The Big Cat Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 I dunno. 7 years is a long run. But I think you're conflating the opposing argument. Is anyone making it about draft position? Or importance of a sustained rush attack? This is based on the jboy's claim that smaller defenders populating units to counter aerial attacks will now make for schemes vulnerable to bruising rushers. I'm not sure what draft position says to refute that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg F Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 (edited) I could not disagree more and the stats do too. The top passing QB for yards last year was Brees at 4,952 the 15th QB was Wilson at 3,475 The top yards RB last year was Murray at 1,845 the 15th RB was Joique Bell at 860 You don't see a bigger drop in they type of player you get? Those stats don't mean crap. Brees threw 659 passes last year, Wilson only threw 452. That is a difference of 207, almost 13 more attempts per game. And Wilson's average per attempt was 2 tenths of a yard higher than Brees. Murray may have had the most yards but on yards per attempt (4.7) he was behind Justin Forsett (5.4), Jeremy Hill (5.1), Lamar Miller (5.1), Jamaal Charles (5.0), and Arian Foster (4.8). Edited September 9, 2015 by Greg F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Those stats don't mean crap. Brees threw 659 passes last year, Wilson only threw 452. That is a difference of 207, almost 13 more attempts per game. And Wilson's average per attempt was 2 tenths of a yard higher than Brees. Murray may have had the most yards but on yards per attempt (4.7) he was behind Justin Forsett (5.4), Jeremy Hill (5.1), Lamar Miller (5.1), Jamaal Charles (5.0), and Arian Foster (4.8). Yet wouldn't Wilson's low-volume of passes justify bringing his team into an argument about the rise of a rush attack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 But I think you're conflating the opposing argument. Is anyone making it about draft position? Or importance of a sustained rush attack? This is based on the jboy's claim that smaller defenders populating units to counter aerial attacks will now make for schemes vulnerable to bruising rushers. I'm not sure what draft position says to refute that. Dave McBride's posted pointed to why the perception changed. Atfer AP and Lynch, 1st round RBs just weren't getting it done lately. Well, the 2nd round picks from the past couple of drafts were getting it done, so in 2015...RB drafted at #10 again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 (edited) But I think you're conflating the opposing argument. Is anyone making it about draft position? Or importance of a sustained rush attack? This is based on the jboy's claim that smaller defenders populating units to counter aerial attacks will now make for schemes vulnerable to bruising rushers. I'm not sure what draft position says to refute that. It's a side discussion meant to address the argument that the running game will supplant the passing game. I don't believe for a second that this will happen regardless of the quality of the QBs, and I think teams that have bought high in the RB draft market don't have much to show for it. That's not to say that RBs should never be taken in the first round. Since 2008, though, the record ain't great. Maybe Gurley and Gordon will have success. Edited September 9, 2015 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 It's a side discussion meant to address the argument that the running game will supplant the passing game. I don't believe for a second that this will happen regardless of the quality of the QBs, and I think teams that have bought high in the RB draft market don't have much to show for it. That's not to say that RBs should never be taken in the first round. Since 2008, though, the record ain't great. Maybe Gurley and Gordon will have success. I thought the argument was that RBs are becoming increasingly valuable to teams without an elite QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 I thought the argument was that RBs are becoming increasingly valuable to teams without an elite QB? That's not my argument! If you see what I say above, you'll see that I think that it's impossible to have a good offense with a mediocre to bad qb no matter how good the RB is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg F Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 (edited) Yet wouldn't Wilson's low-volume of passes justify bringing his team into an argument about the rise of a rush attack? Perhaps. The Saints were second in attempts (by 2) just behind the Colts. The Seahawks were dead last in the league. Don't think that comparison would make a good argument. Edited September 9, 2015 by Greg F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djp14150 Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 I cant read the article but in reading posts on here.... the problem is the league is a win now because teams feel their team can turn it around and make the playoffs so there has been a rush to through a QB in there rather than let him develop. Development takes time. RBs for years has bee a dime a dozen. You can find a a just as good RB in the 3rd or 4th as you could a 1st. There will always be a rare exception or two like AP in the league that is special. After those 3-5 there isn't much out there. Statistically it doesn't make that much of a difference to have 1 top RB or 2 very capable RBs. Remember Aaron Rodgers for a 1st round pick who sat on the sidelines for 4 seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 That's not my argument! If you see what I say above, you'll see that I think that it's impossible to have a good offense with a mediocre to bad qb no matter how good the RB