TakeYouToTasker Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 PPG is skewed by TO's. YPP is and always will be the best stat. Wins and losses are dictated by points scored. YPP is arbitrary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Flutie Band Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 The EJ lovers are funny. They have some weird emotional investment, and search for any way to distort the truth into painting a picture of EJ somehow being a viable QB. He'll never start anywhere except Buffalo, and will be lucky to latch if he can latch on as a backup somewhere. Most likely out of the league before 2019. DON'T STOP BELIEVING HOLD ON TO THE FEELIIIIIING Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Wins and losses are dictated by points scored. YPP is arbitrary. Since we aren't discussing wins and losses, but defensive prowess, that's irrelevant. If an offense throws a pick-six, the defense looks worse. Or if the offense fumbles on their 20 and the defense allows a FG, they look worse. Neither are indicators of how good of a defense they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 (edited) Since we aren't discussing wins and losses, but defensive prowess, that's irrelevant. If an offense throws a pick-six, the defense looks worse. Or if the offense fumbles on their 20 and the defense allows a FG, they look worse. Neither are indicators of how good of a defense they are. I'll refine it further: the Titans are 29th in the league in opponents offensive TDs against, surrendering 3.0 per game, and they are 29th in the league in opponents points surrendered per offensive play against with .462. Edited October 20, 2015 by TakeYouToTasker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I'll refine it further: the Titans are 29th in the league in opponents offensive TDs against, surrendering 3.0 per game, and they are 29th in the league in opponents points surrendered per offensive play against with .462. I can do this too, manipulate statistics. The Titans are 4th in the league in percentage of drives ending in scores at 28%. They also have the lowest average plays per drive in the NFL at 5 plays and they are 5th in the NFL in average yards per drive at 28.6. You can point to PPG game all you want but at 5 games in all the Titans need is one game to throw those stats off. The sample size isn't big enough yet. Whereas through 56 drives against, a larger sample size, the Titans defense are tops in the league not allowing scores, not allowing plays and not allowing yards when their defense is on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenigmusx Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Absolutely. EJ has been on a rampage this season with the torrent of injuries he's caused - and the throw to Watkin that broke his ankle is uncalled for and certainly not the sign of a team player. Yeah, especially because it was a throw on the run that was "Easy" to make. It only accounted for the touchdown that goat the Bills back in the game. Come on people. Truth- neither has been lights out but neither has been Geno Smith horrible either. No 3 pick games, very little forcing things that aren't there. Some missing wide open receivers and too many 3 and outs but the O-line is also responsible for many of those. I thought we just need a good conservative young QB with our Defense. I think "ALL" of our problems thus far has to be hung right on that Defense. If the D performed as it did last year we would be 5-1 the Bengals game would have been a loss anyway. The defense is ill primarily because of Scheme issues. Rex fix it!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 It's the accuracy that does EJ in. He will never be a starter in the NFL (or even a quality back-up) if he can't be more accurate. Just about every crossing throw was like 2 yards behind the receiver. I agree with the OP, but only so TT can get healthy and use his legs against the Dolphins. EJ is less accurate than TT, but both miss on open WR so they need to keep working on making their progressions. That is what I see as the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOVABillsFan Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 PPG is skewed by TO's. YPP is and always will be the best stat. 6 carries for 60 yards, 5 of them for 1 yard, one for 55 yards on a busted play will get you an average of 10 ypp. ypp is a good indicator, but it is just a small fraction of the entire game in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 (edited) 6 carries for 60 yards, 5 of them for 1 yard, one for 55 yards on a busted play will get you an average of 10 ypp. Yes, but a better defense is less likely to allow that 55 yard run, no? Also, you could make that same argument for PPG. Edited October 20, 2015 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOVABillsFan Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 (edited) The EJ lovers are funny. They have some weird emotional investment, and search for any way to distort the truth into painting a picture of EJ somehow being a viable QB. He'll never start anywhere except Buffalo, and will be lucky to latch if he can latch on as a backup somewhere. Most likely out of the league before 2019. DON'T STOP BELIEVING HOLD ON TO THE FEELIIIIIING Excuse me sir, but can't the same be said of team Taylor? They look for ways to distort the truth painting a picture of how great Taylor is. Under Taylor the team has done well and not so