FireChan Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 I do. They could have asked a king's ransom for that pick and used that to build a team around Manning. It may not have been what's best 6-10 years out, but it would have been better in the short run. If course, I'm also of the belief that legends of the game carry more value than a cold calculation reflects. They didn't even know if Peyton could play. He had spinal surgery. It wasn't them just moving on because he was old, there was a decent chance his career was over. Have they gotten any further? They have a young error prone QB who would have learned behind Peyton. So YES, the Colts made the wrong decision (in cutting Peyton). WRT salary - what are they paying Luck in base salary on his rookie contract? $1 - $2 Mil a year? I guarantee you $1 billion they win more playoff games with Luck in the next 12 years than Peyton Manning does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted September 25, 2015 Author Share Posted September 25, 2015 But when asked what prevented Manuel from being the No. 2 quarterback just two weeks ago, Roman said, "You know, I think stuff like that needs to stay in house." http://bills.buffalonews.com/2015/09/24/oc-greg-roman-will-keep-reasons-for-cassel-being-the-no-2-before-in-house/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 (edited) Per Spotrac he's right at 5.5M per year for 2012, 2013, 2014, and 2015 Was this before the new rookie salaries were set in place? I thought they capped it so rookies weren't allowed teams to break the bank? They didn't even know if Peyton could play. He had spinal surgery. It wasn't them just moving on because he was old, there was a decent chance his career was over. I guarantee you $1 billion they win more playoff games with Luck in the next 12 years than Peyton Manning does. Nice prediction Nostradamus. Peyton's listed 2016 base salary = $19,000,000 and a cap hit of $21,500,000. Love the way you toss Peyton's accomplishments for the past 3 seasons. Let's throw Drew Brees into that prediction as well. Bum shoulder and a base salary of $19,750,000 as a cap figure. indicated 2016 cap hit $27,400,000. Edited September 25, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Was this before the new rookie salaries were set in place? I thought they capped it so rookies weren't allowed teams to break the bank? After. Luck's deal was 4 years, $22.5M. Bradford's deal was 6 years $78M, $50M guaranteed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Was this before the new rookie salaries were set in place? I thought they capped it so rookies weren't allowed teams to break the bank? Nice prediction Nostradamus. Peyton's listed 2016 base salary = $19,000,000 and a cap hit of $21,500,000. Love the way you toss Peyton's accomplishments for the past 3 seasons. Let's throw Drew Brees into that prediction as well. Bum shoulder and a base salary of $19,750,000 as a cap figure. indicated 2016 cap hit $27,400,000. It was a no brainer, the Colts have a younger cheaper Peyton Manning. And their team sucks. Denver is a really talented team. It worked for all parties involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 (edited) I quoted the exact post... No team is going to give up a QB who's proven they can light it up for one they feel may be able to. So now we're comparing a 26 year old QB to a 35 year old one coming off season ending neck surgery? Didn't the Niners do just that? Wasn't Alex Smith playing well before injury? Didn't they move on to Kaepernick with the expectation that Kaepernick my take them farther than Smith? As far as my trade scenario, isn't Tyrod under contract with the Bills for the next 2 seasons with an option? Aren't there some teams out there they may need a QB? Didn't the Niners trade Alex Smith? I'm not for sure. Enlighten me Edited September 25, 2015 by the skycap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Didn't the Niners do just that? Wasn't Alex Smith playing well before injury? Didn't they move on to Kaepernick with the expectation that Kaepernick my take them farther than Smith? As far as my trade scenario, isn't Tyrod under contract with the Bills for the next 2 seasons with an option? Aren't there some teams out there they may need a QB? I'm not for sure. Enlighten me Alex Smith got injured and Kaep got a chance to prove himself. That is different than Tyrod 'lighting it up' and then the Bills just not wanting to pay him. Tyrod is under contract for this year and next. 2017 voids if he starts half of the games or we make the playoffs if I'm not mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Alex Smith got injured and Kaep got a chance to prove himself. That is different than Tyrod 'lighting it up' and then the Bills just not wanting to pay him. Tyrod is under contract for this year and next. 2017 voids if he starts half of the games or we make the playoffs if I'm not mistaken. Didn't the Niners trade Smith. I believe they got 5 draft picks. Just sayin, business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Didn't the Niners trade Smith. I believe they got 5 draft picks. Just sayin, business. Again, if Tyrod were to get injured, and EJ were to prove that there was little to no drop off, it would be a different story. Also, they got a 2nd round pick and a conditional pick the year after. They traded some of those picks to turn them into others, but no, they did not get 5 picks in the trade itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Again, if Tyrod were to get injured, and EJ were to prove that there was little to no drop off, it would be a different story. Also, they got a 2nd round pick and a conditional pick the year after. They traded some of those picks to turn them into others, but no, they did not get 5 picks in the trade itself. After watching them perform this preseason, what would you say was the big difference in the 2 QBs? Besides the fact that Tyrod is faster. Just curious of your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 After watching them perform this preseason, what would you say was the big difference in the 2 QBs? Besides the fact that Tyrod is faster. Just curious of your opinion. The problem lies in trying to compare them based just on preseason. That is my opinion. If I had access to coaches film from the practices, offense installs, etc. I'd be much more comfortable giving comparisons in this offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 http://bills.buffalonews.com/2015/09/24/oc-greg-roman-will-keep-reasons-for-cassel-being-the-no-2-before-in-house/ I missed the article, but watched the Roman presser. About 5 min in, he's asked about the trade. He appears very uncomfortable with the whole line of questioning. HIs eyes shift left and right like a man looking for a speedy exit. And yes, then there's that "keep it in house" comment. Still, it seems pretty straightforward to think of explanations without diving back into the "Rogue Whaley Acts Against Coaches" pond along with Sully and now Tyler Dunne. It could be that Roman was against the trade but couldn't muster hard facts to support Cassel > EJ. Maybe Roman wanted to hedge his bets against the possibility Taylor might be a Preseason Warrior who would crumble in the regular season, after 2 games one with a QB who fought back and didn't let adversity ruffle him, Roman's comfort level has increased. Maybe Cassel, who per Brady (!!) is hyper-competitive, said something that was considered over-the-top in the QB room on Monday so buh-bye. Maybe Cassel told them his dignity level was #2 and if he slipped to #3 he wanted out. Who knows? But the coach-vs-GM makes a better storyline I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayoffsPlease Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 Didn't the Niners trade Smith. I believe they got 5 draft picks. Just sayin, business. Two draft picks: The 49ers dealt Alex Smith to the Chiefs on February 27, 2013, in exchange for a 2013 second round pick, and a 2014 conditional third round draft pick. The conditional pick upgraded to a second round pick when the Chiefs exceeded the eight win mark this past season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 (edited) I don't really care, because even if EJ ends up continuing to be a coach-killer, I'd rather see him at #2 than Cassel right now, so I'm cool with the move... but I will say this. Sully has a track record of being almost always RIGHT, while Sully's biggest detractors have a history throughout this board of being almost always WRONG. Is Sully's take correct here? Certainly possible. Edited September 26, 2015 by Rico Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie's Dead Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 The Bills as an organization have handled Cassel in a very odd way. First the cut and re-signing, which looked OK and saved a few bucks. Strange, but it made some $$ and sense, so we understood it. But this trade to Dallas is a real head-scratcher for me. The more I think about it, the more I wonder why we only moved up two rounds in the 2017 draft, from 7th to 5th, and gave back Cassel and our 7th in return. We had the Cowboys over a treestump, and we let 'em off the hook. So now, we're back to 2013, where if both TT and EJ go down, we got NOTHING behind them. Cassel right now is worth more to the Bills than a 5th round pick 2 years from now. This deal just