is. Alright, yeah. Team's need a good QB to be great, regardless of any other position. I agree with that. The value of QBs does not fluctuate much, if at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 You can make the same claim for every position. There are plenty of top of the draft qbs, OTs, CBs, DL, receivers etc who don't justify their draft position. Sure, there are plenty of busts at all positions, but my point is that RBs taken in round 1 rarely justify their draft positions. One of the best indicators of this is that these RBs are seldom signed to another contact by the teams that drafted them. I don't think that's nearly as true at the other positions you mention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forward Progress Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 After reading this this article, it's clear what we need to do... We need to find a QB who has been learning his trade as a backup behind an established starting QB, like Rodgers did behind Favre and Young behind Montana - ideally about 4 years. The perfect scenario would be behind a Super Bowl winning QB. Aw shucks, we will never find a QB with that kind of start in the NFL to be our QB. It's just a pipe dream, I guess. FP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Those stats don't mean crap. Brees threw 659 passes last year, Wilson only threw 452. That is a difference of 207, almost 13 more attempts per game. And Wilson's average per attempt was 2 tenths of a yard higher than Brees. Murray may have had the most yards but on yards per attempt (4.7) he was behind Justin Forsett (5.4), Jeremy Hill (5.1), Lamar Miller (5.1), Jamaal Charles (5.0), and Arian Foster (4.8). How does this prove RB's are a dime a dozen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg F Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 How does this prove RB's are a dime a dozen? It doesn't. It wasn't the purpose of the post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah John Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 When Rodgers was sitting for four years watching Favre, did anyone call him a bust? Probably no one cared what Rodgers could or couldn't do, since Favre was still so good. It's not fair to compare anyone to Rodgers, who I think is the best QB in the game, but what EJ has been going through, competing for playing time and getting opportunities from time to time, is probably better preparation than Rodgers had. That's not to suggest EJ will turn out better than Rodgers, but that there's no reason to write him off now. For all I know, TT will turn out great, and EJ will never get off the bench. That would be OK with me because it would mean the Bills are winning. TT has already done his four year internship, sitting behind Flacco, so maybe he'll come into his own this year. If not, it could be because he doesn't have a complete game. For one thing, he's only 6 feet tall, pretty short for an NFL QB. But if TT can't win with this defense, playing behind an acceptable O line and with excellent skill position players, maybe he'll never win. It might be possible that EJ's first year of excellence will be next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Romes Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 If I were a B grade college program why not install a totally complicated pro style offense. Then you could recruit the best QBs to go there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 I've always felt the problem QB's are having is the game has become too fast, and players too big for the QB's to keep up, but maybe it's also way too much of the "whatever dude" generation. I've said this before and I'll state it again now, we need Stepford QB's. The NFL needs to develop a program around this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Great read! http://www.wsj.com/articles/why-the-nfl-has-a-quarterback-crisis-1441819454 They won't go extinct because the few that excel will keep the pro style QBs going, However the Spread option is ruining QBs entering the League. The NFL is the richest League in America (maybe the world, probably soccer though) They seriously need a minor League were each team has a farm club were players can learn the pro game, especially QBs. This is why I hope we get Connor Cook; plays in prostyle multiple offense and would fit right in with Roman on top of having the skills to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRT88 Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 NFL needs to create a spring developmental league at the very least with maybe 8 to 12 teams, in USA in smaller markets, playing about 10 games. Other leagues have a minor league system. Maybe creating a full minor league system, where each team has a developmental roster playing games on Saturdays in small venues around the country would be better, Teams could call players up and send them back down. Practice squads are nice but having a full roster of 45 other players playing in the minors would allow teams greater opportunities to fully develop players. You put rules into place which would prevent other teams from stealing your developmental players but also protect a player opportunity to play in the show. If the league doesn't starting thinking differently, they will eventually run into a true QB crisis. They have a disturbing trend now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billzfan37 Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Great read! http://www.wsj.com/articles/why-the-nfl-has-a-quarterback-crisis-1441819454 That's why it makes the MOST sense to spend money on a pass rush. If you don't have one of the 1-8 QB's in the league, you better be able to pressure theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts