Former players convinced me that Rex's D will start clicking

[BackInDaDay]

i'm thinking that last season's efficient pass rush hid our deficient pass defenders..

 

Gilmore is a good CB . Darby will be better. both seem to get lost in space when playing anything but press.

Darby corrects by occasionally holding, but he'll learn.

Gilmore.. i don't know what he's doing some plays.. someone ought to tell him the field isn't 200 yards long.

our Safeties and LBs often lose focus on what coverage is called, and the Safeties don't give help quick enough when our CBs give up inside position downfield.

 

solution? limit their exposure by forcing QB mistakes

[Augie]

So, is Rex still a "Players Coach"?

[ALF]

Here's a good attitude

 

Philly defensive lineman Bennie Logan just fixed that, going on CBS Sports Radio affiliate WIP 94 and uncorking on the Cowboys (2-5).

"They just whine and complain about everything,” Logan said. “Shut up and play ball. I'm gonna hit you hard every snap. Stop complaining about this and this. That just bugs me. You're a man. It's football. Shut up and get hit and take it like a man.”

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25365073/eagles-bennie-logan-cowboys-whine-and-complain-about-everything

[BackInDaDay]

So, is Rex still a "Players Coach"?

 

maybe the question should be - who does he lose first, the fans or the players?

in NY, it was the fans.

[2003Contenders]

Yea, I think reaction to the way the defense has played thus far has been way over the top. I know that the sack numbers are way down, but sacks only represent a piece of the overall defense. In fact, of the first 7 games, I would argue that the defense has played very well in 5 of those games. The remaining two, where the defense struggled, were against teams that are collectively 15-0 and have elite offenses.

 

One hand feeds the other, and if the special teams and offense improve (which they should as guys start getting healthy again) -- then the defense will be in better position to improve as well.

 

Schwartz did a fine job, but the Bills' defense started off a bit slow last year too. Remember Week 3 against the Chargers and Week 6 against the Pats? It takes time for players and new coaches to get on the same page.

[Augie]

maybe the question should be - who does he lose first, the fans or the players?

in NY, it was the fans.

Well...... the race is on!

[YoloinOhio]

Yea, I think reaction to the way the defense has played thus far has been way over the top. I know that the sack numbers are way down, but sacks only represent a piece of the overall defense. In fact, of the first 7 games, I would argue that the defense has played very well in 5 of those games. The remaining two, where the defense struggled, were against teams that are collectively 15-0 and have elite offenses.

 

One hand feeds the other, and if the special teams and offense improve (which they should as guys start getting healthy again) -- then the defense will be in better position to improve as well.

 

Schwartz did a fine job, but the Bills' defense started off a bit slow last year too. Remember Week 3 against the Chargers and Week 6 against the Pats? It takes time for players and new coaches to get on the same page.

well said and I will again add that there should be shared accountability between the players and coaches to get better, not just complaints about the scheme. No one was complaining in TC when they were so excited about it. 3 of the 4 on the DL signed extensions with the team after Rex was hired. Time to man up or shut up with these guys. The coaches said they have simplified things in the bye week, let's see them execute. And I don't care about sack numbers either. Just stop the opponent when it counts, and win. Edited November 6, 2015 by YoloinOhio

[BackInDaDay]

Yea, I think reaction to the way the defense has played thus far has been way over the top. I know that the sack numbers are way down, but sacks only represent a piece of the overall defense. In fact, of the first 7 games, I would argue that the defense has played very well in 5 of those games. The remaining two, where the defense struggled, were against teams that are collectively 15-0 and have elite offenses.

 

One hand feeds the other, and if the special teams and offense improve (which they should as guys start getting healthy again) -- then the defense will be in better position to improve as well.

 

Schwartz did a fine job, but the Bills' defense started off a bit slow last year too. Remember Week 3 against the Chargers and Week 6 against the Pats? It takes time for players and new coaches to get on the same page.

 

yes, it takes a complete team effort to get wins.. but let's not excuse our problems against the best teams in the league - unless we're not trying to be one of them.

Well...... the race is on!

 

yep.. who knew that we had a three horse race when Marrone and Mularkey were here? do we lead the league in coaches who quit?

