Jerry Jones Regrets Not Overpaying to Get Lynch

[26CornerBlitz]

This sounds like a botched draft to me.

@BuffRumblings

#Bills were the only team to gain value on every pick according to one consensus board http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2016/5/2/11564430/bills-the-only-team-without-a-draft-reach-per-one-consensus-board

"Buffalo is the only team to gain value on every single pick. Shaq Lawson, Reggie Ragland, Adolphus Washington, Cardale Jones, Jonathan Williams, Kolby Listenbee and Kevon Seymour were all ranked higher than the pick the Bills grabbed them at, and though there are very real questions about things like where Williams fits on the depth chart and so on, the board doesn’t know about needs and likes the talent they grabbed."

 

 

[Tenhigh]

I thought the object was to get really good players, not just players in quantity. If they really believed that Lawson is a perfect fit and elite, you take him. This is a team that really needs a defensive end, and Reed is not the player that Lawson is.

Couldn't agree more

[GG]

Ok, but that's what I'm saying. They could have four players instead of one Lawson. Yes that's net three players...

 

Three players of far worse value.

 

Analyzing the deals and non deals

 

Whaley's draft deals netted the Bills Lawson + Ragland. If they had taken the Cowboys offer, they would have been 75 net points behind in the draft value chart, which is the equivalent of a mid-4th round pick. So we can quibble on the number of players that Lawson cost, but it shouldn't be debatable that Cowboys offer was way too low for the 19th pick

[DrDawkinstein]

The only person that "botched the draft" was Jerry Jones. Whaley straight up nailed it. Had his picks and players evaluated and knew their values, made a perfect compensation demand for the #19 pick, but Jerry blew it. Whaley had the Bills set up to benefit either way.

 

I understand the argument from those saying they would rather have made the trade, but it ultimately wasn't Buffalo's call. And I wouldnt have wanted them to take anything less. That 2017 1st round pick was crucial to the deal.

 

Its a fun little exercise to play "what if" and think about the players we could have had if the deal had gone through. And maybe we would have ended up with comparable quality. But again, Dallas chickened out, and we still had one of the best drafts (on paper) in Bills history.

 

Conclusion: LOL Dallas, Great job Doug.

[Coach Tuesday]

I thought the object was to get really good players, not just players in quantity. If they really believed that Lawson is a perfect fit and elite, you take him. This is a team that really needs a defensive end, and Reed is not the player that Lawson is.

 

In this draft, IMO, unless you're picking top 5 or 6, the object was quantity in Rounds 2-4. That's my view, I understand it's unpopular here. I'm not a huge fan of Shaq Lawson as a player - I'd rather get four players in Rounds 2-4 than one Shaq Lawson. But I'm comfortable holding the minority view.

[DrDawkinstein]

 

In this draft, IMO, unless you're picking top 5 or 6, the object was quantity in Rounds 2-4. That's my view, I understand it's unpopular here. I'm not a huge fan of Shaq Lawson as a player - I'd rather get four players in Rounds 2-4 than one Shaq Lawson. But I'm comfortable holding the minority view.

 

And for the most part, the Bills agreed with you, but Dallas was too chicken to pull the trigger and give up their 2017 1st.

 

Either way, we were in the drivers seat, calling our shots and getting the most for the team.

 

If you're arguing that we should have been happy with their 2nd and 3rd for the #19 overall, then you are just crazy.

[Coach Tuesday]

 

And for the most part, the Bills agreed with you, but Dallas was too chicken to pull the trigger and give up their 2017 1st.

 

Either way, we were in the drivers seat, calling our shots and getting the most for the team.

 

If you're arguing that we should have been happy with their 2nd and 3rd for the #19 overall, then you are just crazy.

 

That's what the teams in the 20s were willing to take, according to Peter King. I don't think it's crazy.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

That's what the teams in the 20s were willing to take, according to Peter King. I don't think it's crazy.

 

If they were willing to take that, then why didn't any other team between 20 and 26 pull the trigger?

[Coach Tuesday]

 

If they were willing to take that, then why didn't any other team between 20 and 26 pull the trigger?

 

Because Dallas was only offering its 2nd and 4th to those teams - they were insisting on a third (which is what Dallas had offered to Buffalo and the Jets), but Dallas refused. Now Jerry is saying he goofed.

[DrDawkinstein]

 

That's what the teams in the 20s were willing to take, according to Peter King. I don't think it's crazy.

 

"Willing to" but didnt?

[Doc]

Drink your coffee Coach.

[eball]

Oh no! He'll have to wait until 2017 to sell the farm to get Romo's replacement!

 

Look, Romo is still his guy. And while he doesn't have much of a shelf life left, he's still a darn good QB. If Jerry was serious about getting a replacement, he had his shot at 4. And, for the record, he didn't massively overpay to go up to slots for Wentz or Goff, neither of whom are sure things.

 

Instead, he took a fantastic RB, has a solid O-ine, has a healthy Romo this year (and probably for next year)

 

Are you really defending Jones' lunacy? The point of this thread, I think, is that Jones drafted one QB and then immediately pined for another -- which is absolutely bizarre behavior.

