3rdand12 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 is TT allowed to check out of plays yet? If I had credibility do you think I'd stay in New Jersey? awesome reply. you just earned credibility on my big board!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 they were putting up good #'s for (most of) 3 of 4 games. While this may be true, good teams find a way to win with their backups. It's a bit of a paradox though.... as talent is lost to injury the team gets less good. If Brady and Gronk go out are the pats still as "good"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 It's a bit of a paradox though.... as talent is lost to injury the team gets less good. If Brady and Gronk go out are the pats still as "good"? no. thats as simple as can be said. The opposing team can focus on the less threatening threats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince88 Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 We do with the players that we are supposed to be playing with. Not with the makeshift group we had Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enlightener Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Something I've been telling anyone who will listen in person is I believe Chan Gailey is a good offensive coordinator but a mismatch for the Jets personnel. NYJ have a limited quarterback, a big bruising HB who I love in Ivory, a pretty good offensive line, a blocking TE, and big physical wide receivers. This is a team built for run sets and power plays, and then to work the passing game off of the run via play action. In other words, a team built for Greg Roman. Instead, Gailey is lining up in the spread, which doesn't suit their halfback's style and doesn't take advantage of their O-line, and Fitz has thrown too many passes in some games. Contrast this with the Bills. An explosive quarterback with both arm and legs. A ridiculously shifty, but smaller HB. Athletic matchup nightmare TE. Two quick matchup nightmare WRs in Watkins and Harvin, and another strong all around receiver in Woods. Could the Bills make better use of all these weapons by lining up in the spread more? Giving McCoy more space to shake n bake with, giving Taylor more room to move as well, and using our strong athleticism as the engine of the offense. It seems like instead, we're trying to force our O-line to be the engine. I offer no stats but we seem to be running the ball on 1st down quite a bit. In this league, in order to be a team that lines up in run sets and runs first to set up the pass, you will need to run successfully at times even when the defense lines up to stop the run. We don't have the offensive line G-Ro had out in the bay, yet we seem to be proceeding as if we do. Against soft defenses like the Colts and Dolphins it's one thing- against active defenses like NE* and the Giants we wasted the whole 1st half failing to run, put ourselves in a hole, then opened it up and started scoring too little too late. Power running just doesn't seem to make the offense's greatest strengths the focal point of the attack. I say spread the D out, use to the fullest our athleticism at WR/TE and give Taylor and McCoy more room to operate in the run game. This de-emphasizes our mediocre-to-crappy offensive line while emphasizing our superior players at other positions. Really I want to hear your thoughts though. Go Bills. very good post, i hardly ever say this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 The Bills line up 3 WRs a lot it seems, so I don't think they're too compact. The passing game was a bit off in the first half if the Giants game. I don't think passing more is a good answer for that. This system fits Tyrod the same way it fit Kaepernick. The offense is putting up pretty good numbers, aren't they? The offesne is able to move the ball up and down...If they can avoid the terrible mistakes, they will be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 We don't have a good enough OLine and RaBs to play ground 'n pound without McCoy. This offense has done best when utilizing the vertical passing game. Stop fooling around and let Hotrod throw the football, especially against the worst pass D in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-8 Forever? Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Something I've been telling anyone who will listen in person is I believe Chan Gailey is a good offensive coordinator but a mismatch for the Jets personnel. NYJ have a limited quarterback, a big bruising HB who I love in Ivory, a pretty good offensive line, a blocking TE, and big physical wide receivers. This is a team built for run sets and power plays, and then to work the passing game off of the run via play action. In other words, a team built for Greg Roman. Instead, Gailey is lining up in the spread, which doesn't suit their halfback's style and doesn't take advantage of their O-line, and Fitz has thrown too many passes in some games. Contrast this with the Bills. An explosive quarterback with both arm and legs. A ridiculously shifty, but smaller HB. Athletic matchup nightmare TE. Two quick matchup nightmare WRs in Watkins and Harvin, and another strong all around receiver in Woods. Could the Bills make better use of all these weapons by lining up in the spread more? Giving McCoy more space to shake n bake with, giving Taylor more room to move as well, and using our strong athleticism as the engine of the offense. It seems like instead, we're trying to force our O-line to be the engine. I offer no stats but we seem to be running the ball on 1st down quite a bit. In this league, in order to be a team that lines up in run sets and runs first to set up the pass, you will need to run successfully at times even when the defense lines up to stop the run. We don't have the offensive line G-Ro had out in the bay, yet we seem to be proceeding as if we do. Against soft defenses like the Colts and Dolphins it's one thing- against active defenses like NE* and the Giants we wasted the whole 1st half failing to run, put ourselves in a hole, then opened it up and started scoring too little too late. Power running just doesn't seem to make the offense's greatest strengths the focal point of the attack. I say