atlbillsfan1975 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 I still can't get over 2004. I was really high on Roethlisberger, not moving up to get him, then trading up to get Losman, then missing out on Rodgers with the pick we traded was the ultimate kick in the juevos. Do you really think Rivers or Rodgers would of been the players they are If the Bills had drafted them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 I still can't get over 2004. I was really high on Roethlisberger, not moving up to get him, then trading up to get Losman, then missing out on Rodgers with the pick we traded was the ultimate kick in the juevos. I thought ol'Whitey tried to trade up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jkgobills Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 I used to say that I want to watch the Bill in the SB with my dad 1 more time before he dies. Now I am being realistic and saying I just want to watch a playoff game with him CBF 5 years ago my Dad, and fellow Buffalo Bills lifelong fan, was dying from terminal cancer. During one of our conversations in those final weeks my Dad said "it sucks that I don't have enough time left to see the Bills win a Super Bowl" I replied: " Dad, I don't think any of us have enough time left to see the Bills win a Super Bowl". We had a good laugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 When the new owner realizes that continuity matters. The constant shuffle trying to find the new hot coach is probably one of the worst characteristics of the last 15+ years. Many here are headhunters, always looking to impart blame immediately on coaching and on scouting. I'd prefer to see Whaley and Rex stay and see what a number of years drafting with the same mindset and systems in place gets you. The equation comes down simply to a QB. The hot new coaching candidate always ends up where? On a team drafting near the top and without a QB. That hot new coach gets fired all the time... Why does he go from can't miss to also ran? Usually a bad QB. The list of coaches who are hot candidates every year is lengthy, they're run out as can't miss saviors and three years later, they're gone. How about Jim Zorn, I looked at Washington first. He was a hot candidate after polishing a turd with Matt Hasselbeck in Seattle. He flamed out in DC after two seasons. Or Jay Gruden now with Washington. He was handed a Tecmo Bowl QB in RGIII and then Cousins, who some here clamor for but it just a mediocre QB. How about Cleveland? Pettine's done. The hot candidates before him died slow deaths without QBs.... Crennel, Mangini, Shurmur. How about the Jets.... Herm Edwards, Mangini, Rex, and certainly Bowles is next because we know what Fitz and they know what Geno is. These are basically off the top of my head, there's more. But the point is clear you can't win in this league without a QB, it just doesn't matter who your coach is, just doesn't. Rex didn't win in NY because the QBs he had sucked. If Rex sucked, why isn't Geno staring over Fitz now? And why is Sanchez only starting for an injured Bradford? You need to find a decent QB if you can't get a franchise QB and take the Bengals approach. Same coach, but the team and systems around a QB and continuity. I also think blaming a QB for missing is misguided. GMs are in tough positions when to comes to QBs. The supply is continually more limited in terms of quality and the pressure to find one (demand) is increasingly high. They overdraft and miss, a lot. The should really just draft one a year not in the first and see what shakes out unless a sure fire franchise guy ends up in your lap. Can't fault Whaley/NIx for trying with Manuel, that's the demands of the league. EJ sucks. But they had to take a guy that year and who did they pass on? Here, let me refresh your memory... Geno, Barkley, Nassib, Glennon and it gets worse from there. They were in a no win situation, had to take one and they all sucked. They would have been roasted for not taking one. Sure you can. Of no one in the draft class is worth a Damn why take one early? If you "have" to take one, take one later in the draft. I can certainly fault them for reaching up that high for (and more importantly, committing to) a mediocre prospect. And if they genuinely thought EJ Manuel was a good enough prospect to warrant legitimate first round consideration then that calls a lot into question about their ability to scout the position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UBBullsfan Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 I agree we need to get players that fit Ryan's scheme. However, I'm not sure if I agree with you on Mario Williams. He doesn't fit Ryan's scheme, and quite frankly doesn't always show up to play. I've never seen a guy with such great career stats fail to show up for so many games. He occasionally has great games where he seems to compile all his stats. Then on other Sunday's he doesn't show up at all. Mario Williams epitomizes this years Bills better than any player as far as I'm concerned. Loads of talent but a lack of heart and killer instinct. He just doesn't play up to what his stats may indicate. I'm sure Texan fans are quite happy to have Watt. The guy never takes plays off, and shows up every week. Players that fit Ryan's scheme. So paycheck guys who don't like to practice hard or get yelled at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 I still can't get over 2004. I was really high on Roethlisberger, not moving up to get him, then trading up to get Losman, then missing out on Rodgers with the pick we traded was the ultimate kick in the juevos. This is not exactly correct. 