The Doug Whaley positives are taking huge hits.

[Sisyphean Bills]

I do not understand why Whaley has to own the EJ pick when the outgoing GM picked him

 

There is a huge middle ground here. Why argue whether it is 100% ownership or 100% absolution?

 

What is inarguable is that Whaley was a part of the decision to draft EJM. Whaley set the draft board that year and was a part of the decision.

[John from Riverside]

 

There is a huge middle ground here. Why argue whether it is 100% ownership or 100% absolution?

 

What is inarguable is that Whaley was a part of the decision to draft EJM. Whaley set the draft board that year and was a part of the decision.

I am def not arguing that he was a part of the decision.....

 

I just think he didnt make the FINAL decision...imo

[3rdand12]

I do not understand why Whaley has to own the EJ pick when the outgoing GM picked him

He does not have to.

I just consider it a wash.

Someone had to pick one after waiting so long.

There has been debate infinitum about that subject and many folks still hold Whaley accountable.

I dont care either way.

But how Whaley did not have a huge amount of input on this seems a bit off. The transition from Nix to whaley had already begun.

Not a point of contention for me John

[YoloinOhio]

Whaley has had to draft, sign, trade and make decisions on personnel for 3 different defensive schemes and 2 different offensive schemes in 3 years. Changing schemes plays havoc on roster development and sustaining fit. In that regard, what he has done is quite impressive. It will for so much easier for him in 2016 with two years of the same schemes on both sides. IMO.

 

He is very well respected mostly for his pro scouting, which is his background.

Edited January 2, 2016 by YoloinOhio

[NFLBighits]

Doug Whaley is one of the best things to happen to this organization and wished they would of waited on deciding on keeping Rex but it is what it is and hard to see if Rex is a problem or if it was the players ego that led to the meltdown on the defensive side and guessing it was a little of both so that's why Mario is heading out the door and watch Whaley strengthen the Defense in this coming draft ! That's his strength the draft and communicating with players as he is highly respected around the league.

[Rob's House]

Whaley is a risk taker. He's followed a path similar to that which brought Cinci out of the doldrums by taking chances on talented guys that the league passed over due to character (and in Whaley's case, injury) concerns. Some of these moves have worked out some haven't.

 

What I find funny is that Whaley's a genius for every move that works out and blameless for every one that doesn't. When a guy with injury concerns gets injured it's treated as bad luck rather than a foreseeable consequence of a calculated risk.

 

Even more interesting is how fans invent facts to absolve Whaley of blame. According to half of TBD Whaley was dead set against EJ & Rex. There is not one iota of evidence to support either theory, but they're treated by many as incontrovertible truth.

 

It's also interesting how most fans say Nix sucked but love Whaley for the talented roster that was largely assembled by Nix.

 

I don't think Whaley outright sucks, and I'm all for giving him and Rex another year (or possibly even 2, depending) to put it together before ultimately passing judgment, but the fan perception of this guy as Ozzie Newsome 2.0 is a bit much. Right now he's proven next to nothing.

[Boolay]

I am def not arguing that he was a part of the decision.....

 

I just think he didnt make the FINAL decision...imo

Didn' he say he was "All In" on EJ last year? Well when you go "All In" and fail miserably there needs to be consequnces.

[John from Riverside]

Didn' he say he was "All In" on EJ last year? Well when you go "All In" and fail miserably there needs to be consequnces.

What is he supposed to say?

 

He gets no credit for TT.....but has to take all the blame for EJ Manuel?

 

I dont get it

[FireChan]

What is he supposed to say?

 

He gets no credit for TT.....but has to take all the blame for EJ Manuel?

 

I dont get it

Several posters with inside info have assured that Whaley had final say in the 2013 draft. That's why he gets blamed for EJ. I'm sure you want him to have an "out" for EJ but he gets full credit for Woods and Kiko/McCoy right?

 

Also, he clearly doubled down on EJ with the Watkins trade. He even indicated as much. But when EJ imploded, we should just shrug our shoulders? No.