spread the D out, use to the fullest our athleticism at WR/TE and give Taylor and McCoy more room to operate in the run game. This de-emphasizes our mediocre-to-crappy offensive line while emphasizing our superior players at other positions. Really I want to hear your thoughts though. Go Bills. miller and glenn being out the whole first half was a killer. hopefully the O Line is full strength this week. need it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 This is a case of the eyeball test versus statistics. - Statistics show that the Bills are scoring pretty well. - The eyeball says there are too many ineffective runs up the middle. I believe the truth to be somewhere in between. Too many ineffective runs up the middle early in games before shifting to more of a spread offense. At least that is what seemed to be the case in the two losses. A running game is great when it works because it keeps your defense/the other offense off the field. But if you don't get first downs, then relying on the running game becomes a liability. What I don't like is the "run, run, pass, punt" series of events. If you run twice with little gain, then everyone knows you will pass on third down. The defense knows what to expect. The fact that there were so few passes on first or second downs early in the game was getting me to yell at the TV. And from the reaction in the TBD shoutbox, I wasn't the only one. Tyrod didn't have a good half but we didn't make it any easier on him with all the 3rd and longs. Give him a chance and throw it more on 1st down, too many weapons to be depending on our O-line so much. is TT allowed to check out of plays yet? awesome reply. you just earned credibility on my big board!! Easy, still gotta increase my eye speed.We don't have a good enough OLine and RaBs to play ground 'n pound without McCoy. This offense has done best when utilizing the vertical passing game. Stop fooling around and let Hotrod throw the football, especially against the worst pass D in the NFL.yes sir!very good post, i hardly ever say this.thanks. Go Bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 It's a bit of a paradox though.... as talent is lost to injury the team gets less good. If Brady and Gronk go out are the pats still as "good"? Gronk, out, team good, Tainted Tom out, probable. but they are the Cheatriots so all bets are off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 very good post, i hardly ever say this. It's true , he hardly ever does.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 (edited) The offesne is able to move the ball up and down...If they can avoid the terrible mistakes, they will be fine. a few tweaks IF The offense is able to move the ball up and down the field AND If they can avoid the terrible mistakes, they will be fine. This TOP keeps their offense off of the field and therefore minimizes scoring opportunities. The Bills simply need to keep their drives alive for more than 3 or 4 plays per series. Double that to 6 to 9 plays and things will look better. Edited October 9, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 IF The offense is able to move the ball up and down the field AND If they can avoid the terrible mistakes, they will be fine. This TOP keeps their offense off of the field and therefore minimizes scoring opportunities. I disagree. Our offense needs to score points. You win with points, not TOP. In a fair league I might agree with you. But in the NFL I don't think we should try to win close low scoring games. Because if it's close at the end to a glamour team, mysterious flags WILL fall. If we don't have a big enough cushion we'll lose more than we win. Take the gloves and let Hotrod air it out. Our offense works better doing that anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 (edited) is TT allowed to check out of plays yet? He doesn't need to check out of plays too often because of how the Bills offense operates. The reason Roman wanted Clay is because he is a matchup nightmare for defenses. Combine that with Shady - who is also a matchup problem - and you have an offense that gives a D fits in deciding what personnel to line up. Out of their base two TE set the Bills can line up and run power if the D goes with a nickel or they can spread the D out with Shady and Clay out wide and make LBs cover these guys if they go with a base D. The reason the Bills run so often on first down is because the D is dictating it by going with their nickel. Even when the D goes with a base they run it fairly often because they're attempting to stay out of 3rd and longs at which point the matchup problems go away and the D can simply put in a nickel or a dime and play the pass. So to answer the OP's question - no, the Bills run an offense that perfectly suits their personnel. As for the contention that the Jets should run a power O, I disagree there too. They have a powerful runner in Ivory and what better way to utilize his skills than to spread the D out, get lots of small DBs on the field and then make them try and tackle him? It also plays to Fitz's strength, which is the short passing game. This isn't the old 3 yards and a cloud of dust league, lining up 2 TEs, a FB and a HB and trying to cram it down a team's throat doesn't work if you don't have to proper matchups. The Jets would be ramming their heads into a wall if they went that way as they don't have a QB who can back defenses off the LoS with his deep ball. Edited October 9, 2015 by MDH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnwalter Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 i think it does, i have complete faith in g-ro i worry about this problem more on defense with the step back that unit has taken from this season to last with relatively no turnover in personnel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagon Circler Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Totaly agree with the OP. Put Tyrod in the shotgun. Spread the field. Throw 40 times a game. Mix in the run. In other words, Gailey's offense. This is 2015. It's a passing league. We don't have Iupati and Anthony Davis. Since third downs are such a problem, avoid them! Throw the ball past the sticks on first and second