[Coach Tuesday]

 

"Willing to" but didnt?

 

Correct - Dallas only offered teams in the 20s a 2nd and 4th, not a 2nd and 3rd. Read the article...

[26CornerBlitz]

 

Because Dallas was only offering its 2nd and 4th to those teams - they were insisting on a third (which is what Dallas had offered to Buffalo and the Jets), but Dallas refused. Now Jerry is saying he goofed.

 

No way the Bills should have dropped 15 spots just to pick up an extra 3rd round pick as others have said. Jerruh should have given up the 2017 1st instead of crying about it now and Dak Prescott must feel good about his whine as someone else pointed out.

[DrDawkinstein]

Drink your coffee Coach.

 

Yeah, and eat a Snickers.

 

I guess you'll just have to agree to disagree with just about everyone on this. No biggie, what's done is done. The Bills are definitely NOT regretting their moves and picks in the draft, while Dallas's owner is already on record that he does.

 

Go Bills!

[Coach Tuesday]

 

Yeah, and eat a Snickers.

 

I guess you'll just have to agree to disagree with just about everyone on this. No biggie, what's done is done. The Bills are definitely NOT regretting their moves and picks in the draft, while Dallas's owner is already on record that he does.

 

Go Bills!

 

Let me ask you this: would you rather have Lawson and Ragland, or Ragland, Jarron Reed, and an extra 3rd and 4th in this year's draft and an extra 4th in next year's draft? I think it's a legitimate point of debate...

[26CornerBlitz]

 

Let me ask you this: would you rather have Lawson and Ragland, or Ragland, Jarron Reed, and an extra 3rd and 4th in this year's draft and an extra 4th in next year's draft? I think it's a legitimate point of debate...

 

Coming into the draft, the Bills really needed someone who could set the edge against the run and also rush the passer. Lawson was the best guy on the board who could fulfill both roles. I'd like to know who you think they could have acquired in the 2nd round to fill the void if the deal had been completed as Dallas proposed.

Edited May 2, 2016 by 26CornerBlitz

[DrDawkinstein]

 

Let me ask you this: would you rather have Lawson and Ragland, or Ragland, Jarron Reed, and an extra 3rd and 4th in this year's draft and an extra 4th in next year's draft? I think it's a legitimate point of debate...

 

I get it, and it's a fun and interesting game to play. If you are guaranteeing those players, then it's certainly debatable. But Seattle moved up to get Reed, and they likely jump us to do the same.

 

I'm looking at the players that were taken in the 3rd round this year between Dallas's pick at #67 and us at #80 and dont see any "must haves". Now, with that said, I really wanted Braxton Miller, and maybe this would've meant we take Washington at 67 and Miller at 80. And if you are guaranteeing me Ragland, Reed, Washington, and Miller then it is certainly something to consider.

 

But there are no guarantees, and ultimately, it was Dallas who is regretting their draft.

[Doc]

Let me ask you this: would you rather have Lawson and Ragland, or Ragland, Jarron Reed, and an extra 3rd and 4th in this year's draft and an extra 4th in next year's draft? I think it's a legitimate point of debate...

I'd rather have the more talent guys.

[Coach Tuesday]

 

Coming into the draft, the Bills really needed someone who could set the edge against the run and also rush the passer. Lawson was the best guy on the board who could fulfill both roles. I'd like to know who you think they could have acquired in the 2nd round to fill the void if the deal had been completed as Dallas proposed.

 

And if you're drafting based on need like that, you're DOA. Use free agency to fill holes, not the draft.

Edited May 2, 2016 by Coach Tuesday

[DrDawkinstein]

 

And if you're drafting based on need like that, you're DOA. Use free agency to fill holes, not the draft.

 

But isnt it so wonderful when Need meets BPA?

[26CornerBlitz]

 

And if you're drafting based on need like that, you're DOA. Use free agency to fill holes, not the draft.

 

DOA? Hardly! When the highest rated player on your board meets a specific need you pull the trigger on the guy with zero hesitation.

 

More coffee!

[Freddie's Dead]

The sad part of that equation is that the Bills only wanted the 'girls 2017 1st round pick. They should have asked for at least two or three picks for Jerruh to move back into round 1. Other teams get a king's ransom trading down, but we appear to take too little and give up too much.

[DrDawkinstein]

The sad part of that equation is that the Bills only wanted the 'girls 2017 1st round pick. They should have asked for at least two or three picks for Jerruh to move back into round 1. Other teams get a king's ransom trading down, but we appear to take too little and give up too much.

 

WHAT?!? It takes a special kind of Bills fan to dig so hard to find fault with the Bills here.

 

You are criticizing Whaley for not asking for enough in a reality where Dallas found the Bills demand too steep...

And I think you're info is off. Bills wanted the 2017 1st, and 2016 2nd and 3rd.

Edited May 2, 2016 by DrDareustein

[26CornerBlitz]

The sad part of that equation is that the Bills only wanted the 'girls 2017 1st round pick. They should have asked for at least two or three picks for Jerruh to move back into round 1. Other teams get a king's ransom trading down, but we appear to take too little and give up too much.