well. Those are the results we have seen thus far. Scoring in September is always high until opposing defenses get game film to study. If you grasp onto September scoring and think it will continue then you just might be fooling yourself. I doubt many are calling for EJ to replace TT. One can also argue that 5 games is not a good point of time to say that TT can or will be a viable long term starter for Buffalo or any team. Yes, but a better defense is less likely to allow that 55 yard run, no? Also, you could make that same argument for PPG. In any given game there is a chance that one player can break a long play and that single play on busted coverage or a missed holding call may also be the factor in a win. Edited October 20, 2015 by NOVABillsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Yes EJ rolling Right and throwing on the run caused Watkins to roll his ankle. How dare we ask a WR to stop and sit down in an open spot. The Turf and choice of Cleats got Watkins hurt not EJ. Give me a break. I award you no breaks. And may God have mercy on your soul. Stats can be decieving. EJ continually threw underneath on third down, knowing he would not get the first down. He does not deliver the ball with nearly the crispness and accuracy of Tyrod. He does not convey the sense of confidence in his team mates that Tyrod Taylor does. There are other things that are intangibles that are hard to quantify. I know you have your opinion, but I can't beleive that anyone can watch these two guys and conclude that EJ Manuel is the better option. There's no room here for intelligent, accurate assessment here. EJ is the Answer! -to something.. some day.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatplow Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I really wish the EJ **** would stop. Regardless of what Rex tells the media in public, there was a reason why EJ was the #3 behind Cassel before he was magically traded off to Dallas. Maybe now after this last game and possibly / probably another in London, Whaley will finally resign to the fact that made a mistake and move the !@#$ on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobu Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaltimoreFanBills Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 What is it with the love for EJ??? Not once in the Cincy game did I feel like we were going to come back and win with EJ. The stats between TT and EJ could be exactly the same but at least TT gives us an edge with his athletic ability. EJ just flat out doesn't have it. Get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan2015 Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 TT got Sammy insured when he had to jump up for that catch in the endzone a few weeks back.....ARE YOU KIDDING ME...do you think all the qbs in this league make perfect throws ...NO you just don't watch all the games to see this ....highlights only show the good ones. Everyone is excited cause TT can run like a running back...and he doesn't throw the ball bad either, BUT he doesn't make as many throws for within the pocket which can cause O-Line to have holding penalties when he starts moving around so much. Both qbs are playing ok.....both qbs don't have much game experience yet.....EJ has gotten better each year and didn't play bad for not playing a game that means something for almost a year, and with all the na-saying rooting against him. I sometimes wonder if fans really understand the games they watch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 TT got Sammy insured when he had to jump up for that catch in the endzone a few weeks back.....ARE YOU KIDDING ME...do you think all the qbs in this league make perfect throws ...NO you just don't watch all the games to see this ....highlights only show the good ones. Everyone is excited cause TT can run like a running back...and he doesn't throw the ball bad either, BUT he doesn't make as many throws for within the pocket which can cause O-Line to have holding penalties when he starts moving around so much. Both qbs are playing ok.....both qbs don't have much game experience yet.....EJ has gotten better each year and didn't play bad for not playing a game that means something for almost a year, and with all the na-saying rooting against him. I sometimes wonder if fans really understand the games they watch Are you seriously arguing that EJ didn't control that throw in such a way that he knew the outcome before Sammy tore those ligaments and damn near lost his foot?? Do you even watch games? EJ purposefully threw it low and away (from his baseball days) and knew Sammy would strain himself trying to catch it. Thank God for Sammy and his agility and athleticism. Now he's sidelined with an injury thanks to EJ...just like Percy, Shady, Goodwin and Kyle Williams. Great job EJ!!!... your reckless decision making is killing our our team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan2015 Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Are you seriously arguing that EJ didn't control that throw in such a way that he knew the outcome before Sammy tore those ligaments and damn near lost his foot?? Do you even watch games? EJ purposefully threw it low and away (from his baseball days) and knew Sammy would strain himself trying to catch it. Thank God for Sammy and his agility and athleticism. Now he's sidelined with an injury thanks to EJ...just like Percy, Shady, Goodwin and Kyle Williams. Great job EJ!!!... your reckless decision making is killing our our team. yeah EJ injured percy, shady, Williams.....with arguments like that is why I hate fans like YOU.....watch the other games around league EVERY qb makes throws like that .....and then everyone praises them for throwing it only where the receiver could catch it....do us all a favor and root for another them.