down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mabden Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Does our offense fit our personnel? Up until last week it did. Kudos to G.Roman for getting that much production out of an offense with 7 new starters who never player together before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted October 9, 2015 Author Share Posted October 9, 2015 (edited) He doesn't need to check out of plays too often because of how the Bills offense operates. The reason Roman wanted Clay is because he is a matchup nightmare for defenses. Combine that with Shady - who is also a matchup problem - and you have an offense that gives a D fits in deciding what personnel to line up. Out of their base two TE set the Bills can line up and run power if the D goes with a nickel or they can spread the D out with Shady and Clay out wide and make LBs cover these guys if they go with a base D. The reason the Bills run so often on first down is because the D is dictating it by going with their nickel. Even when the D goes with a base they run it fairly often because they're attempting to stay out of 3rd and longs at which point the matchup problems go away and the D can simply put in a nickel or a dime and play the pass. So to answer the OP's question - no, the Bills run an offense that perfectly suits their personnel. As for the contention that the Jets should run a power O, I disagree there too. They have a powerful runner in Ivory and what better way to utilize his skills than to spread the D out, get lots of small DBs on the field and then make them try and tackle him? It also plays to Fitz's strength, which is the short passing game. This isn't the old 3 yards and a cloud of dust league, lining up 2 TEs, a FB and a HB and trying to cram it down a team's throat doesn't work if you don't have to proper matchups. The Jets would be ramming their heads into a wall if they went that way as they don't have a QB who can back defenses off the LoS with his deep ball. You seem to be advocating putting Marshall Faulk in a power scheme and Jerome Bettis in a spread offense. When you spread the field in a shotgun it creates a ton of space for a guy like McCoy to pick his own hole, evade one or two tacklers and get off to the races. It also makes the OL's job easier. The Jets offensive line is better equipped to run block in a crowded box than ours is. And power run plays with guards pulling work best with a back who can put his nose down and churn out the extra 2, 3, 4 yards on the end of the run. McCoy is not happy with following the play for 5-6 yards. He'd rather bounce outside and try for the big play, even if it means getting 2 instead of 5. At least I tried, and if I keep trying, I'll pop one eventually, is the mentality. Best off putting him in space and working with him rather than against him. And we have more difficult matchups at WR/TE than the Jets do. This makes our spread formation more effective than theirs. I get that we're trying to run to stay out of third and long but it's had the opposite effect many times, especially against the Giants. Because we can't run block when good defenses play run. Maybe getting into third and short could be accomplished more regularly by using the strength of the roster, the weapons, rather than the weakness of the roster, the O-line. Just one fool's opinion- your perspective is most welcome. Edited October 9, 2015 by Aaron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mabden Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 (edited) The Bills offense has scored 110pts which is the 3rd best in the AFC and 6th in the NFL. I disagree. Our offense needs to score points. You win with points, not TOP. Edited October 9, 2015 by mabden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 You seem to be advocating putting Marshall Faulk in a power scheme and Jerome Bettis in a spread offense. When you spread the field in a shotgun it creates a ton of space for a guy like McCoy to pick his own hole, evade one or two tacklers and get off to the races. It also makes the OL's job easier. The Jets offensive line is better equipped to run block in a crowded box than ours is. And power run plays with guards pulling work best with a back who can put his nose down and churn out the extra 2, 3, 4 yards on the end of the run. McCoy is not happy with following the play for 5-6 yards. He'd rather bounce outside and try for the big play, even if it means getting 2 instead of 5. At least I tried, and if I keep trying, I'll pop one eventually, is the mentality. Best off putting him in space and working with him rather than against him. And we have more difficult matchups at WR/TE than the Jets do. This makes our spread formation more effective than theirs. I get that we're trying to run to stay out of third and long but it's had the opposite effect many times, especially against the Giants. Because we can't run block when good defenses play run. Maybe getting into third and short could be accomplished more regularly by using the strength of the roster, the weapons, rather than the weakness of the roster, the O-line. Just one fool's opinion- your perspective is most welcome. I feel like you're trying to fix something that isn't broken. What's wrong with a run game that's 6th best in the league so far? Teams know the Bills want to run, but they're still successful. It's certainly getting the job done when everyone is healthy. When Incognito is pulling, the Bills might be the best in the league. At least, that was true before the Giants game. You think having Kuoundjio at LT and Urbik, with McCoy and Sammy out doesn't effect the run game? Regarding the passing game, we don't have Aaron Rodgers at QB. Building a game plan that involves Tyrod throwing 45 times is not a good strategy. You seem to be advocating putting Marshall Faulk in a power scheme and Jerome Bettis in a spread offense. We have both Faulk and Bettis on our team. Because they want to be multiple. Power runs, zone reads, spread, whatever. They want to be able to do it all. Like when the Jets had Tomlinson and Greene and FB Richardson in 2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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