[Nihilarian]

 

I agree with some of this - but the Marrone situation was different for a number of reasons. He came in at 6-10 to a team that wasn't ready to go all in. He went 6-10 then improved to 9-7 (best mark for TEN years) he also wasn't calling plays on offense - and we were all shouting for the head of the guy who was. Rex came in to a 9-7 team - if we get WORSE as a result of what was the strength of the team and the strength of the Head Coach and play caller then I think he should and will be under pressure. I doubt he will be fired, but I think it would put him on the year 2 hotseat. Personally I would move on but that is probably to do with where I started from on Rex - I thought he was the wrong hire.

 

Your description on defense is right if a bit simplistic, it is about the more that rushing and pressure - there are coverage problems too at the linebacker level which Badol wrote an excellent synopsis on the other day. I never thought Harvin was a good pick up - I have always believed him to be overrated, and I agree with what others have said - no way Rex cans Thurman.

My point was that Marrone was a very bad hire as HC with an offensive background, and somehow the new owners didn't see it at all. Schwartz was the good hire.

 

Saying that, I highly doubt these new owners will ever figure out whats wrong with their Ryan hire. They will probably buy into Ryan's claim of the current players aren't smart enough to understand his so very complicated defense(which is complete bullcrap), and the injuries. The injuries are mostly on the offensive side with the skill players, and one safety, one DT shouldn't lead to the downfall of a defense.

 

Like you I wasn't a big fan of the Rex Ryan hire mostly because I relished how lost he looked on the sideline last year getting smoked 43-23 by the Bills, and then Ryan boasting his team will play 1000% better in the next game only to be humiliated 38-3 by Buffalo. I just don't get how compelling it was for these new owners to hire a 4-12 HC, and a guy who was good only in his first two years out of six.

 

 

As far as the Bills secondary goes both Gilmore, and Darby have been more then good enough in coverage, IMO. The biggest reason for being 17th currently in pass defense is that they are up from 30th after that historically bad Patriots game in which Ryan had his DB's playing ten yards off the line in soft pass coverage. Since then to be honest I think the secondary has been outstanding given the lack of pass rush this year. The less pressure you get on the QB the longer the DB's need to stay in coverage. Think about that for a minute...this year the Bills are currently 30th in sacks, and 29th in QB hurries.

 

Just to give those numbers context last season the Bills were #1 in sacks with 54 sacks all year 2014, and #2 in sacks with 57 sacks in 2013. This year after 7 games they have only 11 sacks. To me Its all about the lack of pressure on the opposing QB this year so far.

 

Buffalo Bills sack masters this year,

 

Corey Graham 1.0

Nigel Bradham 1.0

Nickell Roby 1.0

Marcell Dareus 1.0

Jerry Hughes 1.0

Duke Williams 1.0

Kyle Willams 1.0

Stefan Charles 1.0

Mario Williams 3.0

 

But yes, in the end should the Bills finish worse then 7-9, and continue to fail to comprehend how best to utilize the defensive players on the roster. I would be for a new HC hire mostly because I don't want to see more wasted years in rebuilding a new defense with new players because the current man can't figure out how to best use the players already here.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Nihilarian

[The Frankish Reich]

My point was that Marrone was a very bad hire as HC with an offensive background, and somehow the new owners didn't see it at all. Schwartz was the good hire.

 

Saying that, I highly doubt these new owners will ever figure out whats wrong with their Ryan hire. They will probably buy into Ryan's claim of the current players aren't smart enough to understand his so very complicated defense(which is complete bullcrap), and the injuries. The injuries are mostly on the offensive side with the skill players, and one safety, one DT shouldn't lead to the downfall of a defense.

 

Like you I wasn't a big fan of the Rex Ryan hire mostly because I relished how lost he looked on the sideline last year getting smoked 43-23 by the Bills, and then Ryan boasting his team will play 1000% better in the next game only to be humiliated 38-3 by Buffalo. I just don't get how compelling it was for these new owners to hire a 4-12 HC, and a guy who was good only in his first two years out of six.

 

 

As far as the Bills secondary goes both Gilmore, and Darby have been more then good enough in coverage, IMO. The biggest reason for being 17th currently in pass defense is that they are up from 30th after that historically bad Patriots game in which Ryan had his DB's playing ten yards off the line in soft pass coverage. Since then to be honest I think the secondary has been outstanding given the lack of pass rush this year. The less pressure you get on the QB the longer the DB's need to stay in coverage. Think about that for a minute...this year the Bills are currently 30th in sacks, and 29th in QB hurries.