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Tyrod is your starting QB. The Bills are team Tyrod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent 91 Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Because, Agent 91 - EJ Manuel is a menace to society and needs to be stopped. I'm surprised you overlooked his intentions with that pass. It seemed everyone in the stadium surely was more angered with the pass than the resulting 6 points it netted the team. Lol you are right... i am a terrible fan and a complete ninny when it comes to football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanInUticaTampa Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I dont think there is much of a difference for production. I think EJ has more potential still (I know, I know, he has had his chances) but Tyrod gives us a better chance to win now I think, since I think he makes less mistakes. I also don't want to yoyo QBs all season like the texans. Tyrod won the QB battle fair and sqaure, let him finish the season unless he gets injured. EJ played ok last game, but he didn't do anything to take the starting job away from Tyrod. And I was one who would have gone with EJ at the begining of the the season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent 91 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Will Tyrod get a pass this week when we suck out against the Jags...? People will say he had no talent to work with....others will say bring back EJ....Bengals D is a top 5 this year...EJ played second half with woods, moore, hogan, clay and shady.... Tyrod will have the same group this week against a terrible defense...I think its scary for tyrod not to perform with that group on a higher level or its opens the questions to who is the starter especailly against a weak D like the Jags... EJ had 4 practices with the #1's I think he did what we was suppose to do...keep them close and have the D give him chances to win, unfortunately they didnt. Perfect assessment. Cant be said better. Besides you have to also realize that EJ was still sharing reps with tyrod. So he was NOT the main guy under center in preparation for the bengals Very different game with different style defenses. Also, it was a low scoring game with the Titans with a lot more conservative calls. EJ did have that bad grounding penalty that pushed the Bills back to punt inside their five too. With that said, there is no doubt that Tyrod and the offense did not play well against Tennessee. If Tyrod were out there against Cincinnati, it would have been a similar result no doubt. People don't want to recognize this, but the QB position is not the biggest problem on this team for once and it's not holding them back. The defense, special teams and coaching hasn't been good enough in the three losses and that's it. You are correct. QB is not the issue. Had EJ had his old style game. 170 1 td 60% with the true 1s. Please. I would have packed his bags myself. He opened well. Against the best defense we played thus far. On a short prep week. With Hogan as his marquee receiver. He used Woods VERY WELL and dont forget the 20 yarder at the end of the game they converted that was negated by none other than a penalty. He used Clay well used woods better than Tyrod and looked at Sammy pretty often. Missed him on a 3rd down left sideline wide open BUT he didnt lose the game. He McCoy and co came out and tried to fall the giant. You win some and tou lose some... He did NOT lose this one. Penalties and defense did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent 91 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I want EJM to start against the Jags. It is the perfect chance to let Tyrod get healthy. Of course, what I expect to happen is for Tyrod to take most of the 1st team reps, rush back, reinjure his leg during the Jags game, and be replaced by an EJM that hasn't been prepared. You dont know how the game would have unfolded if EJM started. Shoot we almost don't win that game with Tyrod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent 91 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 We all know these are trained professionals. EJ has the ability to hit a pumpkin on a fence post at 50 yds. Are you seriously telling me EJ's throw was not intentionally low and away in effort to injure Sammy?? I can understand why EJ was upset (with Sammy's comments earlier in the week), but to purposefully cause Sammy to roll an ankle and miss games is not sportmanlike. Reckless throwing on his part. Sarcasm? Kind of ironic because how you started this post stating an inaccurate qb can hit a pumpkin on a fence... how big a pimpkin we talkin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Billieve Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I never had a feeling in yesterday's game that we might come back and win it.....none I have never had a doubt that we might come back and win it with Tyrod Im sorry I know that doesnt match up with the stats......its just a gut feeling I agree. Ball placement on easy throws was appalling. I was really impressed with EJ in the pre-season, and was really shocked with the media's depiction of him, but a couple more games like this . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent 91 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I'm sorry, the Bengals defense is 8th, not 5th. The Titans is 20th, not 2nd. I thought they said the titans were the second... my eye said the bengals were better though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent 91 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 yeah EJ injured percy, shady, Williams.....with arguments like that is why I hate fans like YOU.....watch the other games around league EVERY qb makes throws like that .....and then everyone praises them for throwing it only where the receiver could catch it....do us all a favor and root for another them.... I thought he was being sarcastic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I thought he was being sarcasticAren't you a member of the "EJ injured Sammy" club yet? I thought we had more members. I know there's a few like minded groupies out there. EJ may also be linked to the assassination of JFK, the stock market crash and ebola. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 They can't afford to lose these next two games. Hopefully Tyrod is healthy enough to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 The OP forgot to mention that EJ actually caused Sammy Watkins to injure his ankle yesterday with that horrible, horrible TD throw. How convenient that he left that little morsel out. EJ injures his own teammates. Very true. Mentioned this Sunday. Most everyone wants to blame Watkins but he had to quickly shift weight from one ankle to the other because the throw was terrible. This is how you sprain or pull things, i.e. quick unexpected movements and shifts of weight; happens with hamstrings all the time. Aside from that throw, Taylor is so much better than EJ and has such a better feel for the game. EJ had no business being a first round pick. It was pure desperation and wishful thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Very true. Mentioned this Sunday. Most everyone wants to blame Watkins but he had to quickly shift weight from one ankle to the other because the throw was terrible. This is how you sprain or pull things, i.e. quick unexpected movements and shifts of weight; happens with hamstrings all the time. Aside from that throw, Taylor is so much better than EJ and has such a better feel for the game. EJ had no business being a first round pick. It was pure desperation and wishful thinking.So you are "one of us"? Welcome my brother. We are going to have a Bake Sale this Sunday to help support "Wide Receivers Who Suffer Injuries from Sudden Movements Caused by Horrible Throws" (WRWSISMCHT). Look for our flyers all over town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatplow Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 (edited) I'm still trying to figure out why we're even arguing about who the starting QB should be for this team... I actually watched the game, several times... I'm not quite sure why I'm such a masochist these days when it comes to the Bills, but that's beside the point. EJ is not the reason we lost by a long shot. However, I also don't believe he will be the reason we win a game either. Can he make plays? Yes. Is he athletic? Yes Is he a leader? My opinion, not so much. The latter being arguably one of the most important jobs a QB performs out on the field every game, Taylor appears to have the clear advantage here. There is a calming confidence that he brings to the team, even when they're stinking it up with dumbass penalties every 3rd play from scrimmage. It doesn't stop there either... Defenses have to game plan against Taylor for both his ability to hit the long ball, as well as being one of the most dangerous threats with his legs in the NFL currently. I know he's often compared to Mike Vick, I've even done it myself, but his center of gravity and compact build almost make me think of Barry Sanders when he tucks it and runs. He seems to be able to sense the hits coming and either move enough to break the tackle completely, or just enough to avoid taking any serious punishment. The awkward tackle in the Titans game where he injured his knee was just that, awkward.EJ is what every team would like to have as a backup QB. He's a great team player, humble, hard working and he can bring some constancy and play-making ability to the position when called upon. That being said, Taylor is much more multi-faceted, has the experience of sitting behind a very good QB for four years, and at times, has shown true signs (for the first time in 15+ years), of possibly being the answer at a position that has been a wreck since Jim Kelly retired. Edited October 21, 2015 by Meatplow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOVABillsFan Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Aren't you a member of the "EJ injured Sammy" club yet? I thought we had more members. I know there's a few like minded groupies out there. EJ may also be linked to the assassination of JFK, the stock market crash and ebola. funny stuff. Sammy was running rogue? It looked as if he was scrambling to get open, tried to plant and twisted his ankle. I have to give credit to those people who blame the backup QB for everything wrong in that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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