2004 draft , Tom Donahoe had trade agreed upon with Houston to move up and select Roethlisberger ahead of Steelers pick ( he knew they coveted Ben). Was a done deal and was reported on ESPN by Chris Mortenson. Bills fans should be mad at Atlanta. They selected a CB ( Hall ? Forget the first name but he later played for Redskins) and Houston backed out of the trade as they weren't sure they would get their man ( Dunta Robinson) with Bills pick , fearing a run on CBs. So as angry as I was , couldn't fault Donahoe. Just wish he had waited for Rodgers the next year but I don't think he was that highly regarded at the time. Leodis over Flacco was awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 I posted the odds of missing the playoffs this many times in a row several years ago. It goes well beyond blind luck at this point. There is something in the water perhaps. One might even conclude this is a demonstration of skill, that the team is intentionally trying to not make the playoffs. Edit: Back of napkin calculation, something like a 0.05% chance of pulling off a 16 year streak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 The truth? This won't end until the team builds an offense. They spend so many picks on defense, but I can't remember the last time we drafted a QB or OL in round 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) It will end when new ownership wakes up and stops listening to the marketing guy, and hires an actual football man to run the football operations side of the team. This team is in desperate need of a team president that actually knows football, and how to build a winning NFL team. The Bills had a guy like that back in the late 80's early 90's with Bill Polian, and the Pegula's reached out to him in the off season but he declined the job. It was reported that the new owners would hire a senior football adviser (football czar), and they never did. I'm hoping the do that after this season, hire a man like Packers GM Ted Thompson and promote him to team president. The hiring of a 4-12 Jets head coach is looking more, and more like a huge mistake, and the real conundrum is with this years defense. The #1 sacking team in the NFL last season is now 30th!! The defensive guru has fallen, and he can't get up! This years offense with last years defense, and this team is 9-2. JMO Edited December 3, 2015 by Nihilarian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordio Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 The truth? This won't end until the team builds an offense. They spend so many picks on defense, but I can't remember the last time we drafted a QB or OL in round 1. What the hell are you talking about. We just took Manuel in round one a few years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave in Avon Lake now Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Ok it took me a little while to get to this subject, but for what it's worth I'm a Pirates fan and it took us 20 years to even have a winning record. In 2011 & 2012, we even had a winning record only to falter in late season. Finally in 2013 we broke through and even made the playoffs as a wild card. This is in a league that is in a relatively small market and no salary cap. I'm hoping the same magic hits the Bills. Last year was close and this year we may even get closer, but at least we've had 2 seasons of winning records in that time. Things could be worse my friends. Beat Houston and its on to Philly. I think we still have a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 No it wasn't.. I wont argue over this years results. But if you are speaking about Doug Marrone? I must disagree. and sabotage is a strong word. Rebuild might be closer, but not quite correct either The team that Ryan inherited was an upgrade from last year's 9-7 team, especially on offense. Although our OL still has issues it is markedly better with the addition of Incognito. It isn't great but with the exception at RT the line is competent. As much as some people complain about our qbing situation it is better with TT than it was with Orton. The addition of playmakers such as McCoy and Clay definitely increased the potency of the offense compared to what existed last year. The staffing of this year's defense was very similar to last year's staffing. Adding Darby at CB was an upgrade. Without a doubt doubt injuries have taken a toll. But Ryan inherited a top tier defense and by any measurement he he has downgraded it. The altering of the defensive scheme has diminished the performances of Dareus and Mario, who were top tier players under Schwartz. Anyone with an ounce of objectivity has to acknowledge that the unlikeable Marrone got more out of the talent he had to work with than the current self-promoting huckster HC has gotten out of his roster. It's not surprising that this sloppy HC leads a team that is frequently penalized and doesn't consistently play with intelligence. What is evident to anyone watching these games is that coaching matters! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Yet our defense sucks. You know those little glider airplanes that kids make out of balsa wood? It's like that. Only the kid was handed a brick instead of balsa wood. Cool looking stone slab, but how does it soar? One might apply the same to the offense. It's not like this OL looked anything remotely like the 49ers collection of 1st round picks and man-mountain studs. The OL under Marrone was a total disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) It just is really frustrating...look at all the perennial bottom dwellers that have become good over the last few years: Pittsburgh Pirates--missed the playoffs for 21 years now are one of the best teams in baseball. It sucks for them they have to play in the same division as the Cardinals... Chicago Cubs---they have been really bad, gotten OK, back to being really bad and now appear to be on the cusp of one of the best young teams in baseball Milwaukee Brewers---yeah they suck now but had a few year run in there where they were pretty good and made the playoffs twice between 2008 and 2011...after not being in for 25 years. Kansas City Royals--made the playoffs for the first time last year after 29 years, were the laughingstock of baseball for numerous years, finishing worst or 2nd worst in their division 16 of those years...made it to the world series before losing in 7 last year and won the world series this year... Toronto BlueJays---made the playoffs for the first time in 23 years this year, and had one of the best teams in baseball, leading the majors in runs by a long way... Golden State Warriors---were a joke for much of their