwise. My original point was that he is the most underrated player on the team by the fans (which is extremely odd). No one outside of Bills fans believe that Karlos Williams or Mike Gillislee are as good. I'm just going to leave this alone and get back to the Cavs game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 I'm going to step out on this one. Anyone that doesn't believe that Shady is the best back I don't know what to say. There isn't a scout or coach in the world that believes otherwise. My original point was that he is the most underrated player on the team by the fans (which is extremely odd). No one outside of Bills fans believe that Karlos Williams or Mike Gillislee are as good. I'm just going to leave this alone and get back to the Cavs game. You also thought CJ Spiller was going to be great in New Orleans, correct? You and Sean Peyton? I strongly suggested that he wasn't smart enough to succeed in his offense based on observations made from his rookie year thru the end of his contract. Sometimes people who see every play and understand the context can actually know better than those who do not........even more than scouts and coaches.......and sometimes a strong, proven system can expose a weaknesses that has been otherwise excused.........for Nola it was Spillers low processor speed.........for Buffalo it was McCoy's insistence on trying to get around the edge when the play was inside. I am watching the Cavs game too. I think at this point I am just curious to see if there will ever be a competitive game again........not tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big C Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 You are very observant........was water wet last year? Don't understand what the hostility is for, but it goes against your point about Roman's yards being found up the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 I thought Spiller would excel in NOLA. Oops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted May 28, 2016 Author Share Posted May 28, 2016 You also thought CJ Spiller was going to be great in New Orleans, correct? You and Sean Peyton? I strongly suggested that he wasn't smart enough to succeed in his offense based on observations made from his rookie year thru the end of his contract. Sometimes people who see every play and understand the context can actually know better than those who do not........even more than scouts and coaches.......and sometimes a strong, proven system can expose a weaknesses that has been otherwise excused.........for Nola it was Spillers low processor speed.........for Buffalo it was McCoy's insistence on trying to get around the edge when the play was inside. I am watching the Cavs game too. I think at this point I am just curious to see if there will ever be a competitive game again........not tonight. Well, now we have it in writing...he really does believe he's the smartest guy in the room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 Barry Sanders, Thurman Thomas, McCoy type rb's aren't real. RLB, jmo, but I would not place Thurman in a class with those 2 backs. Barry and McCoy make people miss with their moves. Thurman did too but I think his strength was the ability to SEE and get through a hole, He seemed to spot a hole as it was forming. He also was an all purpose back who was even great in pass protection. And let'sce facts, Thurman was a much tougher guy than either of them. Btw, I would be hesitant to sell Karlos short. I am not a fan of Whaley. I make than clear on this board but Karlos was a fantastic draft choice, and I credit Whaley for selecting him. And Badol is right.....it just makes sense for bigger backs to physically pound these smaller defenses, and it works. Imagine Karlos slamming into Kiko at full speed, with a 5 yard head start!!! I thought Spiller would excel in NOLA. Oops.I knew Spiller was a nightmare from the day he was drafted. I also thought Rob Johnson would be a great quarterback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 The problem is Karlos can't stay healthy. Which is why they drafted Jonathan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 The problem is Karlos can't stay healthy. Which is why they drafted Jonathan.This might very well be the case, but he was one of the best things to watch on the Bills last season, week after week. I don't know his combine numbers, be he sure looked fast for a bruising, punishing back, dontcha think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 This might very well be the case, but he was one of the best things to watch on the Bills last season, week after week. I don't know his combine numbers, be he sure looked fast for a bruising, punishing back, dontcha think? I loved what I saw of him when he was healthy and in a backup role. I was disappointed though with the injuries and how he fared in the 3 games he started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted May 28, 2016 Author Share Posted May 28, 2016 This might very well be the case, but he was one of the best things to watch on the Bills last season, week after week. I don't know his combine numbers, be he sure looked fast for a bruising, punishing back, dontcha think? I loved what I saw of him when he was healthy and in a backup role. I was disappointed though with the injuries and how he fared in the 3 games he started. I realize this goes against the grain of our resident football expert, but it seemed to me that Karlos was most effective when used in combination with Shady because of the different ways defenses have to prepare for each back. When Karlos was the only game in town (Shady hurt), he didn't have nearly as much success. I admit I have not gone back and broken down game tape and analyzed statistics...this is my gut reaction after watching the games. My feeling is that Karlos, at least at this point, is not a "feature" back but rather a change of pace. I'm also concerned about his concussion history given his upright style of running and the punishment he takes (as well as inflicts). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 My feeling is that Karlos, at least at this point, is not a "feature" back but rather a change of pace. I'm also concerned about his concussion history given his upright style of running and the punishment he takes (as well as inflicts). I gotta admit, it DOES appear odd that the seemingly one time you are not all over the place praising the Bills, it comes in the form of an slight to Karlos Williams. It IS interesting e-man. Big Cat loves Rex, and seems to think that going from 54 to 21 sacks isn't really a big deal, but he throws a bit of sarcasm and skepticism in the way of Tyrod, another ray of hope in Rex's chaotic mess. I am NOT insulting you guys either. I'm really just trying to understand, and it isn't easy. Have a wonderful weekend! This is a great time of year and when it's over we get to see the Bills, (and for those of you who partake, the Tide ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted May 28, 2016 Author Share Posted May 28, 2016 I gotta admit, it DOES appear odd that the seemingly one time you are not all over the place praising the Bills, it comes in the form of an slight to Karlos Williams. It IS interesting e-man. Big Cat loves Rex, and seems to think that going from 54 to 21 sacks isn't really a big deal, but he throws a bit of sarcasm and skepticism in the way of Tyrod, another ray of hope in Rex's chaotic mess. I am NOT insulting you guys either. I'm really just trying to understand, and it isn't easy. Have a wonderful weekend! This is a great time of year and when it's over we get to see the Bills, (and for those of you who partake, the Tide ) Bill, if you really ever read my stuff it is not effusive praise of all things Bills. Truthfully, it seems I spend most of time simply wondering why so many are so negative. I really like what Karlos did last year but there are significant question marks about his ability to be "the man" and also his injury issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 You also thought CJ Spiller was going to be great in New Orleans, correct? You and Sean Peyton? I strongly suggested that he wasn't smart enough to succeed in his offense based on observations made from his rookie year thru the end of his contract. Sometimes people who see every play and understand the context can actually know better than those who do not........even more than scouts and coaches.......and sometimes a strong, proven system can expose a weaknesses that has been otherwise excused.........for Nola it was Spillers low processor speed.........for Buffalo it was McCoy's insistence on trying to get around the edge when the play was inside. I am watching the Cavs game too. I think at this point I am just curious to see if there will ever be a competitive game again........not tonight. I did think that Spiller would be very successful in NOLA. He struggled mightily in his 1st year. I've seen every Bills snap since 1988. I think that you must be talking to someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 This is heating up.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 This is heating up.... Meh. It's the same stuff from months ago being repeated. #teamgilleslie!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 I did think that Spiller would be very successful in NOLA. He struggled mightily in his 1st year. I've seen every Bills snap since 1988. I think that you must be talking to someone else. So do you remember the game in Miami in his rookie year when Tasker let it slip in the broadcast that Spiller wasn't playing because he couldn't get the playcalls straight in his head? And then the seasons of all-22's where he seemed totally unaware of where the plays were designed to go? Or when after a slow start in his fifth year he told the media he had to remember to follow his blocks? This is basic football in what really weren't complex offenses by NFL standards.......so why did you think he was ready for one of the more complex schemes in the game? The issues with McCoy are just as blatant. Trying to turn the issue into me saying Karlos and MG are better backs when I've clearly made the point that they are not that special......"converted safety"...."street free agent"..........is par for the course here but totally inaccurate. Is Manny Lawson a better player than Mario Williams? Obviously not. But was he better at his job in Rex system than Mario? Obviously yes. Karlos and MG aren't more talented players.......they just executed the scheme better. And.....of course........they are playing for peanuts versus McCoy's cumbersome $40M contract with $26M in guarantees that he will never come close to playing out. Until he shows he can adapt he is what he is........he can get you 4.2 ypr and a few TD's in any scheme.......league average production on a per-play basis......whether it's a bad scheme like Hackett or a great one like Romans.......and that's because he just does what he wants. Run it like it's drawn up LeSean and then you will be that 5+ ypr and 10-12 TD guy. I know because that's the kind of work that Karlos and MG ACTUALLY did last year. Check the stats. There are other issues with his injuries and such but the biggest problem is his lack of buy-in and if he doesn't come around he will be out the door of another franchise despite being a beauty queen to those that don't permit him to get the fat paychecks.....players on other teams, fans and media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 The lengths some will go to twist things to fit their narrative is always hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 The lengths some will go to twist things to fit their narrative is always hilarious. i don't like him because he is Irish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 i don't like him because he is Irish. That's just good common sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 The lengths some will go to twist things to fit their narrative is always hilarious. Like pointing out that the best 10 quarters of rush offense the Bills had in 2015 was after McCoy was lost for the season. If you found out that a QB was legally blind in his left eye wouldn't you notice if he is more effective throwing to one side of the field or another? If CJ Spiller gets an atrocious score on the wonderlic.......then you find out that he doesn't understand the plays......then you see him act like he has no idea where the plays are supposed to be going............well, as the song goes "I couldn't smell the smoke......and now I watch the flames". The truth is right in front of you............but I guess when your glass is always full you might be drinking a bit too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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