 

Just to give those numbers context last season the Bills were #1 in sacks with 54 sacks all year 2014, and #2 in sacks with 57 sacks in 2013. This year after 7 games they have only 11 sacks. To me Its all about the lack of pressure on the opposing QB this year so far.

 

Buffalo Bills sack masters this year,

 

Corey Graham 1.0

Nigel Bradham 1.0

Nickell Roby 1.0

Marcell Dareus 1.0

Jerry Hughes 1.0

Duke Williams 1.0

Kyle Willams 1.0

Stefan Charles 1.0

Mario Williams 3.0

 

But yes, in the end should the Bills finish worse then 7-9, and continue to fail to comprehend how best to utilize the defensive players on the roster. I would be for a new HC hire mostly because I don't want to see more wasted years in rebuilding a new defense with new players because the current man can't figure out how to best use the players already here.

Awesome post. That says it all. And it's not as if any of our key pass rushers have missed significant time. A drop-off like this is inexplicable, except the explanation -- the only possible explanation -- must be Rex.

[GunnerBill]

My point was that Marrone was a very bad hire as HC with an offensive background, and somehow the new owners didn't see it at all. Schwartz was the good hire.

 

Saying that, I highly doubt these new owners will ever figure out whats wrong with their Ryan hire. They will probably buy into Ryan's claim of the current players aren't smart enough to understand his so very complicated defense(which is complete bullcrap), and the injuries. The injuries are mostly on the offensive side with the skill players, and one safety, one DT shouldn't lead to the downfall of a defense.

 

Like you I wasn't a big fan of the Rex Ryan hire mostly because I relished how lost he looked on the sideline last year getting smoked 43-23 by the Bills, and then Ryan boasting his team will play 1000% better in the next game only to be humiliated 38-3 by Buffalo. I just don't get how compelling it was for these new owners to hire a 4-12 HC, and a guy who was good only in his first two years out of six.

 

 

As far as the Bills secondary goes both Gilmore, and Darby have been more then good enough in coverage, IMO. The biggest reason for being 17th currently in pass defense is that they are up from 30th after that historically bad Patriots game in which Ryan had his DB's playing ten yards off the line in soft pass coverage. Since then to be honest I think the secondary has been outstanding given the lack of pass rush this year. The less pressure you get on the QB the longer the DB's need to stay in coverage. Think about that for a minute...this year the Bills are currently 30th in sacks, and 29th in QB hurries.

 

Just to give those numbers context last season the Bills were #1 in sacks with 54 sacks all year 2014, and #2 in sacks with 57 sacks in 2013. This year after 7 games they have only 11 sacks. To me Its all about the lack of pressure on the opposing QB this year so far.

 

Buffalo Bills sack masters this year,

 

Corey Graham 1.0

Nigel Bradham 1.0

Nickell Roby 1.0

Marcell Dareus 1.0

Jerry Hughes 1.0

Duke Williams 1.0

Kyle Willams 1.0

Stefan Charles 1.0

Mario Williams 3.0

 

But yes, in the end should the Bills finish worse then 7-9, and continue to fail to comprehend how best to utilize the defensive players on the roster. I would be for a new HC hire mostly because I don't want to see more wasted years in rebuilding a new defense with new players because the current man can't figure out how to best use the players already here.

To be clear I wasn't saying there were coverage problems from the corners - it is at the linebacker spots we have had real communication breakdowns and coverage issues.

 

Also I don't think Marrone was a great xs and os coach but I do think he was a good motivator and got his team prepared. New England at home got away from us 2nd half but other than that we were in every game last year pretty much to the end. I can't remember another occassion in my 13 years of watching this team that I can say that.

 

I am in general agreement with your sentiments though.

[John from Riverside]

It is completely unacceptable to go from 1st to last in sacks and QB pressures......

 

but

 

Lots of season left to be played

[3rdand12]

It is completely unacceptable to go from 1st to last in sacks and QB pressures......

 

but

 

Lots of season left to be played

Pressures yes.

Sacks dont care

Passes defended yes

Hurries yes

just do these things well and the turnover pct will rise.

Rex wanted the secondary to be the glory hogs.

he sure better adjust to Bills players strength and exp. Pressure that QB physically and stop trying to outsmart him. aint workin' Ryan.

[San-O]

... too late.