Edited January 2, 2016 by FireChan

[Jobot]

Of course thanks to the great coaching we had this year, Rex has put these players in the best possible position to succeed! -sarcasm-

 

Hell, Dareus hasn't even done well this year! If the best player on the roster (paid like it) can't look like a stud in Rex's system, then there is no way you can criticize Whaley on the performance of rookies and 2-year vets.

 

Let Whaley pick a coach, and then you can hate on him if the Bills still stink.

 

This team is in a complete rebuild mode currently. Dareus' contract is a killer and doesn't make sense to tie so much money in a DT under Rex's scheme.... We'll have to wait for his contract to expire before the Bills can afford more pro-bowlers and make the playoffs.

 

Thanks Pegula, it was a blast waiting 5 years for the sabres to look respectable again. I'm so thrilled we get to do the same with our Bills.

[26CornerBlitz]

Of course thanks to the great coaching we had this year, Rex has put these players in the best possible position to succeed! -sarcasm-

 

Hell, Dareus hasn't even done well this year! If the best player on the roster (paid like it) can't look like a stud in Rex's system, then there is no way you can criticize Whaley on the performance of rookies and 2-year vets.

 

Let Whaley pick a coach, and then you can hate on him if the Bills still stink.

 

This team is in a complete rebuild mode currently. Dareus' contract is a killer and doesn't make sense to tie so much money in a DT under Rex's scheme.... We'll have to wait for his contract to expire before the Bills can afford more pro-bowlers and make the playoffs.

 

Thanks Pegula, it was a blast waiting 5 years for the sabres to look respectable again. I'm so thrilled we get to do the same with our Bills.

 

They are???

[John from Riverside]

Several posters with inside info have assured that Whaley had final say in the 2013 draft. That's why he gets blamed for EJ. I'm sure you want him to have an "out" for EJ but he gets full credit for Woods and Kiko/McCoy right?

 

Also, he clearly doubled down on EJ with the Watkins trade. He even indicated as much. But when EJ imploded, we should just shrug our shoulders? No.

I am saying I dont know for sure......he could very well have signed off on EJ......and ended up overdrafting a QB in a draft of bad QBs

 

but

 

Even if that were true.......GMs do this all the time. If that scenario actually happened then he swung for the fences (trading down to do so) and it didnt pan out.

 

As far as Watkins.....he is starting to put up those numbers needed to justify a trade like that now.....its amazing how a QB that has the ability to get him the ball starts to change that around.

 

A GM's work should be looked at as a whole.....and in my opinion Whaley's drafts and free agent aquisitions have been solid.

 

The next test will be if the can get players that fit what Rex can actually coach and be successful with

 

The evaluation continues

[PO16FFS]

Just get a phockin QB and this will solve many problems.

 

The only above average available QB that the Bills should have chased was Alex Smith.

 

Hes going to the playoffs again. We are pickin are noses!

Edited January 2, 2016 by fredex22

[John from Riverside]

Just get a phockin QB and this will solve many problems.

 

The only available QB that the Bills had a chance at was Alex Smith.

 

Hes going to the playoffs again. We are pickin are noses!

With a D backing him up

 

We HAVE a QB

[FireChan]

I am saying I dont know for sure......he could very well have signed off on EJ......and ended up overdrafting a QB in a draft of bad QBs

 

but

 

Even if that were true.......GMs do this all the time. If that scenario actually happened then he swung for the fences (trading down to do so) and it didnt pan out.

 

As far as Watkins.....he is starting to put up those numbers needed to justify a trade like that now.....its amazing how a QB that has the ability to get him the ball starts to change that around.

 

A GM's work should be looked at as a whole.....and in my opinion Whaley's drafts and free agent aquisitions have been solid.

 

The next test will be if the can get players that fit what Rex can actually coach and be successful with

 

The evaluation continues

I just showed you the players he drafted. You consider that a success?