doesn't have the wow factor for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted September 26, 2015 Author Share Posted September 26, 2015 (edited) The Bills as an organization have handled Cassel in a very odd way. First the cut and re-signing, which looked OK and saved a few bucks. Strange, but it made some $$ and sense, so we understood it. But this trade to Dallas is a real head-scratcher for me. The more I think about it, the more I wonder why we only moved up two rounds in the 2017 draft, from 7th to 5th, and gave back Cassel and our 7th in return. We had the Cowboys over a treestump, and we let 'em off the hook. So now, we're back to 2013, where if both TT and EJ go down, we got NOTHING behind them. Cassel right now is worth more to the Bills than a 5th round pick 2 years from now. This deal just doesn't have the wow factor for me. most teams don't carry 3 QBs on the 53. They carry 2, with one on the PS. Why would the Bills be different? I don't agree that it is back to 2013. That team had two rookies at QB. A vet backup was needed behind EJ, and Tuel should have been on PS. They intended to have a vet backup in Kolb, but he got hurt. So not really the same. Edited September 26, 2015 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie's Dead Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 most teams don't carry 3 QBs on the 53. They carry 2, with one on the PS. Why would the Bills be different? I don't agree that it is back to 2013. That team had two rookies at QB. A vet backup was needed behind EJ, and Tuel should have been on PS. They intended to have a vet backup in Kolb, but he got hurt. So not really the same. So if TT goes down, we veteran dumpster dive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JESSEFEFFER Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 So if TT goes down, we veteran dumpster dive? Christian Ponder? There is evidence to suggest that the Bills liked him in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 The Bills as an organization have handled Cassel in a very odd way. First the cut and re-signing, which looked OK and saved a few bucks. Strange, but it made some $$ and sense, so we understood it. But this trade to Dallas is a real head-scratcher for me. The more I think about it, the more I wonder why we only moved up two rounds in the 2017 draft, from 7th to 5th, and gave back Cassel and our 7th in return. We had the Cowboys over a treestump, and we let 'em off the hook. So now, we're back to 2013, where if both TT and EJ go down, we got NOTHING behind them. Cassel right now is worth more to the Bills than a 5th round pick 2 years from now. This deal just doesn't have the wow factor for me. Why is it assumed the Bills had the Cowboys "over a tree stump" as you put it? Being a GM isn't a simple as "we have a player you want, give us a higher draft pick." It's very possible when the Cowboys came calling Whaley asked for a higher draft pick, the Cowboys could have easily said no. They tried out Flynn and I'm sure there were other teams the Cowboys called about their backup QB. The Bills didn't have the Cowboys over a tree stump. Time becomes a factor in these discussions, the Cowboys need a decision from the Bills or they will go elsewhere. And Cassel is not worth more now to the Bills. As Roman said in and interview after they resigned Cassel, "He's a good QB to come in and finish a game...". Cassel was never going to be a long term starter if Taylor went down, he was going to be the guy who finished the game if Taylor went down. That's how the Bills saw him, a steady hand for that one game. The Bills obviously didn't think much of Cassel or they wouldn't have cut him in the first place. They wouldn't take that a massive risk like that if they really wanted Cassel as the back up. When he couldn't find another team and was willing to take a massive pay cut the Bills figured he might help them a little but you don't cut a player and hope you are able to resign him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted September 26, 2015 Author Share Posted September 26, 2015 (edited) So if TT goes down, we veteran dumpster dive?why would they need a veteran? If Taylor gets hurt, EJ goes in. Again, why do most teams not carry 3 QBs? Is there some reason the Bills need to go against the grain? It's a waste of a roster spot. And most 3rd QBs suck anyway. They would need to sign a guy possibly if TT went out for any length of time, but the likelihood of him ever playing is low. Having to keep 3 QBs looks like you don't really have confidence in the first 2. Edited September 26, 2015 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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