[3rdand12]

... too late.

never to late to fix something that aint right. never.

save the season? not sure, thats why i dont like his bluster.

 

Rex is a character and means well. I do believe that. but as so many have said. win the games. and then tell me about it

[Nihilarian]

To be clear I wasn't saying there were coverage problems from the corners - it is at the linebacker spots we have had real communication breakdowns and coverage issues.

 

Also I don't think Marrone was a great xs and os coach but I do think he was a good motivator and got his team prepared. New England at home got away from us 2nd half but other than that we were in every game last year pretty much to the end. I can't remember another occasion in my 13 years of watching this team that I can say that.

 

I am in general agreement with your sentiments though.

Me either!

 

During that Patriots game I watched Jerry Hughes drop back into pass coverage on TE Rob Gronkowski, and saw him break up a pass 30 yards downfield. I watched Kyle Williams dropping ten yards backwards in a pass cover zone. I dunno maybe its just me, but when I see a DE 30 yards downfield defending the pass I ask myself how gassed is this man going to be on the next play trying to rush the passer? How much does it take away from a 300lb DT to cover a 30 yard area in pass coverage, and perhaps need to chase down a TE or RB on a play. Instead of the 6 yard area he would normally cover?

 

In any event the Bills are simply not rotating the D line players as much this year as they did last year under Schwartz. This alone makes a huge difference in the 4th quarter, and especially so if the defense has been on the field a lot of the game.

 

 

I have two theory's on that Patriots game: Either the fix was in by the NFL, by Tom & Giselle's millions / Robert Kraft's millions! To see Brady become the greatest of all time in NFL history this year!

 

Or perhaps Ryan is attempting to emulate the Seahawks defense in his own crazy way! Their "4-3 over" defense, and mixing it up all over to a Jets 4-3 under. Mostly just have the two DE's rush the QB, and their DT's are not a gap penetrators like Kyke Williams / Marcell Dareus are, and instead have them playing more gap control, and taking on two gaps while playing the run. That Seahawk defense is setup at times so that the linebackers can run around and make plays while not allowing the front four to just rush the passer. This might explain why the players are saying its overly complex, and are having a difficult time executing it. Mostly because that Seahawk defense is overly complex, and the Buffalo Bills just don't have the personnel to run that defense. Particularly at the safety, LB positions.

 

I'm not a defensive guy, and its just a thought.

[GunnerBill]

I was talking about New England at home last year not this year.

 

The Seahawks defense is much more like the Schwartz defense than the Ryan defense. It is just about discipline and letting talented players use their talents to make plays.

[The Frankish Reich]

I was talking about New England at home last year not this year.

 

The Seahawks defense is much more like the Schwartz defense than the Ryan defense. It is just about discipline and letting talented players use their talents to make plays.

And as folks mentioned, it has also been about rotating defensive linemen to keep them fresh. That's been an increasing problem as they've lost depth, but it is a key common quality between Schwartz's D last year and the Seahawks dominant Ds the past few years.

[Best Player Available]

So, is Rex still a "Players Coach"?

The Question is when this season is he going to start coaching? And start holding players, coaches, responsible? The old coachs post game BS talk is getting tiresome fast.

[Dan]

well said and I will again add that there should be shared accountability between the players and coaches to get better, not just complaints about the scheme. No one was complaining in TC when they were so excited about it. 3 of the 4 on the DL signed extensions with the team after Rex was hired. Time to man up or shut up with these guys. The coaches said they have simplified things in the bye week, let's see them execute. And I don't care about sack numbers either. Just stop the opponent when it counts, and win.

Your last sentence says it all. We can talk about the player stats and the field position and the QB giving up 3 turnovers and the penalties and all that. But the bottom line is this defense is not getting it done when it counts.

 

People blame EJ for the loss to Jax, and yes he sucked it and showed us all why he's not starting, but.... he also dug himself out of that hole and got the lead back. The defense wasn't overly tired or anything, yet when it mattered most... They couldn't stop Jax from driving all the way down the field and winning the game. That's on the defense, plain and simple. Man up coaches and players, stop making excuses and stop them when it counts.

 

I figured the defense would take some time to come together under Rex and an entirely new staff, but what I didn't expect was that at mid way through the season I'd feel better with the offense on the field with 5 mins left in the game, needing a score to win versus having the defense on the field needing to make a stop to secure the win.