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Hope you're happy with this thread as I'm sure it makes you feel like you're actually smart! Keep posting as there's always a few that will agree with you, so that's another sign as to how smart you really are.

 

 

As we continue on the RR path of total dismantling, the "good" picks of DW are dropping like flies.

From the 2013 draft, it looks like we'll have 1 starter directly from it. McCoy, who is a solid starter. However, considering his massive contract, he isn't as good as a productive draft pick. Notable shout out to Nickell Robey, who after a promising rookie campaign has been weak as well.

From the 2014 draft, it looks like again we'll have 1 solid starter from it as well. He cost us a bunch of other picks, so again, not fantastic, but he does appear to have been worth it. PB is now weak. Seantrel's career is in jeopardy. Cyril is invisible. Ross is productive on another roster.

And the 2015 draft. Darby was a great pick. Karlos has had great value, but his concussions are a long-term concern. And everyone else is too soon to say.

So over 3 drafts, we have 4 good players. All other promising prospects have either busted or are still unproductive and unsafe. And this is the guy whose job is safe?

Even his "heist" of Hughes is lessened by us signing him to a lucrative long-term deal and his production being hampered. Did we really pay him all that money for ~5 sacks and 2 pass breakups? Not a net negative looking at the whole body of work, but it's no longer a slam dunk.

Sorta sad how things change.

 

 

Agree with you about Seantrel. Any good GM would have known he was going to get Crohns disease in year two. That one is all on Whaley, you're correct again, wow, you should be so proud of yourself!!

 

 

 

But Seantrel looks like his career may be over, so that pick is a loss.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Several posters with inside info have assured that Whaley had final say in the 2013 draft.

 

Can you help by providing info as to who these posters are, or maybe links?

 

I don't remember that but I could have missed it.

 

Inside info is a tricky thing. For example, some people with "inside info" have said Brandon is still involved in player personnel/draft decisions and other football ops matters?

 

Anyway, it could be true. The team put itself into a position where it pretty much had to swing at QB during the 2013 draft, which was not a great draft for QB to swing at. That wasn't all Whaley's doing, whether or not the draft choice was. As to blaming Whaley for EJ or any other draft choice that doesn't work out, the Cold Hard Football Facts are that even high-1st round QB have something like a 50% success rate in the NFL, and that's if you count guys who sort of have a "servicable guy" career as successes. So a GM has to swing, knowing half the time he'll miss. What he needs to get judged on is if his personnel decisions (draft, UDFA, FA, trades) provide what the team needs more often than not.

 

Agree with you about Seantrel. Any good GM would have known he was going to get Crohns disease in year two. That one is all on Whaley, you're correct again, wow, you should be so proud of yourself!!

 

 

LOL. And Goodwin. A good GM would predict Goodwin's broken ribs. And Glenn's kidney.

 

Kouandjio, OTOH, was a calculated risk (known knee problems addressed surgically) that appears to have flamed out.

[dayman]

Disagree with topic.

 

The main reason is the take on the players is off.

 

But also, Whaley's drafts have been consistently above average. The flaw in this analysis is assuming that drafts are something other teams hit out of the park. Whaley has been a good drafter (and FA signer) and for the Bills to sour on a guy like him would be dumb. He would be a GM for another team within 3 years (at most) and we would be in the tank. Let him keep going. We've only gotten more talented each year under his reign.

Edited January 2, 2016 by dayman

[C.Biscuit97]

Good GMs: the ones with franchise Qbs.

 

It's hilarious how some posters act like GMs never miss picks. The Pats miss on picks all the time. We don't have a top 5 qb so our misses stand out more. We had a winning record with Kyle Orton last year.

 

And whaley's biggest problem with the EJ pick is he and Marrone weren't on the same page. If you pick a qb that high, the GM and the coach better be on the same page. Now, Marrone is coaching olines.

[Mike in Horseheads]

Preston Brown was a good draft pick also until the Rex scheme came to town.