existence...made the playoffs once in the last 20 years before becoming good the last 3 years and winning the championship last year... I'm sure there are more I am missing but these are off the top of my head... It's time for this to end! All these crap ass teams have become good and we are still CRAP!! Edited December 3, 2015 by matter2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Hey, If Greece can with the Euro Cup, there is hope for the Bills to make the playoffs! CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 It just is really frustrating...look at all the perennial bottom dwellers that have become good over the last few years: Pittsburgh Pirates--missed the playoffs for 21 years now are one of the best teams in baseball. It sucks for them they have to play in the same division as the Cardinals... Chicago Cubs---they have been really bad, gotten OK, back to being really bad and now appear to be on the cusp of one of the best young teams in baseball Milwaukee Brewers---yeah they suck now but had a few year run in there where they were pretty good and made the playoffs twice between 2008 and 2011...after not being in for 25 years. Kansas City Royals--made the playoffs for the first time last year after 29 years, were the laughingstock of baseball for numerous years, finishing worst or 2nd worst in their division 16 of those years...made it to the world series before losing in 7 last year and won the world series this year... Toronto BlueJays---made the playoffs for the first time in 23 years this year, and had one of the best teams in baseball, leading the majors in runs by a long way... Golden State Warriors---were a joke for much of their existence...made the playoffs once in the last 20 years before becoming good the last 3 years and winning the championship last year... I'm sure there are more I am missing but these are off the top of my head... It's time for this to end! All these crap ass teams have become good and we are still CRAP!! And baseball is an uneven playing field. Certain clubs enjoy gigantic economic advantages. Add that fewer MLB teams make the playoffs annually than in the NFL. So the sports aren't apples to apples. But to the larger point: yes, it is possible for a franchise to get turned around. Even the Bills did it in the late 80s and early 90s. In the NFL, it is hard to be this bad for this long. Other dysfunctional teams take advantage of weak schedules, a fluke hot-steak (RG3), or whatever—heck, even Tim Couch took the Browns to the playoffs—to slip into the playoffs here and there. The NFL system is designed to do precisely that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Sure you can. Of no one in the draft class is worth a Damn why take one early? If you "have" to take one, take one later in the draft. I can certainly fault them for reaching up that high for (and more importantly, committing to) a mediocre prospect. And if they genuinely thought EJ Manuel was a good enough prospect to warrant legitimate first round consideration then that calls a lot into question about their ability to scout the position. Agreed, because these are the same guys who gave themselves a gold star with Ryan Fitzpicks. The argument has been made in other ways, but there simply is no legitimate excuse for a qualified NFL GM to not always be on the lookout for the next guy to lead his team. The clown show came up with Tyler Thinwing Thigpen and Kevin Konkussion Kolb. You really have to wonder. Are they going out of their way to be this bad? Some of these decisions ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 1964, 1965.......(25 years).......1990, 1991, 1992, 1993........(25 years)........2018, 2019, 2020, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 And baseball is an uneven playing field. Certain clubs enjoy gigantic economic advantages. Add that fewer MLB teams make the playoffs annually than in the NFL. So the sports aren't apples to apples. But to the larger point: yes, it is possible for a franchise to get turned around. Even the Bills did it in the late 80s and early 90s. In the NFL, it is hard to be this bad for this long. Other dysfunctional teams take advantage of weak schedules, a fluke hot-steak (RG3), or whatever—heck, even Tim Couch took the Browns to the playoffs—to slip into the playoffs here and there. The NFL system is designed to do precisely that. It is often wrong to compare franchises in different sports. Baseball is less capped than football and basketball. But for historically bad franchises, such as the Buffalo Bills, much of its failure are due to its own organizational ineptitude more than its lack of resources. Ralph Wilson was more stringent with the purse than most of the other owners in his sport but that didn't fully explain his team's lack of competitiveness. Ralph was notorious for hiring less than competent people who unsurprisingly made peculiar decisions. Did anyone expect Marv Levy to be a capable GM? He was followed by the marketing gentleman, Russ Brandon, and then was followed by the good old boy, Buddy Nix, who would not have been considered a legitimate candidate for the position that the owner selected him for. KC Royals just won the World Series. They certainly don't profligately spend money. The St. Louis Cardinals are in my estimation the best run franchise in their sport. They have solid financial resources but are not known to recklessly spend money. In the NBA San Antonio is not a major market and they are not known to be undisciplined with the way they handle money. Yet they have been consistently good and smartly run. The central point I am making is obvious. If you don't smartly run your franchise, in whatever sport you want to consider, you will not be successful. Rex Ryan had a six year run in NY. The longer he coached the team the worse it got. He got fired from a team he left in shambles. And yet this mercurial organization found this bombastic fool an enticing candidate to be their HC. As the renowned philosopher Forrest Gump has wisely stated: Stupid is as stupid does! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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