 

Huh? I'm sure the Bills also wanted Dallas' #34 pick that was the 3rd pick in the 2nd round.

 

WHAT?!? It takes a special kind of Bills fan to dig so hard to find fault with the Bills here.

 

You are criticizing Whaley for not asking for enough in a reality where Dallas found the Bills demand too steep...

 

Just another TSW Manic Monday?

[DrDawkinstein]

 

Just another TSW Manic Monday?

 

No doubt.

 

I mean, its fun to play "what if" with the draft, especially in light of another team's regrets. But to criticize the Bills for what is probably their best draft (on paper) in years, is ridiculous.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

No doubt.

 

I mean, its fun to play "what if" with the draft, especially in light of another team's regrets. But to criticize the Bills for what is probably their best draft (on paper) in years, is ridiculous.

 

Seems to me that some people's preconceived biases get in the way of any fair assessment of the this draft in particular that has been almost universally lauded as on of the best in the NFL.

[Doc]

Just another TSW Manic Monday?

 

I wish it was (football) Sunday.

Edited May 2, 2016 by Doc

[26CornerBlitz]

 

I wish it was (football) Sunday.

 

Hear Hear Good Sir!

[GG]

 

And if you're drafting based on need like that, you're DOA. Use free agency to fill holes, not the draft.

 

And you also have to consider the value of what people are offering. Dallas' offer to Buffalo was 85 points below the draft value chart = mid 4th round pick. Bills were smart not to take the crazy offer because the two additional players they would have have drafted this year wouldn't be as good as Shaq.

[26CornerBlitz]

Here's how the Cowboys lost out on Paxton Lynch as their future QB

By Will Brinson | CBS Sports NFL Writer

The Dallas Cowboys badly wanted Paxton Lynch as the heir to Tony Romo. But not so bad that Jerry Jones would give up more picks in a trade. And now he has to live with the regret.

[dave mcbride]

Another thing Coach Tuesday is forgetting: moving out of the first entirely means you lose a guy you have 5th-year control over. That fifth year is why Stephon Gilmore is playing for the Bills next season.

[26CornerBlitz]

Another thing Coach Tuesday is forgetting: moving out of the first entirely means you lose a guy you have 5th-year control over. That fifth year is why Stephon Gilmore is playing for the Bills next season.

 

Great point!

Smart decision OBD!

 

@YardsPerPass

From @SI_PeterKing 's MMQB Bills said no to Cowboys offer to trade down for Dallas's 2nd and 3rd

@ChrisTrapasso

Chris Trapasso Retweeted YardsPerPass.com

Good idea for #Bills to decline. Not nearly enough compensation to go from 19 to 34. Or any team in early 20s.

[Coach Tuesday]

Another thing Coach Tuesday is forgetting: moving out of the first entirely means you lose a guy you have 5th-year control over. That fifth year is why Stephon Gilmore is playing for the Bills next season.

 

That is a good point. Still not the tipping point for me but I get it.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

 

Let me ask you this: would you rather have Lawson and Ragland, or Ragland, Jarron Reed, and an extra 3rd and 4th in this year's draft and an extra 4th in next year's draft? I think it's a legitimate point of debate...

I'm not sure jarran Reed and his college career high of one sack makes the Bills much better. Lawson had 12.5 sacks last year and fared well against Stanley.

[26CornerBlitz]

@ESPN_NFLNation

Like Johnny Manziel, Jerry Jones needs to let Paxton Lynch go

https://t.co/RuSU3fbWZx

[26CornerBlitz]

@TheCowboysWire

Lucked Up? Cowboys saved from themselves in 2016 NFL draft: https://t.co/2cCIiHQX10

[NoSaint]

 

Because Dallas was only offering its 2nd and 4th to those teams - they were insisting on a third (which is what Dallas had offered to Buffalo and the Jets), but Dallas refused. Now Jerry is saying he goofed.

Know what I won't understand? If they would give us a 2 and 3 to get the kid, why would they draw a hard line not to offer that to the team at 24?

 

You get the same player for the same time, but a cheaper contract!

Edited May 2, 2016 by NoSaint

[dave mcbride]

Know what I won't understand? If they would give us a 2 and 3 to get the kid, why would they draw a hard line not to offer that to the team at 24?

 

You get the same player for the same time, but a cheaper contract!

Excellent point! Who cares whether you get him at 26 or 19 as long as you get the guy!! And he comes cheaper at 26.

 

That is a LogicFail on the Cowboys' part, who were perhaps blinded by the draft value point chart.

[NoSaint]

Excellent point! Who cares whether you get him at 26 or 19 as long as you get the guy!! And he comes cheaper at 26.

 

That is a LogicFail on the Cowboys' part, who were perhaps blinded by the draft value point chart.

getting lynch 5 picks later is definitely MORE valuable to the team, but they were only willing to give up less resources to do it.... either their logic was embarrassingly off for leaders at that level, or the story is.

Edited May 2, 2016 by NoSaint